posted January 14, 2023 11:00 PM            

In psychology this trauma is believed to cause the push-pull dynamics later on in adult relationships.

posted January 15, 2023 09:10 AM            

emotional abandonment and worst childhood i‘ve ever heard of. completely devoid of motherly love accompanied with a useless father. their moon is either sag or cap depending on TOB.

sun or moon 12H can point to an actual absent father or mother.
sun 12H my ex best friend - never knew fatherly love or her father as a person for that matter. disfunctional relationships with men for most of her life. her saturn squares her sun as well.

posted January 15, 2023 11:42 AM            

Personal planets in the 12th

Sun conjunct chiron

Moon/Pluto

My mother was and is still unable to emotionally connect with others. Not even her children. She has a TBI from before I was born and there was no emotion below surface level from her and never will be.

My father was an addict and died of an overdose when I was 16, he was my only source of emotional support.

I think there are many factors that can show emotional abandonment. In my case my Sun/chiron in the 12th showed an absent father.

posted January 15, 2023 02:09 PM            

Dons2angelss, I am sorry for your loss. You brought up a lot of great points. I had not paid attention to Chiron, Pluto, 12th house and Venus/Saturn aspects before when studying emotional abandonment.

posted January 16, 2023 04:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by @eloquent__sky:
problematique, it is so interesting that with Moon square Uranus and Neptune you felt showered with love. Your desire to run away, would you say was because you found the love you received confusing or limiting in any way? Such as a paternal attempt to hinder your individual independence? I know someone with an aspect from their Moon to Uranus and Neptune (a softer aspect) and they also told me they had dreamed of leaving home as a child. Apparently after watching a TV show where it turned out the children were being raised by someone who wasn't their real mother, so they ran away. This person told me she was scolded by her mother that day, and after watching the show, she packed herself and her little sister and sneaked out of the house in rain. Evidently the father found them on his way back home. I thought it was a hilarious story but at the same time it must have been such a horror for the parents.

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hey, i have oppositions from neptune and uranus to my moon but yes. it’s just… when i say showered with love i mean showered with control, rules, attention but in a way - love. my parents wouldn’t let me be on my own so the love felt overprotective. they wanted to be involved in every aspect of my life. i also have saturn conjunct ic so. shocker shocker.

my mother was controlling to the point of me not crossing the street on my own without her peering at me and i was in my 20s then.
there were times i wished she’d rather left me on the streets when i was a kid than loved me in a way she did. so i always felt a brick on my shoulders from that much attention. it was like aggressive sort of love… like… they aggressively cared about me, i was the center of their entire world. i call that “love” because i know a person who never even had a mother and they’d trade with me in an instant. i don’t know if that’s love.
i couldn’t breathe in that house, thank god i left.

posted January 20, 2023 03:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by visions:
i will say moon conjunct chiron with some square/opposition with saturn

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Great observation. Moon-Chiron aspects are indeed believed to cause an insatiable emotional need from parents and partners.

posted January 22, 2023 10:33 AM            

There's a wonderful article that appeared in the journal Psychological Perspectives by a Jungian therapist of the Hansel and Gretel fairytale. The article addresses this theme of childhood abandonment in connection with the archetype of the Dark Mother, the shadow aspect of the Great Mother, which is personified in this fairy tale.

The Dark Mother archetype relates to both Moon-Saturn and Moon-Pluto in hard aspect, including the conjunction.

Also Moon in the 12H can indicate loss or abandonment of the mother. Moon in the 12H theme is illustrated in the Persephone myth and the central figures of Demeter, the mother, and Kore/Persephone, the daughter.

Of course, emotional abandonment can be related to the father also. Regarding abandonment involving the father, what comes to mind are hard aspects of Saturn to the Sun, Saturn in the 12H, and Sun in the 8H or 12H.

posted January 22, 2023 01:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dhyana:
For amplification and insight into this theme from an archetypal perspective, I find myth and fairytales rich in insight for understanding the meaning and experience of aspects in the chart.

There's a wonderful article that appeared in the journal Psychological Perspectives by a Jungian therapist of the Hansel and Gretel fairytale. The article addresses this theme of childhood abandonment in connection with the archetype of the Dark Mother, the shadow aspect of the Great Mother, which is personified in this fairy tale.

The Dark Mother archetype relates to both Moon-Saturn and Moon-Pluto in hard aspect, including the conjunction.

Also Moon in the 12H can indicate loss or abandonment of the mother. Moon in the 12H theme is illustrated in the Persephone myth and the central figures of Demeter, the mother, and Kore/Persephone, the daughter.

Of course, emotional abandonment can be related to the father also. Regarding abandonment involving the father, what comes to mind are hard aspects of Saturn to the Sun, Saturn in the 12H, and Sun in the 8H or 12H.

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posted January 22, 2023 09:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
This is very interesting to me, given my own mother experience, my own children have aspects that echo my own childhood. My oldest has a virgo moon conjunct Saturn, my youngest has Aquarius moon sextile Saturn.
I know my own downfalls where being a mother is concerned and I think that shows in my children's charts. When my first was born I was very much in survival mode and very unstable. We had to move a lot and his father abandoned us before he was born. As a result I was extremely protective of him. I loosened the reins quite a bit when I had my 2nd son 7 years later but the first 2 or so years of his life I was still calming my own emotions and the relationship with his father was still on the unstable side. He adopted my oldest and since our split we have learned to co parent very well and get along nicely, to the point we go on vacations together as a family. It's taken years of self reflection to see the mother I was and who I need to be for them so I do not pass on the torch my own mother gave me. It's an insanely difficult cycle to break.

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Dons2angelss, thank you so much for sharing. It's inspiring to hear that you took on this pattern and overcame it. That you have become a mature and wise mother, the positive expression of Moon-Saturn. That is a great accomplishment! Moon-Pluto people that I'm aware of can have a great capacity for amazing personal changes.

By the way, as you may know, Moon-Saturn isn't invariably as dark as the characters in the fairy tale. Sometimes, it can manifest as external hardships and difficult circumstances, and doesn't always reflect the negative character of the mother.

posted January 22, 2023 09:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
My Uranus is conjunct my descendant/sn in the 7th

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posted January 23, 2023 12:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dhyana:
So, the NNode is in the 1H. With Uranus in the 7H, do you think Uranus reinforced going against the line of least resistance of the SNode and supporting the NNode goal of self-reliance and independence?

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posted January 24, 2023 11:06 PM            

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posted February 19, 2023 09:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by problematique:
a person i know has:
moon square mars
moon square saturn

emotional abandonment and worst childhood i‘ve ever heard of. completely devoid of motherly love accompanied with a useless father. their moon is either sag or cap depending on TOB.

sun or moon 12H can point to an actual absent father or mother.
sun 12H my ex best friend - never knew fatherly love or her father as a person for that matter. disfunctional relationships with men for most of her life. her saturn squares her sun as well.

however, not every affliction to the sun or moon points to anything so serious. i think it really depends. i have moon afflicted by neptune and uranus but i had too much parental love in my childhood to the point it became overbearing and controlling so i’d practically be closing myself off from my parents, especially mother. i dreamed of running away and never going back.

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I have moon square uranus and neptune but also trine Saturn and I kind of get where you're coming from.

My father is an undiagnosed Narcissist and the verdict is still out on my mother. They've been friends and in each other's lived since my mother was 9. They have this Willoughby (animated movie) vibe that hides their deeper issues. I feel so smothered by the gooey fluffiness of it all because i know something isn't right about it. They've been married for years and still seem mostly happy but im not buying it. I've seen too many cracks in the foundation.. as a kid and as an adult.