posted September 22, 2021 07:59 PM            

Now I figure it out that I think my husband is coming from enmeshment family as his Mother has Moon in Cancer, but also she is a Scorpio sun and venus with Mars in Virgo conjunct Pluto close aspect, Sag mercury.

I wonder why the kids obey her like the kids do not know how to take their own decision or afraid of her which is very codependency relationship I see. It answers my question on why my Gemini sun husband isn't like the typical Gemini sun or he seems lost like he doesn't even know what he wants or what he should do or even defines his own character. He really really depends on another person's views of him, thoughts/opinions, wants, and needs. He is someone who can easily influenced by people because he has weak character. He also sees her Mother as a good nurturing and caring but what I see: she bombards the kids with what they need at the right time (this is easy for her because she doesn't encourage the kids to be independent, financially and personally, so the kids don't have desire to get what they need by their ownself so they are waiting for the Mother to feed them) and she asks return by take a control of the kid's life if not she doesn't hesitate to create guilt or punishment. Isn't it toxic? YES IT IS. She really has problem with boundaries as she doesn't mind to share what should be private private and always be in her kids life even if the kids have been married. This creates bizarre behavior with the kids as they shares private matter, for example sex matter, to other people especially their circle like big family or friends. For me, it's very disturbing because you should not share it to your family circle.

But I want to know if this is really coming from Cancer placement: the enmeshment family. Especially the Moon in Cancer because I've read that if the Moon in Cancer isn't healthy as a person, she/he creates enmeshment family or the easiest person to keep the loop/unhealthy family relationship to the next generation.

posted September 23, 2021 12:13 AM            

You want your kids to be independent so you challenge them but you want them to feel they can turn to you for support and emotional nourishment.

posted September 23, 2021 04:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
What's your hubby's placements?

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posted September 23, 2021 05:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Nope is not his moon in cancer, my husband has that and he does not come from an enmeshed family, in fact, his mother was always shipping him off somewhere and that was the problem, lack of attunement with her son. He needed to be heard, loved, seeing, understood and accepted, not shipped off to boarding school a few years after his father died and then sent away to college. Naturally he felt rejected by his mother, and did not feel like a priority to her.

You want your kids to be independent so you challenge them but you want them to feel they can turn to you for support and emotional nourishment.

Now does he have MOON in hard aspect to NEPTUNE?

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The one who has Moon in Cancer is his Mother, he has Moon in Sagittarius.

The moon in Sagittarius has no hard aspect to Neptune.

What I said is, if the Moon in Cancer isn't a healthy person, she/he either "creates" enmeshment family of her/his own OR if the enmeshment family has been in a family history for a long time, she/he is the easiest to pass it to her/his own family, especially to the next generation which means the kids get the most impact, not the spouse, as she/he sees the kids are the extended of her/himself, so the kids are supposed to follow her/his rules by not considering if that's healthy for their relationship.

posted September 23, 2021 10:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hearttreasure:
The one who has Moon in Cancer is his Mother, he has Moon in Sagittarius.

The moon in Sagittarius has no hard aspect to Neptune.

What I said is, if the Moon in Cancer isn't a healthy person, she/he either "creates" enmeshment family of her/his own OR if the enmeshment family has been in a family history for a long time, she/he is the easiest to pass it to her/his own family, especially to the next generation which means the kids get the most impact, not the spouse, as she/he sees the kids are the extended of her/himself, so the kids are supposed to follow her/his rules by not considering if that's healthy for their relationship.

Most of cases, enmeshment family is coming from the relationship of Mother and the kids, not sure if there is Father and the kids.

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My husband's mother also has MOON in CANCER and he did not have an enmeshed relationship with her nor his brother. My point bringing up my mother is that she shares with his mother VENUS and MARS in hard aspect to PLUTO, that is were the need to control comes from which results in her kids becoming dependent on her. I have a strong personality so I fought it so did my sister and we are both strong independent women but my brother the oldest with Mars in Taurus never left home so the personality of the kids also factors in, you have to factor in the personality of the mother and of the kids bc BOTH play a role in this co-dependent dynamics. You can say the kids may also end up in relationships were others depend on them too so it can play out that way too.

posted September 28, 2021 12:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
My husband's mother also has MOON in CANCER and he did not have an enmeshed relationship with her nor his brother. My point bringing up my mother is that she shares with his mother VENUS and MARS in hard aspect to PLUTO, that is were the need to control comes from which results in her kids becoming dependent on her. I have a strong personality so I fought it so did my sister and we are both strong independent women but my brother the oldest with Mars in Taurus never left home so the personality of the kids also factors in, you have to factor in the personality of the mother and of the kids bc BOTH play a role in this co-dependent dynamics. You can say the kids may also end up in relationships were others depend on them too so it can play out that way too.

There are ENMESHED family systems so it does not always mean the mother, everyone's attachment style comes from both their mother and father so you can develop two different attachment styles but as you get older typically one predominates. If the father is controlling overprotective type A and creates dependency from his kids it can stem from someone's relationship with their father is just that typically men foster independence in their kids.

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Then we consider their Moon in Cancer is in a healthy state?

At first, the Mother of my husband was like his Moon in Sagittarius. She gave him freedom to the point she didn't care what he had done outside of the home. When he worked to other state for a year, his Mother had no problem with it. He even told me when he was a kid he was freed to go 'till the dark even if he did mistake, his Mother would never remember it and acted like he never did any mistake.

What I also saw at the time when I had a conversation with her, she didn't even have an interest to really know about her kids, she even said, "why should I ask them?" then laugh.

After we got married, I started to see what his Mother portray herself in the beginning was only a camouflage. I started realize his Mother just acts DUMB and highly manipulative person. She actually really really knows her kids to a point she knows what to say and what to do to make the kids agree with her. She may not know everything what the kids do outside of the home, she has already satisfied that she can make the kids feel guilty to take the control.

The extreme comes when we have a kid. After my labor, she sent her friend to take care of my baby for 6 months without my consent or permission. I asked my husband what was all about and he said that his Mother told him that was their family tradition to separate the Mother from the baby for 6 months. I said to him that was all nonsense and his Mother even never talked about his grandmother to him or any other story about her family and how could he trust her it was a tradition? That was the beginning of the control war between me and his Mother through him.

The weird part is she never tries to confront me but uses my husband and other people. The other day when she saw the clothes I bought my husband, the next day he gave him similar clothes with different color, and when we visited her home I realized she bought the same things as what I use daily at our home. She also asks him to pick her up everyday and depends on him like a partner. Isn't it weird? It is for me. But it never becomes our problem, our problem is that she tries to take control of our marriage using my husband by manipulating my husband, who doesn't get the right information or education, and guilt him for what she has done to him (work for him, pay for him, give him a place to sleep, etc).

I don't think all the kids get the same treatment from the Mother as my husband gets the most attention from her.

The link told enmeshment family in Cancer moon part:

posted September 28, 2021 11:19 PM            

With the scorpio sun I can see the manipulative and controling part come out.

Depending on the Gemini they can either become like your husband or learn to become really independent, ready to vanish and brake that control.

I can only assume the Cancer moon whould be like my Cancer sun parents, both of them are caring but they sorta have this controling way of caring.

Anyway I broke out of there control a longtime ago after they sabotaged me a couple times..not on purpose just them not knowing any better.

My Planets
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posted October 08, 2021 08:03 AM            

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Originally posted by DualGemV2:
Just my opinion i'd attribute it to the Cancer moon and Scorpio sun combo.

With the scorpio sun I can see the manipulative and controling part come out.

Depending on the Gemini they can either become like your husband or learn to become really independent, ready to vanish and brake that control.

I can only assume the Cancer moon whould be like my Cancer sun parents, both of them are caring but they sorta have this controling way of caring.

Anyway I broke out of there control a longtime ago after they sabotaged me a couple times..not on purpose just them not knowing any better.

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I wonder about it. Isn't it Gemini sun people in general do not like being controlled by anyone? Isn't it they will always be the first to refuse any kind of enmeshment relationship? Unless it has been rooted in the family since little, right?

I wonder why he gets jealous everytime I spend time with my family, MY FAMILY, like it should not become a big problem, right? I don't even prohibit him visiting his parent everyday (it has something to do with his Mother) then why when it comes me visiting my family once a week or once a month, or even just spend a holiday with them become a source of new drama created?

His Mother even in sudden creates family gathering where I should, SHOULD, be there no matter what. Meanwhile he confesses to me that they never have family gathering before, even in a big holiday like Christmas, or having family outing isn't their thing. And it happens after she knows my family dynamics. The funny part is when she tried to compete with my Mother who helped me with things during my labor by unusually giving too much of attention like buying too many things that we actually didn't really need it at that time. Yes, I have learned that his Mother is using money to show affection (never physical or by words) and that's what he calls loving and nurturing because he gets money easily from her compares to his Father and to these days he still depends on her buying his own underwear. I think she knows very well that money is the most powerful tool of control too, that's what she is doing too to other people, including our marriage. I didn't know that when she offered to pay all of the marriage bills and she persuaded him to ask me move in to his place (which actually his Mother owns it), she puts us in an enmeshed situation and he has no power to fight it, well, because the guilt she makes him and codependency issues.

When she offered once again to pay my labor, I refused as I had learned her pattern and I didn't want to give her another chance to guilt us to get away from her controlling behavior. My husband raged at me when I insisted not following hers (I know that he also got pushed behind, since his Mother never tried to confront me but using my husband as I am brave enough to say no while he is a passive aggressive and has a trouble saying no) and he punished me by let me do all of my labor process (thank God there's my family to support me) until we separated for 6 months due to physical abuse I received after my labor, which the source of our arguments was actually because all of his Mother's demands I refused to follow because it was all very suspicious from separating the Mother from the baby to I wasn't allowed breastfeeding my baby, like she planned to take away my baby from me, to punish me? I don't know.

posted October 08, 2021 11:58 AM            

EDIT

".. separating the Mother from the baby to I wasn't allowed breastfeeding my baby, like she planned to take away my baby from me, to punish me? I don't know."

So, your CHILD was taken away from you by someone?
~That's just messed up.

posted October 08, 2021 01:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
None of you HAVE birthed and raised children of your OWN?
Go have some kids, then have THEM come back in 20 years to say how that went for for them.

EDIT

".. separating the Mother from the baby to I wasn't allowed breastfeeding my baby, like she planned to take away my baby from me, to punish me? I don't know."

So, your CHILD was taken away from you by someone?
~That's just messed up.

Some placements to 9th House can give you bad mother-in-law experiences. 9th House are the InLaws. .. You might experience that no matter how many times you got married.

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She tried to, but I refused any kind of what she said "a help". And that's what she told my husband, "offering a help". For me, I don't think it's a help, it's a trap. Of course I would never allow anyone if not trusted to take care of my baby, would never abandon my kid no matter what.

During our separation, I took my baby with me because if we continued to live together with all of those nonsense craziness during my recovery, I thought I might loose my mind and wouldn't be able to take care of my baby with a healthy mind.

I think the reason why she did what she did because she felt like my kid is another part of her, or maybe because my kid is very beautiful angelic looking than any of her grandchildren, so she feels like she has a right to take control of that part of her. I don't know it's just so crazy to think about. Why she puts all that attention to my husband and my kid, why? Is he her favorite child?

Trying to brainwash my husband by putting paranoia seeds inside his head about I would kill or hurt my baby if we don't follow her instructions as someone who has more experience raising children than me, like, that thought is just so extreme, isn't it? meanwhile she also smoothly puts some manipulation there "if".

No matter how many times I told my husband that I don't have any problem with any kind of suggestions, advices from older people about how to take care of a kid, I respect them as I still talk to my Mother and one of my sister is a doctor, but why his Mother force hers into us? It even feels nonsense for a rational thought. But, still he keeps pushing me to follow hers. I just don't know what she has done to him anymore.

My 9th house is Leo/Virgo (I have Virgo MC) and I think her Mars and Pluto sit in my 9th house.

posted October 08, 2021 02:57 PM            

One day, the Mother-in-Law took her adult-child aside (and! know that she gives him generous amounts of money for holidays and when he tells her he has needs). She SOWED 'dividing WORDS' (told him his mother is abusing her).

The kid told the mom--- and she BLEW UP.
How DARE she take HER kid, and poison him like that!
Tried to put him in the middle.
(Unfortunately, the son and his newer wife, had HAD to move into the woman's house during a catastrophic financial event.)

She (a Pisces-- with her 29+ Capricorn Moon in the Ninth!!-- the In-Law house) went to her HUSBAND (a triple Taurus), and the TAURUS had a '~little word' with the Gemini 20+ early LeoMoon Mother-- a Venus Taurus, who adored this son.
. .
What he DID?
He took her BACK in memory, to the days of her OWN beginning with HER {scorpio} Mother-In-Law. His (scorpio) Father/her husband had made a 400 mile move AWAY 'from his own mother' FOR the peace and sake of his gemini Wife.
. .
THEN,
he TOLD his Mother that he will NOT allow HER to do the SAME THING to HIS wife. Said that they would MOVE OUT if any thing else like that were to occur again.
(It was to the Mother's advantage that this couple had moved in to her large 4 bedroom home, as her spouse had died, and she was very older and needed assistance.)

So... She would 'still' play 'games'... Go off by herself, then come back-- to 'accuse' the wife of something she didn't do----- But as it was a convenience (for both parties) that the couple lived there, ... over time, she calmed down.

The Mother was always quick with checkbook -- for 'needs' they had but couldn't yet quite catch-up financially {but I ~think they did eventually come even from the assistance the Mother gave}. (Reason they moved in? They BOTH wound up having emergency hospital stays {at same basic time, for two different ailments}, and... they were living in an ultra-conservative State where they could NOT afford 'the price of Health Insurance' yet as they both were dealing with life-changes, and newly married-- with finances in a stuck place (that later unstuck for them). It was unfortunate that they BOTH got sick at same time; the Mother OFFERED that they should move in with her.
(Better news is that they HAVE made a recovery, financially, from being under her roof for the past few years. It worked out in a having reciprocal-needs way.)

* * *
I said this -- to show the "Ninth House" connection female to female. (I think the Mother-in-Law's Saturn Aquarius is in the wife's Capricorn 9th.) They BOTH have MARS in the exact degree of Gemini-- Oh yeah!!! But the Wife's Mars is ON her Ascendant!!! *she wins* haha, and the M.InLaw's Sun is in her first house. ?Karma? ... Turned out well.

{I know you said that you yourself don't have 9th House placements, but that HER (heavier) planets are in your ninth. whoah..}

REcapping:
Her HUSBAND ... approached (his) Mother VERY VERY wisely, when in a sideways kind of communication, he spoke to her in a way that reflected HER 'bad behaviors' with his wife. LOL !!
Pointed out HER past.
Reminded her of what HER husband did on HER behalf.
This Taurean Son/sun was ready~~~ to do-the-same for HIS wife, 'should' she continue her SLY interference in the relationship between his wife and her son.
('Third' party,.. Like the sly Snake in story of Adam and Eve -- such sneaky manipulations).

Hearttreasure
I don't think you're wrong WANTING him to 'fend' for you----
And yet...
He has the INTUITION on WHAT his Mother is capable of.
He MAY see the 'Holiday' emphasis AS being a REAL Family Tradition (that many traditional families love to do).
That is part of his Heritage.

And yes, a 'grandbaby' CAN feel as though it IS a part of HER, her DNA. She may feel threatened, inside perceiving that 'you' are keeping 'her' from her grandchild..

Puts enmity between the two of you that you-daughterInLaw would cruelly 'withhold'.

And yet too,
I completely understand the hesitations you feel about any kind of visitation/ handing the baby over to her---??
That perhaps her (outer planets) heavy 'mine' energies (my grandkid, my son) might feel to you, as though she (potentially) has the power to STEAL away what you LOVE and Competently Care For--- subconsciously, real fear or not, I wonder if you think her influence would 'turn the kid' 'the husband' against you?????

That's your solid "Protective MAMA" energy ...
I feel that's completely understandable when 'the Other' comes off soooo strongly.

Your Husband is going to have to reconcile all of this--- he's at the crux of it, as your husband and father of your child together.

Using YOUR Intuition (not so much fear, but Trusting), perhaps you can let go (a little-more) of the grip of tight-fear within, the tight-innerReins of control ...) .. And gently, you KNOW that your Husband would NOT let any harm come to the child. The 'harm' there is from your own fear--- and I have UNDERSTOOD that fear.
And I know the pain of Loss, all TOO well.

This reminds me of a Ceres-Pluto kind of story. Ceres did NOT want to let HER child be in the clutches of the Lord of Scorpio-Hades; But eventually, a Share-Arrangement came. The child MUST be able to learn safety for itself.

Old Saying: You're Preaching To The Choir here.
REALLY. *hug*

You mentioned your abuse....
You are my Sister in that ...
And we BOTH have grown, and have had Children..
I went through the PAIN of divorce,
and the TERRIBLE WORRY for my children.
If there's a WAY to work things out, I hope it will be successful. The HARDSHIP of being a single-mother is immense, and financially expensive.

I KNOW how difficult 'trust' can come,
and the PAIN that can BE there, underlying ALL of it.

(music) If I Could (Barbra Streisand,
with pictures of her Son, growing up)
(he's a Good man ..)
[4:33] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYVCxzfTaZk