posted January 13, 2022 12:40 PM            

As I said in the previous post.I think they find it hard to understand themselves, nevermind articulating themselves to others.

The 12th house is to me like when you are busy having a conversation with someone and really into it. Then suddenly you two are interrupted by someone.

After that person has left, you ask yourself "what was I saying again?" And then you struggle to find your chain of thought till its lost for that moment.

When you are at home. All relaxed and disengaged from that conversation. The point that you were trying to make at that time,gets to you. This could be days or a week later.🤷🏿‍♂️

posted January 13, 2022 10:56 PM            

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:
Haha such a nice way of putting it and you are so right, It has been like that a few times. But I haven't been asked a lot what I meant but more like some people think they got it and then when I hear them respond to me they completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. Do you think 12th house esp moon in there is a house you can actually get to the bottom of? if so, how and why? Like I said I even find 8th housers to be easier to get to know, understand and figure out than the 12th house.

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I think trying to get to the "bottom" of the 12th house in order to solve it, is like trying to get to the "bottom" of the ocean. Good luck😂

posted January 14, 2022 08:09 AM            

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:
Yes. I have my moon there and i find that placement to be almost boundless it seems. This placement can be so empathetic too that your own feelings and thoughts are hidden somewhere in the "ocean" not only that i also have a Cancer moon which also have a tendency to absorb the feelings and thoughts of others. I just feel like there is no separation between my own feelings and those of others. My south node is also in Cancer so emotions, understanding and sensitivity is all a familiar ground to me but i need to be more like my north node grounded and more in control of my emotions and a lot more focus on my goals and not so much on emotions and undercurrents but it`s hard to outgrow your south node esp when one of your personal planets is in the same sign.

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oh ok I see. I often think that the Moon in 12th has to do with the early home environment i.e. the Mom was either inaccessible/unknown or one idealized her too much.

There could have been domestic instability, some distance between her and the child (usually oceans apart in years or physical distance). Or perhaps she was incarcerated?

Whatever the manifestation, the relationship between Mom and child influences how the child perceives life from the first caregiver one came into contact with.

So in effect, if there was a separation/ disconnect . Then the child may have trouble bonding with themselves through getting to know their own feelings(Mom tends to make us aware of our feelings).Thereby (by extension) affecting one's ability to bond with others.

Being emotionally disconnected from others/ aloof can be the result. Trouble in seeing where you belong or else identifying where your sense of "foundation" is, is difficult. All of these themes are Moon/Mom related.

I also see this position as probable in cases of adoption ,mental illness/ neglect or substance abuse in the domestic environment- Thereby creating an inability for one to truly understand what "stability" is or "consistency".

Typically if Moon is in aspect to Mars/Saturn, the native can be defensive in associations and refuse to trust in interpersonal relationships

if in aspect to Neptune/Mars there is a tendency for one to trust too easily/soon because one wants to feel a sense of "belonging" so badly and can unfortunately suffer betrayal.

if in aspect to Uranus/Jupiter, there is likely to be moodiness or a tendency towards emotional irascibility. Thus resulting in finding it difficult 2 establish friendships/ intimate associations. Commitment issues.

If in aspect to Pluto, the native may harbor deep resentment for the mother and (by extension) maternal figures will be viewed with suspicion.

posted January 15, 2022 04:30 AM            

Yes.Plu in 4th can be the "uncovering" of the foundation (4th) that one was brought up under. If it was deceptive, there could rage felt by the native because of this.

Pluto in 4th often suggests secrets in the home life or living with someone whom wants absolute autonomy over everything (including you). Whatever the manifestation, Plu typically suggests that "all is not as it seems" (this includes the square)

A lady I interacted with had Pluto conj the Ic and when young, her mom refused for her to have a relationship with her father.

The reason behind that was because the Mom claimed that the father sexually abused her younger sister. So she (the lady) fely rage for her father and was happy to sever ties with him.

When older(notably Pluto transits arced to square her natal Mercury)the truth came out. It was all a LIE.

The mother resented the Dad for moving on with someone else and used the kids as a weapon to "punish" him. He (the Dad) actually longed to have a relationship with them and reached out to he and her sister for many years throughout his life without a response.

This revelation came out when the mother was ailing ans close to death. And luckily the Dad was still alive to make up for lost time. He wasn't bitter about it.

On the one hand, her deep resentment for her mom was there (understandably). But at the same time, she didn't know how to deal with it since she (Mom) was very ill and needed the daughter's attention.

It was quite an emotional conundrum for her. And the aspects in her chart at the time also suggested it.🙏🏿

posted January 15, 2022 10:12 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:

Yes.Plu in 4th can be the "uncovering" of the foundation (4th) that one was brought up under. If it was deceptive, there could rage felt by the native because of this.

Pluto in 4th often suggests secrets in the home life or living with someone whom wants absolute autonomy over everything (including you). Whatever the manifestation, Plu typically suggests that "all is not as it seems" (this includes the square)

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This right here is exactly what happened. Haha funny thing is that my mom is also a Scorpio sun and my dad a Scorpio moon. When i got older my mom started spilling the beans about what really went on in our home and with both of them i saw the "Plutonian" attitude, esp in the home. It felt unsafe because of my dad and a lot of deception from my mom. I also was very secretive and much more private about my family than my brother.