posted November 16, 2020 04:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Probably here in Astrology 2.0, but you can do a search of it on LL at www.lindagoodman.org for any existing threads.

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posted November 16, 2020 07:16 PM            

Alan Oken rays

posted November 16, 2020 11:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Try these search words --
- www.lindagoodman.org

Alan Oken rays

A list of threads will appear.
You can follow the links inside the links, for more information.

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posted November 17, 2020 04:36 PM            

She wasn't my cup of tea, and I didn't find much of value in her books/teachings.

Edit to add, this was after a couple of years of looking into her work and having a couple of her books. There was very little logic in most of her astrology. The only thing that made sense was the connection between Mercury and Aries.

posted November 17, 2020 10:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:

Why not just open a new thread ... on this Astrology 2.0 board?

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posted November 18, 2020 02:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I thought about it, just not sure more than a few people would be interested enough to keep it going. I've read books and sites and they vary slightly but it really interests me, kind of keeps calling me (bit annoying but I am a taurus, digging my heels in until I can't any longer) so I'm trying to find others who relate on a personal level to this branch of astrology.

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posted November 18, 2020 02:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Esoteric Astrology
and Evolutionary Astrology (via Jeff Green)
are TWO different systems.
Not the same at all.

Dons.. haha. Yup, Alan Oken. That's his book. Covers Esoteric Astrology.

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Well I see your point, and I think it is simply packaged as Evoutionary.
There are however definitely esoteric aspects in Green's analysis and knowledge (past lives etc.).
This is due to his heavy insight into Pluto and (planetary) Nodes.
Looking at his chart one can easily see his capacity of penetrating the veil.
It doesn't mean he is always correct - and I haven't studied everything he's written - but I think his work is absolutely of value for esoteric understanding.

I am using the word esoteric in a wide sense rather than limited to Theosophy (i.e. lineage of Mark Jones, Alice Bailey etc.) which is just one expression of esoteric astrological thinking. Simply equating esoteric astrology with theosophical astrology does a disservice to the reality of esoteric information and how this wider tradition evolves. Green's work must be payed attention to in my opinion: it is exceptionally penetrating and highly disregarded - of direct value to ones own esoteric understanding.

Sabian Symbols also fall into this category of esoteric in my view.

posted November 18, 2020 03:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by nomad-monad:
Well I see your point, and I think it is simply packaged as Evolutionary.
There are however definitely esoteric aspects in Green's analysis and knowledge (past lives etc.).
This is due to his heavy insight into Pluto and (planetary) Nodes.
Looking at his chart one can easily see his capacity of penetrating the veil.
It doesn't mean he is always correct - and I haven't studied everything he's written - but I think his work is absolutely of value for esoteric understanding.

I am using the word esoteric in a wide sense rather than limited to Theosophy (i.e. lineage of Mark Jones, Alice Bailey etc.) which is just one expression of esoteric astrological thinking. Simply equating esoteric astrology with theosophical astrology does a disservice to the reality of esoteric information and how this wider tradition evolves. Green's work must be payed attention to in my opinion: it is exceptionally penetrating and highly disregarded - of direct value to ones own esoteric understanding.

Sabian Symbols also fall into this category of esoteric in my view.

These are all fragments of guidance toward higher soul learning one can connect as a puzzle.
No individual institution/system can claim ownership of the word 'esoteric'.
It is by nature fragmented - Osiris scattered limbs.
Isis re-members them - the receptive capacity of the soul.

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nomad-monad, yes I see.

It's like the word catholic and Catholic.
Definition of the word catholic means 'wide universal'.
The word Catholic with the 'c' capitalized is the religion, the institution.

Esoteric with the 'E' capitalized is a branch of astrology.

Evolutionary.. yes, JW Green. I've listened to lectures. I had purchased his book on Pluto. He works off interpreting the 'nodes' belonging to each planet in the chart, also.

posted November 19, 2020 08:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Esoteric Astrology has a different system of rulerships.
e.g. Gemini in classic astrology is ruled by planet Mercury.
In Esoteric Astrology, the sign Gemini is ruled by planet Venus.

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posted November 19, 2020 11:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by nomad-monad:
Yes, and I figure this 'system' is what Dons referred to. I just enjoy to stir the pot a bit: to dislocate certain preconceptions, for example that only 'Esoteric' astrology is esoteric.

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posted November 19, 2020 11:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I was just referring to basic soul astrology, no particular form in general. Just deeper than personality based.

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OK, I see. There are ways (or attempts) to look at it alchemically as well, for example:

In terms of the planetary nodes (as per Green), they reflect the past and current focal direction of each planet. For example my Mercury South Node is at 05.55 Aquarius in 9th house, the Merc North Node is at 18.22 Pisces in 10th house, conjunct my natal Mercury and the fixed star Fum Al Samakah (Mouth of the Fish).

With Gem Asc, Mercury is my Chart ruler and Asc is conjunct the North Node of Uranus.

Natal Uranus is in Sag, square natal Mercury and its NN.

This reveal a past life of the soul where I worked a lot mentally with 9th house matters relating to Aquarian archetype (strenghtened by the fact that Merc SN is conjunct asteroid Delphi). In the current lifetime my past Mercurial achievements are to be remembered and then channeled into career form, and I am to work toward achieving a smooth flow between Uranus and Mercury: to learn to receive Uranian higher awareness and disseminate the learning through my career work.

At least, this is how I read it today.

You can do this kind of analysis for all planets.

If interested, you can calculate your planetary nodes here (tick box for nNode+sNode):
http://www.true-node.com/eph3/

And here is a 1.5+1.5 hour talk by Green on the topic:

http://youtu.be/1MgKwINCZ70
http://youtu.be/GA9jXbLfBgo

posted November 19, 2020 05:50 PM            

Vedic charts look rectangular-- with little stacked boxes. Called "square or diamond" type charts (not the round circle ones).
If you go to Joni's site, you can download a copy of what your Vedic looks like. You'll see the degrees and zodiac differ from tropical.
e.g. I have a tropical Sag-Rising chart.
In Vedic system, my sidereal ascendant is Scorpio.

They calculate degrees using Sidereal positions (the Constellations, based on the actual position of the stars in the background of the sky).

AND, you don't "just" go off the 'one' chart--
there are a hundred or more square/or-diamond charts that must be examined in context with and TO the 'first' chart you get, in order to 'work' your astrology.
VERY complex system.
Satisfying if you're into tiny little researched details.

posted November 19, 2020 07:12 PM            

And in same, each Sign has two other sets of rulers besides the ones we are familiar with. According to her, the regular rulers apply to most people who are relatively unawakened. The 2nd set applies to people that are definitely on the path of becoming awakened, and the 3rd set is for those who are Initiates past a certain level. It's been over a decade since I've been immersed in her work and I don't remember all the particulars.

The irony being that Signs are actually less applicable to older Souls to begin with. All that focus on Signs in her work is silly, as it's the Signs which relate most to the more egoic-personality level of us.

Then she talks about the 7 rays, but the way she talks about them is in a very fixed sense. Like you come into this life on/from a particular ray and it doesn't change. Well as Cayce's guidance told one person who apparently had been into Theosophy, "you make the ray, a ray doesn't carry you along."

Meaning, the use and exercise of our freewill, makes it so we go up or down the vibrational spectrum of consciousness. For example, a person may have come in very attuned to the 4th Center and to the thymus gland, but say they really try to grow in this life--they might start shifting/phasing into the 5th Center and the thyroid gland. Conversely, their aura will shift from having a lot of green to cyan in same, to having more and more blue in same.

This use of freewill and potential change from the Natal cannot be seen in any chart. Freewill is a wildcard factor. No one can completely predict it ahead of time in all cases. It is akin to the randomness in the quantum browninian movement/vibration.

Anyways, after a sincere deep dive into Bailey, I abandoned same because her system lacked a holistic, internally consistent logic. Truth is ever and always logical in its essence. That's because Creation is based on Law. Beneath the randomness and chaos of freewill of Souls, is a harmonious structure and a system of checks and balances.

In a broad sense, much of what I talk about in relation to astrology is a more metaphysical, deeper, more esoteric form of same.

posted November 20, 2020 01:01 PM            

(topic) Astrology: Determinism vs. Free Will
(Astrology University - Jeff Jawer and Rick Levine, 2010)
[5:04] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViijRleYu1Q
yt notes:
"Rick Levine and Jeff Jawer discuss the current re-examination of ancient forms of deterministic astrology.
Rick shares his comparison of Particle-Wave theory and determinism vs. free will.
Recorded at Breitenbush Hot Springs, OR in 2010."

(topic) Mr. Rick Levine of USA addressing on "Quantum Astrology"
(IVC Conference Krishnamurti Institute of Astrology, 2018)
[28:09] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAjMT5k9mD4

posted November 20, 2020 08:35 PM            

updated 11/23
I drew my chart in a couple vedic places, one, if it's accurate broke down so many alchemical bases, I better comprehend my essence. It fit what so many others have told me about me, my whole life(from others perspectives) and it also fits ^ the Aether/ water parts in that. Aether is strong in my makeup. This explains many random other things too.