posted June 02, 2020 07:30 AM            

The Saturn-Pluto conjunction has been at the heart of talks for obvious reasons.

I have this conjunction in the natal (bit loose, but enough to be felt) and in at least one occurrence, they both aspect a personal planet.

Both aspects’ outcomes are fiercely opposed and it has been a long journey trying to understand how I could create a whole of two violently different energies unleashed on a personal planet that is often said to fare off better with neither. (I’ve also often wondered how it would go if my planet was squared by both but they were in opposition instead of conjunct ???)

Anyway, I’ve often wondered if one "won", if my Saturn or my Pluto, regardless of their loose conjunction, was stronger in the chart and thus would be more prominent in the square that links them to a personal planet.

This is where 'about me' stops because it isn't about me, I was just contextualising the origin of my question.

My question is: while conjunctions imply a merging of energies, other factors in any chart (person, event) can make one of the energies more potent and could in this case somehow overtake the other (following one logic there, do correct from an astrological perspective if needed).
So, I wondered, in this current climate where it seems Saturn and Pluto have been fighting more than acting together, could one win?
Could this current merge of both energies end up in pure Saturnian restriction: dictatorships, repression, oppression, or pure Plutonian fire: riots, destruction, revolution.
At the moment both are on the horizon but ultimately one "wins" (not that it's a victory in any way), order is maintained, in tatters but maintained, or destroyed.
So, which is moving with more stamina backed by the rest of the sky? Which is more benefiting from the rest of the starry climate in that moment of fleeting separation? What can we expect, from an astrological perspective, when Saturn and Pluto meet again later? Will they be the same two who met earlier, or will they be slightly different?
Where they even equal when they first met this year? Or are we experiencing an increasingly Saturn/Pluto flavoured conjunction?

I note that I envision the worst sides for both, put that on the fact I don't see much to rejoice bout around me these days, but again, do correct if needed, I do love Saturn's providing of structure and Pluto's rebirths, I just fail to see them at the moment, I've lost touch with their prospects because of the violent clash and primary level of confrontation that seems to be happening in many countries under different forms.

posted June 02, 2020 04:48 PM            

Saturn and Pluto are not violently different in their energies. In interpreting any aspect, particularly a conjunction or parallel, it is important to understand their energies are being fused as you mentioned about merging. Therefore, it is necessary to see how they overlap, what they have in common. This is how you begin conceptually to integrate their energies consciously.

There is an old story from Sumer outlined by Zecharia Sitchin in his book The 12th Planet that says Pluto was a Moon of Saturn: http://www.sitchin.com/Pluto.htm

quote:

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So, I wondered, in this current climate where it seems Saturn and Pluto have been fighting more than acting together, could one win?

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Only temporarily.

quote:

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Could this current merge of both energies end up in pure Saturnian restriction: dictatorships, repression, oppression, or pure Plutonian fire: riots, destruction, revolution.

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First, they are not of such opposite natures as you've described here with attributions especially to Pluto. Pluto is in some ways passion, but not fire in any above-ground sense, being a sub-terranian god, contained within the earth and closely related to water.

Pluto in this conjunction with Saturn in Capricorn tends to intensify Saturn, particularly in its more authoritarian leanings. But the answers to your compound question is again: only temporarily, and both simultaneously and at different times as we are witnessing on the world scene -- temporarily.

I don't see the point of trying to answer the rest of your questions, except to say that it is Pluto that outlines the longer term energy of inner empowerment towards alignment with what survives the doorway of death.

I see transits as framing windows of opportunity. The key to understanding the opportunity is an optimistic (open ended, open minded, broad) view. The world has already made the choice (in the 1980s) to avert Mutually Assured Destruction. And since then we have been moving towards peace. But that does not mean you'll find evidence of it readily all around you. Those who cling to darkness and old ways of doing things will fight back to preserve their human means and human legacies.

The news always focuses on the negative because that is where the drama is, the hooks into the emotions of the masses who live without awareness or internal empowerment. So it is becoming increasingly difficult to understand mundane astrological things if you ingest a steady diet of news (or dystopia through any media).

Growth on a personal level can happen quickly enough and close enough to us to be quickly gratifying. Growth on a mass, collective scale is very, very slow, but is most dramatic when there are rare but significant shifts occurring as now.

When we witness events on the world scene we are seeing the manifestation of what has been built up on a consciousness level for years, decades, or longer (which will always be a mixture of things). That is not the change. What comes with new birth is always something of a purging. It is common for a mother giving birth to scream, to be in indescribable pain. But you wouldn't judge the entire event by just that. Soon she will be flooded with euphoria, hormones, and experiencing perhaps the most elevated and selfless feeling of love she's ever known, looking into the face of a child who now lives in a body just shoved out of her own like in a climactic primal catharsis.

To sustain the metaphor, change is very personal, even traumatic in ways, but necessary to continue -- and worth it. Anything can be healed and transmuted into a new state of mind that allows us to enjoy the newness we will soon hold in our hands. What humanity will soon hold in its hands will be widely varied: new life, new freedom, new generations with greater power to do good, a world organized along different lines -- not necessarily the fulfillment of expectations (or wishful thinking) of those of us who were already here. We carry the responsibility to nurture and help along the new ones and the new opportunities.

None of this can be felt or understood while staring at the pain and screaming. We have to keep in mind the completion, the result that will come, and especially keep to an optimistic mentality of Love-as-creative-power, which negates fear.

Humanity and its consciousness create the outcomes, not astrological factors.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted June 02, 2020 05:22 PM            

On the other hand, Pluto can express itself as rule by direct domination, humiliation, oppression and slavery. There's little or no attempt to morally justify this kind of organization, it is just the right of the strong to dominate the weak because they can. Pluto also represents violent overthrowing of domination, and changing of positions so that the slave becomes the new master, and the master the new slave.

posted June 05, 2020 10:16 AM            

@ Moonbeth:
I don't know much about you and your life and medical history as I have not been a regular on Lindaland for years now, so your name was not familiar to me until we clashed. And I still don't know much about you.

Regardless, I was sorry to read that you have been in and out of hospitals. Health is probably the most precious wealth we can have, so as a human being to another human being, I sincerely wish you can surmount your health trials and come out in a better position physically and emotionally.

Knowing the importance of the mind and emotional states in our bodily affairs, if I were in your shoes, I would stop focusing on all the turmoil that's happening around me in the world and focus on healing me. There is also beauty and good all around us, but the media will not let us see it, so you have to look for those. The world has been in conflict since forever and will probably continue long after we are gone. There is so much on the outside we can control, but our emotional states are within our control and I would focus on that. I would ask myself, what does feeling healthy looks or feels like to me, and I would focus on that to start with, even if it felt utopic or unrealistic. Healing starts in the mind first. On an astrological level, this is probably the work of using Plutonian energy, since it is subtereannean and its ultimate goal is transformative.

Wishing you well with all my heart.

posted June 05, 2020 10:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PhoenixRising:
We all fear Saturn. But it is Saturn who is the true teacher and not Jupiter. Jupiter is a liar in some cycles but it does happen. So when Saturn conjuncts pluto, you see things lot clearer that you couldn't see before in the new light.

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Not sure what you mean Phoenix. Saturn oppose the two luminaries in the signs of Capricorn & Acuarious and represent the darkest time of the year. Are you implying something on the line of esoteric astrology which have an heliocentric perspective?

posted June 05, 2020 11:03 AM            

I am giving a beginner answer, so no worries.

not sure if i read it before or i just made it up, but believe that the slower planet always have the upper hand. i agree with Kannon that Pluto intensify what it aspect, in this case saturnian qualities are exacerbated and exhibit a primal (pluto) need for survival. that means that the normally fear of saturn associated to keeping the structures become a matter of life and death.
but thinking about windows of opportunities, what is this aspect good for? what is inviting for?

posted June 05, 2020 11:23 AM            

You have to learn from a teacher who has learnt the ancient ways. I just started with her a month ago. There is lot of bull out there in the media. They do this to have control over you. Those are done to control and manipulate you. With true masters you are insured.

Jesus said to them, “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters". The way to Jesus. Jesus is Aqua, Aqua is way to Jesus. Venus , your heart, conjunct Aqua is good event that happened this year.

Powerful conjunction is going to happen in Capricorn in the winter solstice. Capricorn, the Father. "Father, let thy kingdom come". Jesus said , I and the Father are one. Cappy and Aqua favors Saturn. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world." ( I am adding era). It is not of pisces ruled by Jupiter false teacher. It is coming . It is Aqua. Aqua is not about technology, 5G. Thats media perverted notion. It is increasing your god given gifts and using it naturally . Telepathy, psychic etc.

Saturn has rings , the crown. The king. The conscious mind. In the older traditions -- Uranus, Neptune, Pluto had no significance perhaps because it wasn't discovered then. Hence I will be skeptical when people interpret.

Jupiter can be a false teacher. Always desiring to learn more. The age of water sign Pisces, favored it. People engaged in all behaviors. Saturn is the conscious mind -- not desiring. Just Being. Choiceless awareness that Krishnamurthy speaks about. That is how humanity will evolve over the next thousands of years, heaven on earth.Aqua (heaven/air) on earth (cappy).

Neptune is our imagination. Are you able to manifest your realities ? Pluto the subconscious mind. Uranus another aspect of the conscious mind.

posted June 06, 2020 04:40 PM            

maybe you want to start a specific thread on that matter to focus specifically on what is different, which seems to be a huge deal. Besides the obvious inversion of sings, the significance of the planets seems to be different as well.