posted April 18, 2020 07:18 AM            

We for instance change/relax our dating "preferences" & tastes the more we grow i.e. we become less obsessed with "perfection" but more drawn to consistency etc.

For instance,I do see how the 5th house can be giddy "puppy" love. The kind of lover we crush on and dream to have a whirlwind romantic affair with.

The 7th house being the 1st time long-term relationship or marriage. Expectations are high here and though romance is not as important as partnership obligations etc. It certainly helps to have it in high supply to keep yourself happy.

9th house has less demands on being each other's "mirrors".Its not so important that you be mirror reflections of each other. But common beliefs/morals or common shared overall outlook is necessary.

Looks/sex appeal criteria evolve here in the 9th house.Partnership evolution happens as you look at other people more 'holistically' and mot just as reflections of YOU.The definition of "sexy" changes.

Then you get the 11th house of friendship/ companionship based off on liking each other as human beings("faulty" as you think you are)and accepting each other "as is".

This is what the world is actually looking for; friendship and empathy shared between each other. Free from passionate jealousy or expectations of what either of you "should" be or how you "should" think etc.

posted April 18, 2020 07:29 AM            

Now in high school,this dude was a "jock" with every girl throwing themselves at him.And he used to be so cocky/arrogant- even going as far as to say racist things like he wouldn't touch a black woman with a ten inch pole.🤷🏿‍♂️

I went to a school that was predominantly white.And so i was seldom aware of racism towards my race because i had kind of "numbed" myself to it.

But it was around matriculation year that I got a strong "activist" outlook-Saturn in Gem was opp natal Jup in Sag at the time. I was defiant. I channelled MalcolmX😎

Now years later,this same guy who voiced those sentiments has been married twice, has three children by the very black woman he swore he wouldn't touch.

People change and evolve.I get that.But i wondered if his wife was aware of who he was?Whether he had earnestly "changed" and thus his nature was not the same?

Perhaps the pressure of conformance had him voice those sentiments to suppress what was truly not shared by his heart? I will never know.🤷🏿‍♂️

All i know is that he seemed genuinely besotted with his wife and their children. And this image i saw is a stark contrast to the kind of woman i thought he'd end up with(given the views he had).

posted April 18, 2020 10:11 AM            

I would say that I decidedly evolved but in now way has it touched my preferences strictly speaking, I’ve just gotten way better at seeing when they are here for real and when I just fantasise them lol. I think skin/social preferences are a lot of nurture, the kind that’s hard to overcome (I mean who says your jock even ever had those views, he may have simply voiced them out of habit or mimicking tendency, it’s another possibility) and I was brought up in a multicultural/multi-social environment so I didn’t see those as foreign or inaccessible. I was brutally confronted with the reality that some people only date in a pre-determined pond when I got to university (would have been way sooner but bullying made me socially inactive through middle and high school).
The fact people incorporate skin colour, income and such in their criteria list is purely nurture so it would make sense those would evolve if and as your nurture evolves. If you are blessed with feeling adequate in your original environment and follow a well beaten track, there are no reason for your to outgrow your nurture state as it blended well with your nature. But if your nature contradicted it or life simply threw you one or several challenge, then it opens the questions box and the end result may be a shift in adherence to your nurture values, giving more way to nature and other different preferences developing.
I love the idea of going through the houses for evolution, though I wouldn’t leave the water and earth ones out, on the contrary. First because it makes love end in the 11th as the somehow best or most mature, evolved type of loving and I think the “I married my best friend” is mostly an American fantasy that many other cultures don’t share and live great matures loves without anyway. Not to say Aquarian values aren’t critical and much needed in a mature, healthy relationships but even as you have evolved from your social settings/nurture criteria, the confrontation to society as a couple, all that 10th house business, seems very important because you can’t always just live with your love and never suffer the pressure of your circles, when those clash because your fellows haven’t evolved the way you have, it is something a couple has to go through. I’m a Mars in Scorpio, that should cover why the 8th house and its concerns are critical to me in the evolution of one’s relationship journey.
This is actually one that had made me postpone true commitment without me being aware of it for a long while. Can I, even in full love and trust, really let go of my flat and make the roof over my head dependant on my relationship to someone else? A problem rich people don’t have and so they don’t confront the question, another interesting thing to note as, as humans, we don’t really look for evolution unless pressured to by failure or upsets. Other 8th house matters are very important, you can enlighten yourself all you want if you’re not the open marriage type, you’re not less evolved, it’s just who you are and it’s critical in a relationship. It’s a fair stage of having overcome toxic possessiveness but still being monogamous, it does exist, the idea of progression somehow makes the 9th house orgy ‘better’? lol It irks me you know how I am when irked, I ramble and remain irritated without ever making an actual point, let’s not dwell on it lol
Finally, you can’t stop before the 12th, that’s when the good stuff happens. (My Venus is in the 12th, maybe some bias here 😊 . One you have evolved into this Aquarian openness of spirit and accepts you and your partner with both’s flaws, the next question is: so is it just that? tolerant friendship bathed in universal human love? or is there still romantic love and devotion? That’s where the fish show up. It’s when you reach unconditional love after having been through all the exploration and conditions, that you have gone through your 12 steps (lol).
That’d be my take. As for myself, yep, how I see relationships, what I expect and need from the as well as what I’m willing to give has drastically changed over the years. But the kind of people, not so much, especially not in terms of ethnicity or social background. In fact it’s quite annoying how despite all the men I can look at and have crushes on, those I really fall for all end up having one similar physical trait in common, I do have a type it seems regardless of how much I hate the very idea ^^
I have never been attracted to men from my own ethnicity, others? yep, sure at least once, but my own, never.
Where I do willingly incorporate a social element is after a couple of bad experiences, I do act careful around certain “social successes” as I know depending on how they got there and why, it may reveal some core differences I know can’t be overcome. But out of that, I still fall for the same qualities in men, I just have gotten ridden of the idea criteria mean anything. I don’t want to pick or be picked according to a list, bring me those Aquarian qualities of realistic acceptance, and all that journey to, it’s all about unconditional love 😊

@anon love that, we don’t all begin in the same spot so the journey and where it ends for maximum evolution is quite different.

posted April 18, 2020 10:31 AM            

I count someone of around 5-6 years older as my own age lol, but beyond that, I hope that they don't look too mature, but yeah, many things do come into play, when I'm in the moment, I don't give flying **** about how old they are, or even the damn "legal age boundaries" , but at the same time I do feel there is a thing called "too young" , I don't think same applies to older people tho, I won't mind Sharon Stone for example( nah checked again, I "60% doubt"( Hello GC) I'd be able to overlook it

posted April 18, 2020 11:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Some start from 11th though, the "friend-zone", i mean even in that you do need to accept them as they are..although your love interests might not match..

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I hear you.But I think I meant in terms of "expectations". And that includes love interests not "matching". Because that is npt a deal-breaker for someas it is for others.

The 5th can perhaps be the most demanding of all. If you are not evolved or sorely inexperienced, the expectations from the 5th hpuse oulook can be quite high for the partner.Sort of like the romantic lead in a sweeping paperback novel.

5th house type of romance is less tolerant of clay feet. It is sweeping "stakes are high" love that is all adrenaline pumping and infatuation etc.The stuff of affairs and sexual heat.

I know that for instance my father has Mars/Ven in conj in Leo/Vir respectively. Both conj Pluto in Leo.And he is STILL there in the 5th house outlook.

He has had numerous affairs even after marrying my mother.And some resulting in children.I don't think ge "gets" what "evolved" love is. He is still in House 5 adrenaline pumping romance.This despite tipping 60 🤷🏿‍♂️

Can one say that when a romance starts off from friendship,the nature of the two people bypass the 5th house of expectations?

Well this is according to their respective maturity level and how evolved they are in the viewing if love.

I am recalling Musiq Soulchild's song "Half crazy" here ;

"Never thought that we would ever be more than friends
Now I'm all confused 'cause for you, I have deeper feelings
We both thought it was cool to cross the line
And I was convinced it would be alright
Now things are strange, nothing's the same
And really I just want my friend back."

posted April 18, 2020 11:35 AM            

My parents are both 5th house suns, 5th house composite... their relationship is as immature as they are, no evolution whatsoever in over 50 years: face palm festival ^^

posted April 18, 2020 11:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
Interesting 😊

I would say that I decidedly evolved but in now way has it touched my preferences strictly speaking, I’ve just gotten way better at seeing when they are here for real and when I just fantasise them lol. I think skin/social preferences are a lot of nurture, the kind that’s hard to overcome (I mean who says your jock even ever had those views, he may have simply voiced them out of habit or mimicking tendency, it’s another possibility) and I was brought up in a multicultural/multi-social environment so I didn’t see those as foreign or inaccessible. I was brutally confronted with the reality that some people only date in a pre-determined pond when I got to university (would have been way sooner but bullying made me socially inactive through middle and high school).
The fact people incorporate skin colour, income and such in their criteria list is purely nurture so it would make sense those would evolve if and as your nurture evolves. If you are blessed with feeling adequate in your original environment and follow a well beaten track, there are no reason for your to outgrow your nurture state as it blended well with your nature. But if your nature contradicted it or life simply threw you one or several challenge, then it opens the questions box and the end result may be a shift in adherence to your nurture values, giving more way to nature and other different preferences developing.
I love the idea of going through the houses for evolution, though I wouldn’t leave the water and earth ones out, on the contrary. First because it makes love end in the 11th as the somehow best or most mature, evolved type of loving and I think the “I married my best friend” is mostly an American fantasy that many other cultures don’t share and live great matures loves without anyway. Not to say Aquarian values aren’t critical and much needed in a mature, healthy relationships but even as you have evolved from your social settings/nurture criteria, the confrontation to society as a couple, all that 10th house business, seems very important because you can’t always just live with your love and never suffer the pressure of your circles, when those clash because your fellows haven’t evolved the way you have, it is something a couple has to go through. I’m a Mars in Scorpio, that should cover why the 8th house and its concerns are critical to me in the evolution of one’s relationship journey.
This is actually one that had made me postpone true commitment without me being aware of it for a long while. Can I, even in full love and trust, really let go of my flat and make the roof over my head dependant on my relationship to someone else? A problem rich people don’t have and so they don’t confront the question, another interesting thing to note as, as humans, we don’t really look for evolution unless pressured to by failure or upsets. Other 8th house matters are very important, you can enlighten yourself all you want if you’re not the open marriage type, you’re not less evolved, it’s just who you are and it’s critical in a relationship. It’s a fair stage of having overcome toxic possessiveness but still being monogamous, it does exist, the idea of progression somehow makes the 9th house orgy ‘better’? lol It irks me you know how I am when irked, I ramble and remain irritated without ever making an actual point, let’s not dwell on it lol
Finally, you can’t stop before the 12th, that’s when the good stuff happens. (My Venus is in the 12th, maybe some bias here 😊 . One you have evolved into this Aquarian openness of spirit and accepts you and your partner with both’s flaws, the next question is: so is it just that? tolerant friendship bathed in universal human love? or is there still romantic love and devotion? That’s where the fish show up. It’s when you reach unconditional love after having been through all the exploration and conditions, that you have gone through your 12 steps (lol).
That’d be my take. As for myself, yep, how I see relationships, what I expect and need from the as well as what I’m willing to give has drastically changed over the years. But the kind of people, not so much, especially not in terms of ethnicity or social background. In fact it’s quite annoying how despite all the men I can look at and have crushes on, those I really fall for all end up having one similar physical trait in common, I do have a type it seems regardless of how much I hate the very idea ^^
I have never been attracted to men from my own ethnicity, others? yep, sure at least once, but my own, never.
Where I do willingly incorporate a social element is after a couple of bad experiences, I do act careful around certain “social successes” as I know depending on how they got there and why, it may reveal some core differences I know can’t be overcome. But out of that, I still fall for the same qualities in men, I just have gotten ridden of the idea criteria mean anything. I don’t want to pick or be picked according to a list, bring me those Aquarian qualities of realistic acceptance, and all that journey to, it’s all about unconditional love :blueheart: 😊

@anon love that, we don’t all begin in the same spot so the journey and where it ends for maximum evolution is quite different.

Also, unless there's a problem, I'd say we all evolve to look at older and older people, except for Di Caprio, but I did leave fudge room for a problem

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This was profound 👌. So much to ponder.

I think I took 5th to 11th as based on the romance (5th),1st marriage(7th), 2nd(9th) and 3rd(11th) etc.

I never actually thought of including the 8th house of intimacy/the 10th house of publicity/the 12th house of all encompassing love etc.And perhaps also we should not forget the 6th house of "helpful" love or assisting someone.

I see the 7th as encompassing the 6th. In that there shared duty.Shared love of the responsibility of taking care of each other(Ven)

When one gets married or "evolves" the idea of dating to commitment, the idea is that they will assist& help each other. Promise to "honor & obey" each other etc. The "promise" in a public way is the 7th.

The 9th house would encompass the 8th in that one feels more intimately bonded with another through the knowledge that the former is wise and "sees all" of the latter.

We open up more readily to people about personal stuff & trust them (8th) more easily if we seem them as wise/non judgemental i.e a Priest in confession, an educated marriage counselor etc.

There is something about the 9th house perspective of love that has a "don't sweat the small stuff" ring to it. And intimacy issues are part in parcel of that.

In that if they are examined from the optimistic 9th house, they are seen as "surmountable". People with 9th house pov of love or have evolved there dont see cheating as the deal breaker.

They tend to want to still salvage thr relationship and are optimistic about turning rhimgs around (pwehaps admittedly there is Jupiter blind faith here too).

The 11th house would encompass the 10th house of publicity. In that when love has evolved to the 11th house perspective, ones reputation/ known past, is not seen as an obstacle to love.

One could have been known as a porn King/Queen. But to the 11th house love perspective, the point of connection is not so much who you WERE.But the bond and affiliation to group/company/cause that you both share NOW.

One here could be indifferent to age,skin colour, background, past marriages etc. Its really about seeing one as a human being who has "lived" and worthy of friendship because of common associations you both share i.e football association, golf club, choir etc.

Uranus is the unusual connection or way in which the association happened. As "out of the ordinary" as this love perspective can be,its also got the potential to "bind" you (Sat co-rules 11th).

posted April 18, 2020 11:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
^ I think its the lack of committment from the 5th rather than wanting friend back, its just you don't wanna marry/committ something, its fun and games you know, yeah its teenage-ish love I reckon, the romantic, sweet talking part, but after a while, like my ex used to say "too much sugar gives diabetes" , well thats a shame :O

I have 5th house Venus, and if we use whole sign I have 5th house stellium too , and I've never quite thot I'd be marrying any of my partners, except one maybe

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posted April 18, 2020 12:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
I agree "too young" isn't necessarily aged based (although I kinda like legal age limits, how about we don't entirely damn them? lol) but there is such a thing and it makes sense it's felt from the older party more, you can't see it when you're the "stooped" one

My parents are both 5th house suns, 5th house composite... their relationship is as immature as they are, no evolution whatsoever in over 50 years: face palm festival ^^

Tis very individual, because of my parents, I have had (still struggle) crazy issues accepting "love a la fifth".
To me love is commitment, responsibilities, compromises, non-shiny but necessary discussion... before it’s magic and soothing each other’s upsets with perfect romantic moments. As a result, I'm strong marriage material in 6/10/11th ways but a very poor if anything able at all date ^^

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My parents have Nep/Ven conj in Scor in composite.The life (Sun)of the relationship is in Libra and squares Saturn. Whilst the soul(Moon) is in Pisces opp Pluto.

I find Plu quite painful in relationships. Unless the two people are highly evolved, the relationship can degenerate to sadomasochism.

posted April 18, 2020 02:11 PM            

I've got South Node in the 5th house, Sun and Venus in the 7th, Juno in the 9th and North Node in the 11th.

posted April 18, 2020 02:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by implosions:
Ohh, I like this thread.

I've got South Node in the 5th house, Sun and Venus in the 7th, Juno in the 9th and North Node in the 11th.

Alllll I want is that beautiful, Aquarian-style friendship with a partner! But oh boy have I been prone to ending up with the other types. Although I gotta say, it's been good practice for learning what definitely is NOT what I need.

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posted April 18, 2020 03:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Do you feel like as you keep on meeting others, you are more tolerant of what in the initial stages of dating was considered "deal breakers"?

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Hmm. Maybe I have been. Most times I don't notice them; I have a tendency to want to nurture bad habits out of people by helping them understand them, perhaps. (I have Ceres/Vertex conjunct the DC exactly trine to the North Node), but usually if the other person doesn't show signs of getting their own behaviour together, I will eventually bounce.

posted April 19, 2020 01:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
I agree "too young" isn't necessarily aged based (although I kinda like legal age limits, how about we don't entirely damn them? lol) but there is such a thing and it makes sense it's felt from the older party more, you can't see it when you're the "stooped" one

My parents are both 5th house suns, 5th house composite... their relationship is as immature as they are, no evolution whatsoever in over 50 years: face palm festival ^^

Tis very individual, because of my parents, I have had (still struggle) crazy issues accepting "love a la fifth".
To me love is commitment, responsibilities, compromises, non-shiny but necessary discussion... before it’s magic and soothing each other’s upsets with perfect romantic moments. As a result, I'm strong marriage material in 6/10/11th ways but a very poor if anything able at all date ^^

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really, I think people shjt all over commitments tho, my SN in 7th is like "really? " *insert some gif here*

quote:

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face palm festival ^^

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posted April 19, 2020 04:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by implosions:
....Maybe I just let people get away with some things A) because I don't notice it at first, and B) because it seems fair if I want someone to let me just be who I am good and bad too

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posted April 19, 2020 04:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
@Aries23Degrees
😊 you too darling, I enjoy the pondering I get from your posts.

I did think of the 6th house but then felt if I open that door, I’m going to cover them all because they essentially all matter anyway… Ultimately I don’t think we just journey through the houses, we also have a room in each we regularly visit
I am completely sold on how you encompass the 6th into the 7th, especially the reality of marriage vows which are impossibly serious to my Virgo sun, it makes a lot of sense.
The 8/9th though a little less lol
I see what you mean but I feel Scorpion trust is not earned that “easily”, I’d see the connection between those two houses as a more business one as 9th does legal documents and 8th runs finances.
I will also die going on record stating that considering cheating as a deal breaker is not unevolved, just to over clarify clarity lol
I agree about not sweating the small stuff, SO important and valuable. I remember a Sagittarius’ wife telling me her husband had taught her to never get to bed angry and that once everyone has yelled, it’s over, we move on. I held so hardcore to that notion, just hearing about it was an amazing lesson for me (I was a bean, probably 14 or something then). I will just never consider sex ‘small stuff’, so I will therefore sweat it, a lot of sweating lol
I’d also argue Pluto wants to open up to someone who will judge, it’s only desired to judge in its favour Intimacy sure benefits from that no big deal-ness but if you start swapping every Thursday, and casually talk about it over brunch, you’re wise and have certainly evolved into a higher state, but of what? Not sure it’s a higher state of ‘intimacy’, which is why I was concerned by the lack of 8th, as much as maturing into and from it are deepening experiences, intimacy also is primeval and raw and its essence shouldn’t be stripped away, not even for the glory of bohemia.
Saying that, I even feel somehow this integration of 8th into 9th reflects this widespread idea that sexual relationships dissolve with time and into marriage. Not the 11th house 60’s stage of deep friendship but rather that 40’s something where classic couples will share more political and philosophical opinions than orgasms.

I think Pluto is equally eager to salvage things, he just has zero manners on how to do that without destroying everything lol

I’m so and so about the 10th into 11th as well in terms of “others”. Of course if you touch Aquarian understanding, you have digested any fickle 10th house business. Here I wasn’t touching the idea of a lover coming to terms with their own feelings/ideas about their partner’s past or present demons, but about the pressures put on a couple if the family/friends/social group of one of the lovers, who they are close with, cannot reconcile with the partner’s demons. This was what I envisioned as a separate, strictly 10th house issue.

I love that you reinstate Uranus energy as binding due to its Saturn linkage. It hurts me so much when people scream instability and break-ups only. Thank you for that rainbow 😊

My parents have a composite Taurus sun square Leo Pluto, my dad is a Pluto square Venus, my mum a Pluto square mercury…. I can’t think of two people as ridiculous as these two. They are SO childish (5th house FTW) in their interactions that I think they truly only have eyes for each other, and it’s the same childishness that makes theirs an awful relationship I pray I never have because I haven’t seen them evolve one bit in my entire life and it’s ridiculous. Sadomasochism is absolutely a word I’d use to qualify their relationship at times. I would never treat anyone I love the way they can treat each other.

I agree with you Pluto is no salt, you don’t use that to shake things up of flesh something out, it’s a responsibility.
And yet… as much as I’d rather die a spinster than have anything resembling my parents’ relationship, I cannot imagine being truly happy in a non-Plutonic relationship, simply because it fits my journey.
I remember reading this description of “ambivalent Virgos” by an astrologer and he said the ambivalent Virgo woman (which I qualify for 100% with mars in Scorpio and Pluto square moon) yearns for passion and enlightenment at once. I have never related more lol I can beat myself for it being some arrogant feeling, but it keeps coming back (and also, the Leo energy in me isn’t the keenest on the project, so… so much for ego ) and I think it’s because I have felt those Plutonian feelings all my life, I have been confronted to their darkest effects very early on, in myself and between my parents and I have dedicated so much time to finding peace with them within myself, to not bring that into a relationship would feel as if I were asked to not wholly be myself. I love Pluto. I love its authenticity, I love its intimacy, I love its devotion and since every energy will come with a shadow, and every relationship will come with work, then this is the work that makes sense to me.
The bug is, even if I ended up being one of those rare highly elevated beings when it comes to Pluto, what are the chances I land another one? ^^

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True. And tbh, I dont know why people are always asking questions geared towards Pluto attachments i.e " We have a strong Pluto chart" or " our love has Pluto themes".

Pluto is FAAAR from romantic. Its heavy going energy not for the feint of heart. And if someone is truly having a Pluto relationship,they don't write about it whilst having it. Its too painful. They only pen the experience after the fact.

When people imagine Pluto as a burning flame that they can "control" by putting water on it now and then, it makes me giggle. Like Pluto is meant for ones "subjugation"?

Pluto is molten active lava-jumping unpredictably this way or the other. It can burn the trees to ashes so NOTHING grows there for YEARS.

And it will also in process, turn one to liquid.Where's the romance in that?

Unless you consider Smeagles consummate obsession with the ring(leading to his fiery demise) "romantic"?

The ring consumed his thoughts, his physical appearance EVERYTHING. And so if you haven't experienced a Pluto connection like that with anyone. You don't know Plutos hellish effect on the psyche.Coz thats how bad it can get.

In my parent's case, I see my Dad as the sadist who is really a masochist forced into that role. My mom is the masochist who will assume no other role🤷🏿‍♂️

He hurts her...deeply.She takes it. He hurts her again. She takes it. And on and on it goes indefinitely.

My sisters and I don't understand the madness of this. But hey, we don't share the same "love" ambitions as our parents. This is a soul experience at work. I actually think they both "chose" it like that.

posted April 19, 2020 10:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Food for more thought🤔 Thank you for the perspective.

I dont know how this thread became about Pluto all of a sudden. But that's how conversations go

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