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Author Topic:   Water Mars and Neptune-Mars for fire/water Suns
dragonflies
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posted April 09, 2020 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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implosions
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posted April 09, 2020 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for implosions     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've got a water sun and air mars -- but I have a mars-neptune aspect going on (inconjunct) very tightly. I've also got lots of observance of other mars signs! My mars is retrograde.

Mars is typically the HOW of self expression (venus is the why, sun is the what and mercury is also a flavour of how), and if the elemental flow is wonky, that can make for some frustrating styles of expression. I think for a watery mars and a fire sun, there can be a, well, watered down version of the self being expressed out (depending on the type of water, too; cancer mars would be passive aggressive, especially with a fire sun, scorpio would be more direct but probably wildly intensely controlled, and pisces sun would probably struggle the most, since it would want to diffuse the fire energy or try to mimic it in a more empathic way-- pisces might be a bit more manipulative to get the situation in their favour).

The thing with mars though is, it's still our choice to express; the element is just what we're prone to/used to/grew up learning to express like. We can still consciously choose to be more direct or confrontational- it just feels weird (at first) because it's essentially out of our comfort zones.

I can attest to the weirdness of elemental mis-match, too. I have a LOT of water and not a lot of fire in my chart (even though I have a fire rising and jupiter- both of which aspect my air mars). I tend to over-intellectualise or chatter box my emotions or expression and have a harder time actually emoting when I'm FEELING the emotion. Which is often times just silly and DEFINITELY just a bad habit I've had for most of my life. I had TONS of repression and was shamed and punished for showing any form of anger- which often came about after my endless debates to prove my emotions real Gemini habits.

But Fire Suns thrive on the passionate expression of self, of DOING rather than waiting to feel things out-- which is a more watery trait. Water needs PATIENCE to really feel what it's feeling, before expression happens. With a Fire Sun, it's likely there's an impatient urge to just say it or feel it or do it! Get it over with! Be direct! But water needs time, needs space to validate the emotion. Same goes for a Mars; it needs time to express itself, on it's own terms. And respected to do so! If a water mars has been rejected or shamed into repressing itself-- first of all, how entirely awful. Second of all, I would strongly suggest just giving yourself lots of space and allowance to just feel what you're feeling, when you're feeling it, and screw anyone who demands it be expressed another way, if at all. Your expression is in tune with you at the core of it!

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dragonflies
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posted April 10, 2020 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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implosions
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posted April 10, 2020 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for implosions     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dragonflies:
@implosions
Thank you so much for your words! I don't really know what to say. I mean I have a lot of things on the tip of my tongue, but I guess I'd be going too far over-board with it. I feel like you could be a good therapist.

Do you really think that the element is only the way we 'learned' to approach the expression of a certain planet's energy?
I've realised I'm judgmental of some forms of watery expressions and I think I censor myself a lot, because I don't like these things about myself. And they seem to go against who I am.
I sound like a crybaby (I am a crybaby) but I find it really tough to integrate these character traits as I seem to have separated them so strongly from what I perceive to be me. I guess that's why I'm looking into water. Whatever that means.
I'm going into week five of national lock down, can't do anything, and I'm starting to look into Mars...


I mean, I thought my post was a bit over-board so I'm probably not one to judge.

I think, hm... The element is maybe the style of expression we learned was most productive growing up. The sign as well, but the element is usually more along the lines of what type; fire = dynamic, water = empathic, air = cerebral, earth = progressional. All water mars types I know get really in their feels whether they often like it or not! Especially when sad or angry, as those are the most turbulent to deal with empathically. Water is also a bit of a sponge style, so it can be hard to manage when other people are emotional as well.

Mars is an excellent placement to look into! Especially because Mercury is just moving back into Aries, and finally leaving the shadow of the previous retrograde. Eeeeeeexcellent timing!

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Randall
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posted April 11, 2020 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome!

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teasel
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posted April 11, 2020 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm a Fire sun with Water mars. I'll try to remember to come back. Mine rules my Sun, and co-rules my ascendant.

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dragonflies
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posted April 12, 2020 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Welcome!

Thank you!

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dragonflies
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posted April 12, 2020 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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dragonflies
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posted April 12, 2020 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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implosions
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posted April 12, 2020 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for implosions     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dragonflies:
Could mars show how I was allowed to move in my family? A direct and for a fire person natural movement was frowned upon as confrontational and disrespectful, so I was forced to come at it in emotional terms? I don't know, I'm freestyling here...

I think that sounds right! Keep in mind as well, even someone with the same placements as you will have had a different experience (although perhaps similar in some ways) to how you grew up. Fire suns can often get flack for being 'too direct' in a more subdued cultural or familial setting- or praised for it. It depends on the family and people. But I do typically see a water mars having the upper hand in that they CAN project and tag into the emotional realm that appeals to others. There's only one water-mars in my immediate family, and they often got the upper hand in situations because they could control their emotional expression like it was nothing! Although, it was a lot of unconscious manipulating of the situation, rather than actually being honest with the whole.


quote:
Originally posted by dragonflies:
So how does one integrate? And fast! I'm kidding.
What have been your lessons with an air mars when your natural expression would be watery? What do I have all this fire for when it gets drowned by a water mars and Neptune all over my ass? Do you feel that there is logic behind a mars that does not support the sun's expression? What's to learn (that I didn't learn as a child)?
I think that you can integrate more easily when you have other element placements because there would be a balance.


I think with the personal planets, they are already pretty integrated. The trick is just being more conscious/aware of when you're expressing yourself, and whether it's honest to what you truly want to express. Of course, environment can play a hand, but if you're an adult, you should be able to own your own expression and self in that way.

In my case, with an air mars- I may be lucky in that my Moon is also air moon, so my emotions move as quickly as my expression does. I bounce back a lot quicker from some emotions than a typical water sign might, plus I prefer to keep things 'light' and silly rather than too dark and intense. I can get spooked or feel a bit suffocated if I can't come up for air often enough- so to speak.

Sun sign as well is a lot to do with the solar self, the personality and ego of a person. Emotional needs are very important, but they will wax and wane as the moon does. The sense of self, the Sun, is where we are consciously ourselves, choosing how to be and what to express to be our most authentic selves. Mars will always support the sun, by nature of it just being a part of us. And a water mars expressing a fire sun isn't 'wrong' or bad or backwards either. It may just be that you're here to express the fiery energy in a more empathic way, so that people can relate and understand better where they may not understand a fire energy. Neptune in aspect to the Sun as well- or also to Mars, can be like saying you're tapped into your generation, knowing what you need to just BE in order to further bring your ideal world into real life. In that case, having a Water Mars is a boost, because it helps you relate that enery more easily to others on a deeper level. (Water is inherently emotions and core connectiveness between everyone on a deep, unconscious level-- we all came from water, to start).

And sure, the trick is looking at your chart as a whole, seeing how all the aspects work together and bounce off each other- hard aspects aren't inherently bad either, they're more challenging areas because those areas need the most work and strength building to be their best selves.

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