posted June 30, 2022 11:31 AM            

I would love anyone's take on him.

posted June 30, 2022 11:48 AM            

this is the birth time his mother gave, but she gave it from memory. He does have Libra characteristics, but he is short (5'7") and very very stocky.

posted June 30, 2022 11:52 AM              

NPD is most often linked to a strong focus on Mars energy with a lack of focus on Venus, Neptune, Jupiter, and Sun planetary wise. Particularly things like Mars conjunct the Asc, Mars in the 1st, Mars near the MidHeaven in major aspect to the Asc, Mars conjunct or opposed the chart ruler, etc are some examples that show a very strong Mars attunement.

Pluto and Saturn strong (Planetary wise!), can definitely contribute to NPD. But these can also go darker/worse than NPD as well, if they are stronger than Mars. Pluto though, is a bit of a wild card and can correlate to faster vibratory patterns.

Signs are less important in all of this than Planetary strengths, but yes, very strong focus on especially Personal Signs (especially Aries) can indicate a higher than average focus on self in an unhealthy way. But Signs are more easily mitigated/counter balanced by Planets like Venus, Neptune, Jupiter, and/or Sun.

Uranus: I mention Uranus, because if the chart is relatively correct, then Uranus is the predominant planet in this chart. Uranus is put too much on a pedestal by the astrological community and mainstream. Uranus very much has a dark side.

For example, Edgar Cayce was told that he was a Uranian (it was conjunct his Asc), and he was told, irrespective of freewill, that due to his very powerful attunement to Uranus, that he would either be very good or very bad.

This is a Planet of extremes and going to same, but different than Pluto which is another Planet of extremes. Where Pluto is the slow burn, volcanic process of extremes building up, Uranus is the bipolar like, constantly shifting back and forth from slow to fast vibration.

This is due, at a core level, to the Higher/Expanded self level creating the Uranian Soul from a stark contrast of other lifetimes/memories/energetic patterns from a set of fast vibratory experiences/selves and a set of slow vibratory experiences/selves.

This became very apparent when one looked into Edgar's own "Life Readings" for himself and his own past life influences. He/his Soul was made up of an odd combo (not blend, as that implies mixing) of both very fast vibratory and very slow vibratory influences.

And it was like there was a constant battle and tug of war within him, towards one or the other side.

When Uranians lose that war, they can indeed get very ugly. Enter in, folks like Bill Gates who are power/control maniacs. Or Hitler, who was another Uranian gone bad. Neither of these men were born highly or more fully negative. But via life influences and use/abuse of freewill, they went more and more in that direction.

posted June 30, 2022 12:00 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by StoneMoon:
he's short. and actually it was that comment and that thread that made me think of him.

this is the birth time his mother gave, but she gave it from memory. He does have Libra characteristics, but he is short (5'7") and very very stocky.

Prone to lying, cheating, and charming everyone he meets. I'm not certain Saturn in the 8th really fits him either- he gets tons of help from people, lives rent free and his mother enables him and pays many of his bills. He is extremely educated (three upper level degrees), but chooses to work a minimum wage type job. Inappropriate boundaries, much repression, and serious food addiction. He is alone and very emotionally disconnected.

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Yeah, that doesn't fit Uranus conjunct the Libra Ascendant with ruling Planet in Gemini, whatsoever. All 3 of these are taller indications (least so Libra though, as Libra is a sign of moderation and averages. But it is a Yang/masculine sign and the Yang/masculine signs are taller than the Yin/feminine signs generally speaking and in an archetypal way).

I mentioned Edgar Cayce and Nikola Tesla earlier, both had Uranus somewhat closely conjunct their Asc. Both men were 6' 2" and scrawny/skinny for most of their lives. This is the most common archetype for Uranus conjunct the Asc. Considering they were born in the 1800's, that was unusually tall for their times. Equivalent in our times to around like 6' 4" to 6' 5". And Tesla had Taurus Rising, which in a Sign archetype sense is not a tall indication by any means.

But, Uranus is that of the extremes and the unusual. It could connect to someone being shorter than average, but if it is going to do that, it will be considerably so. Like dwarfism/near dwarfism. 5' 7" while shorter than average, it is not unusually/extremely so. Also, the stocky part doesn't fit Uranus at all, because Uranus is so high strung, that they burn off energy like crazy.

posted June 30, 2022 12:10 PM            

I still don't have a solid grasp on him, after knowing him for 25 years. I suppose it's possible he's not a narcissist, just playing himself a victim. He feels very entitled in life.

posted June 30, 2022 12:35 PM              

You can find many narcissists within both categories, and in the middle category.

At it's core, it is an unhealthy, obsessive focus on self, with a corresponding lack of affective empathy and conscience in relation to others--but not total lack as that is a ASPD trait. Folks within NPD spectrum have a little bit of affective empathy and conscience, and can feel things like shame, guilt, etc still, unlike psychopaths and sociopaths (aka ASPD).

Other than that, personalities, lifestyles, etc, can really vary quite a bit.

Regarding astrology. The Rising/Ascendant Signs that most connect to being shorter than average and also stocky or prone to gaining weight more easily, are Taurus, Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces in about that order of strength of most to less so. Sagittarius sometimes in their latter years are prone to gaining weight (because of their usually big appetites), but in their youth, they usually have fast metabolisms.

Planets which contribute to a slower metabolism (when conjunct the Asc or in strong aspect to same from amplified areas of the chart) are Moon, Venus, sometimes Jupiter (again, more usually an appetite and/or sensitivity thing than a straight metabolism thing), sometimes Sun (but much less so in a males chart).

Note how it is primarily the Yin/feminine symbols that most strongly align with/correlate with this. This is one of those "As above, so below" type correlations. Just as women tend to be shorter and have slower metabolisms and gain weight more easily then men, which tend to have faster metabolisms and tend to be taller.

posted June 30, 2022 12:58 PM              

She is not a bad or extremely negative person by any means. But I noticed in interaction with her, that she was very self focused. Almost all the time, the conversation was about her, she almost never asked me any questions about myself (until I pointed this out one time, and then the next time I saw her, she did ask how I was doing), and multiple times, I saw her staring at her reflection excessively. History of many relationships. But she was very charming and engaging. Came across as very warm and alive, though I sensed a hidden sadness and heaviness in her. Mask/persona projection in other words.

Again, a very mild case. Not harmful to others. Actually partakes in some positive service to others, and is trying to better herself. Maybe a NPD in recovery or might not be a full, clinical narcissist to begin with. Actually, on a Soul level, as Venus seemed to be her strongest Planet (in the 10th and one of the only Angular Planets), I think she is closer to being a middle aged, than younger soul. But something or multiple things apparently happened in her life to shift her focus very strongly on self, probably as a self defense/protective mechanism.

It seemed/felt like we had a past life connection of some kind, and I think I came in her life to try to spark some energetic changes. I did her chart for her. She has Aqua Moon in my 7th conjunct my Aqua Venus, which rules my Moon. I was initially romantically interested in her until I started to see these red flags, and was like, "fudge, I'm being attracted again to yet another low level narcissist" (I have a pattern/history of this).

I should also know by now, that synastrically, Venus Mars squares are something I should avoid. But damyam she was cute, and has a great singing voice.

posted June 30, 2022 01:11 PM            

I just can't figure him out. We were married and together 15 years. All I ever saw was charm and a super friendly guy. Once we separated, due to his infidelity and lying, all kinds of stories came out. He takes no responsibility, avoided having a job for years until he was forced to work, doesn't pay bills, doesn't pay child support... yet knows how to come out looking like the winner.

He doesn't talk about himself, he talks about others. In fact, he avoids deep conversations and feelings like the plague. He would rather throw money at you than actually have to deal with something. Maybe he's not a narcissist, just someone acting out of pain. And he would say I am the narcissist in the picture if you were to ask him. I am sure the majority of us think our former partners are jerks, and in the wrong.

posted June 30, 2022 01:59 PM              

And since the human body comes equipped with ego (which is protective, self defense mechanism relating to fear), we ALL have an inner narcissist. We need some ego to survive and get stuff done in this world.

Also, these things are spectrum's, and people exist on fluid spectrum's of consciousness. We can go up and down the spectrum of consciousness of pure fear/pure separative selfishness to that of pure Love/Oneness consciousness.

The choices we make and how we exercise our freewill, is what moves us either up or down that spectrum of consciousness. You can see these corresponding changes in the auras of people, but you can't see it in a Natal chart, as the Natal chart is static and only represents/symbolizes the most probable patterns for a person, irrespective of freewill.

With that said, narcissism, psychopathy, etc are still real issues. But some people might be close to the borders of same, but not full, clinically, pathologically on that spectrum. Not enough, at least, to be labeled this or that.

That is why I said, the woman I talked about, was either a very mild narcissist or not quite fully on the spectrum to begin with. And either way, she seems to be in a process of trying to change for the better. We both became mutually disinterested in each other around the same time. I thought she had a boyfriend, as the second time we met, she introduced a guy as her boyfriend, and so I kept things platonic and as she never asked, I never mentioned that I was in a (poly) relationship. But I could tell she had some attraction to me.

But after I did her chart for her, I found out that she didn't have a committed boyfriend--the guy I had met was apparently a date, and so I told her, hey, here is my situation, I'm in a long term, committed relationship but we are poly.

But this was around the same time that I started to see these red flags in her behavior, and she apparently lost interest in me when she found out I was in a long time relationship, which, I think for her, was a good, healthy choice/decision. Her chart indicated that she had certain kind of unhealthy relationship patterns. I/my situation, would not have been a step in the right direction for her, and I'm glad we mutually parted ways amicably before any kind of karma/drama may have built up.

posted June 30, 2022 02:11 PM            

I like your perspective of us all being on spectrums. And certain circumstances can bring us in either direction on that spectrum. And I am sure we need those lows and negatives to help us learn the lessons that help us evolve and become better... but it sure is hard watching people (or ourselves) go down the wrong way. At the end of the day, most of us really are here for ourselves anyway I guess.

posted June 30, 2022 02:19 PM              

I don't know if you have seen it or not, but I've talked about how I was harassed and stalked a bit by a guy initially on an astrology forum (and who ended up being, come to find out, a famous celebrity actor)?

Well this guy masked well in public. He rarely talked about himself. In fact, he seemed to be "trying" to be his Aquarius North Node, as he almost made a point to be impersonal in his communications with others.

But turns out that he has very strong Pluto and Scorpio combo, and really what it was, is secretiveness based on fear and self protection. Not as others focused as he comes off (and technically, he is a Libra Sun).

Anyways, the interesting and "rich" thing about this interaction, is that the guy believed and tried to convince others on that forum, that I was the narcissisist. At the time, I had T. Saturn in my 1st and T. Pluto squaring my Natal Saturn-Moon conjunction, and as I was young and less mature, and going through some stuff, I was indeed more self focused at the time.

I had just come out of a period where for 20 years previously, I almost never talked, let alone about myself. I was very Moon-Saturn conjunction during this period. But around this time of joining the forum, my Leo and Jupiter sides started to come out more, and I started to become much more self expressive and communicative. After all, I have 0* Virgo (but very closely cusping Leo) North Node in the 1st House, with Mercury widely conjunct Sun, my chart ruler.

Anyways, it was an interesting experience of shadow projection. This guy is likely a true narcissist, and was projecting his own disowned shadow onto me.

Besides his behavior towards me and later a friend of mine, besides that he is in the weird Hollywood celebrity scene (which undoubtedly has a higher percentage of folks on the NPD spectrum than many other professions), etc, other things strongly suggest this. Habitual, perennial bachelor where he dated women half to a third of his age (common trait/tendency of male narcissists to serially date much younger women than themselves), and some other things like reading about an interview over a dinner with a female journalist where he pulled out a spiritual book and wanted her to read the disciple part while he read the "master" part.

posted June 30, 2022 02:32 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by StoneMoon:
The woman you talked about seems like so many other people in the world. And how much can be attributed to societal norms- social media and selfies and reels all about ourselves?

I like your perspective of us all being on spectrums. And certain circumstances can bring us in either direction on that spectrum. And I am sure we need those lows and negatives to help us learn the lessons that help us evolve and become better... but it sure is hard watching people (or ourselves) go down the wrong way. At the end of the day, most of us really are here for ourselves anyway I guess.

Anyway, how did you learn to read auras? And where does much of your study in astrology come from? I feel like so much of what is available to us in books is really only surface knowledge, not true understanding.

---

Yes, I do think our society, via things like FB and the like, may be moving in more narcissistic type directions. And generally, there seems to be a polarization happening, between those who are service to self and service to others focused. This is highlighting and contrasting the various extremes.

I don't read auras conventionally, in that I don't physically see them like some sensitives do (I have on a couple occasions, but it has been very rare). More so, when younger, I began to intuitively realize all these connections between various different metaphysics and nonphysical topics.

So I essentially sat down, meditated, researched, intuited, etc for awhile the different connections through a combo of intuition and holistic logic. When I was doing charts more actively and regularly, I would tune into the people on a deeper level and try to correlate their charts and strongest energies to what I was feeling/picking up aurically. After awhile, I got pretty good at "guessing" people's favorite colors and the like from this intuitive attunement and connecting the dots.

Turns out, that we tend to follow a creational law/rule of "Like attracts, begets, resonates with, and likes Like" on a deeper level. Meaning, the colors we most prefer, often are the colors strongest in our own aura, though occasionally, just like in relationships, we are also attracted to the colors opposite of our strongest colors. For example, if the color yellow is very strong in your aura and you are perhaps over lopsided to same, you may find yourself being attracted to violet and purples both in color or in people with those colors very strong.

Influenced most by Cayce work and some astrologers also influenced by that work, like Stephen Arroyo, as far as outer sources go. But some others here and there like Isabel M. Hicky, etc. But read a lot of different stuff, most of which I forget the exact names and titles now. But a lot of the classics like Hand, Llewellyn, etc

Also, just a long time of doing this. Next year, it will be 3 decades exact of focus on this topic. (started age 13 and am 42 now). Having my chart ruler, the Sun in Capricorn, widely conjunct Cap Merc, indicates a drive/ambition/focus to master that which is an interest to self. And practice tends to perfect over time.

posted June 30, 2022 02:34 PM            

What about people with hero complexes? Besides this former husband, I have met many others who like, as they put it, a "wounded bird" for a partner. It makes them seem like good samaritans, but really it feeds their need to be bigger, better, and a hero.

posted June 30, 2022 03:21 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by StoneMoon:
And that's where people get creepy. You never know who you are talking to on forums, do you???

What about people with hero complexes? Besides this former husband, I have met many others who like, as they put it, a "wounded bird" for a partner. It makes them seem like good samaritans, but really it feeds their need to be bigger, better, and a hero.

If a common trait of NPD is dating people much younger (and how does this show for female NPDS?), what about people in lower circumstances? It serves a similar purpose does it not?

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Yes and no. At a deeper level, we are all completely interconnected. There is no real separation though this dimension of linear space/time perpetuates the illusion of separation quite well.

If a person attunes more and more to that Oneness, then it is easier and easier to consciously perceive anything about anything or anyone no matter the seeming space or time distance/separation. Or, to paraphrase Cayce's guidance on the topic, "Who was the most psychic person to ever live? One Jesus of Nazareth because he was love [Oneness] personified".

Hero complex could possibly relate to male narcissism I suppose, though I would call it more of a classic male trait and more specifically a classic male Leo trait. But yes, it certainly does relate to ego. I have a little bit of that in self, I've noticed having Leo Asc and Sun in Cap. One of the bigger temptations of my life, was when the other woman I have spoken of much more often here and who I was insanely attracted to, asked me for my help in healing her. That was like E drugged up music to my egoic ears at the time.

But, as I wanted to be truly helpful and honest with her (and not take away any of her power), I explained to her, that is not how it works. The real healing comes through your connection to Source and to Love. Others can facilitate some perceptual or energetic changes or the like, but at the end of the day, it is only really ourselves that can heal ourselves, especially at that core level.

That's a good question. Tbh, I don't know the common traits/behaviors of female narcissists as far as dating and age etc. There seems is less literature out there on female narcissists.

But back to the hero thing, perhaps something worthwhile to mention. When it comes to female and female type porn (which by and large comes in the form of "romance novels"), market research indicates there is a very powerful trend of females preferring romance novels based on certain hyper male archetypes: Billionaires, vampires, werewolves, pirates, and the like. The thing they all have in common? These are all powerful, dangerous, "bad boy" archetypes.

Why are women so turned on by this? And why do so many women serially go for the "bad/wild boys" IRL?

While I'm not a general fan of him, Peterson gave a very interesting answer to this, and indicated it related to the female hero journey. The female tends to integrate her own Yang side, by finding a wild male and trying to domesticate and tame him, or to use horse rearing language, to "break him". That is how she tends, unconsciously, to try to integrate her own masculine-Yang power.

So, is not the female doing similar by finding a wounded and/or wild man, and trying to either "heal" and "fix" him or trying to tame and domesticate him?

Interesting no? Why is it so easy to see the issue in the men, but not the women? Probably because of human ego, which we both and all have.

posted June 30, 2022 05:57 PM            

Veering off topic- I remember reading about Moon Uranus aspects in women indicating lifelines of fighting against male dominance and male dominated societies. This was a hallmark of a woman trying to balance her yin and yang qualities.

posted June 30, 2022 07:17 PM              

One of the reasons why I think so, is because Cayce's guidance called Uranus that of the psychic (besides the extremes and unusual as previously mentioned).

I've found that to be psychic and to have psychic experiences (especially in the receiving/perceiving sense), one must temporarily polarize to the Yin and right brain side of things. It's somewhat like the process and feeling of meditation. Getting quiet and still within and just listening and being receptive. That is a very Yin process/attunement.

This is also why those in female bodies tend to be more actively psychic and intuitive than men, as a trend.

But I can see where some folks might think that about Moon Uranus aspects, as besides the association with Yang energy, Uranus is also associated with rebellion and flaunting norms/conventions.

Dunno if there is a connection, as I haven't personally investigated it. My partner has had some lifetimes of rebelling, as a woman, against male dominated power structures and the like, and she doesn't have a major Moon Uranus aspect, but she does have Aries Moon opposed a Jupiter Saturn conjunction in Libra.

For example, one of her past life dreams was about being a female captain of a ship in Greece (who was initially befriended by and then betrayed by Romans).

With her Aquarius Sun conjunct South Node in the first, Aqua Venus, Aries Moon, chart ruler very closely conjunct Jupiter, and Mercury conjunct Mars--she is a bit of a wildwoman, very independent in some ways, etc.

Actually, come to think of it, she does have a wide and out of of Sign trine of Uranus to her Moon. (28* Scorp 10th House Uranus and 5* Aries Moon). But all in all, I would see it more connected to her Aqua Sun conjunct South Node and Aries Moon opposed Saturn combo. Sun and Saturn are perhaps the most "patriarchal" symbols.

Yeah, I agree, the best learning and teaching is via direct experience, practice, and observation.

posted July 08, 2022 08:09 PM            

Rich. Poor. Black. White. Scorpio. Libra. etc.

The chart really doesn't matter when speaking specifically about diagnosis.

The chart comes into play when we start trying to figure out what type of narcissist the person is and how they might act.

A Scorpio with NPD with mars opposite Saturn is going to abuse totally different than someone with NPD who's a Pisces and has no mars aspects.

A Scorpio might be the obsessive type of narcissist, not really into discarding, but devaluing their supply over and over.

A Pisces might be the passive-aggressive type, using religion as a way to gain followers aka "flying monkeys".

A narcissist can be a priest or a janitor. Your partner and/ or your father.

But if we want to reference the charts specifically, I'll add my 2 cents:

Uranus/ Neptune in hard aspect to mercury (Narcissists think very differently than "normal" people)

Pluto/ Saturn in hard aspect to mars/ moon (Narcissists are calculating, cold, and psychologically abusive)