posted January 30, 2023 09:18 AM            

I'm wondering about your preferred house system.

Honestly, I find the "default" option, Placidus, on Astro to be entirely whack. I don't think our puny perspective on Earth has anything to do with the cosmos, besides establishing the AC. I think it is absurd to imply that in this giant solar system, the latitude from Earth matters. It doesn't! That is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I use Equal housing. I find it accurate, logical. It doesn't make any sense to me to use any house system other than equal, except maybe Whole Signs. I have looked into this massively; from house rulers to houses in general, Equal housing is consistent, accurate, reliable. Placidus gives false positives. You may think your planets are in your partner's 8H and then wonder why it's not panning out steamy and hot like you wanted. Well, it's because its not in their 8th, its their 9th...

I find the only reason Placidus is in use is because people assume the default option must be the best. Most esteemed astrologers I follow and learn from use Equal housing as well.

The only consideration with equal housing is that the 4th and 10th house cusp does not necessarily equal the IC and MC. I find the IC and MC are more "points" than they are the 4th and 10th house cusps.

posted January 30, 2023 11:16 AM            

I've had to compare and contrast house systems in order to do the technical rectification work that I did for over a decade. This involved research to establish which house system was most reliable. No doubt it is Placidus.

The so-called equal house system is not really a house system. It is more an avoidance of the four-dimensional issues involved in defining what a house system is, which is a division of the sky for the purpose of effectively defining for the individual how that spheric space should be divided. This requires either geometric perception and/or mathematical knowledge the average follower of astrology does not have (or at least doesn't use in their approach to astrology).

anevolena, your statements about house systems show that you are treating the flat wheel chart as if it is an accurate representation of the three-dimensional sky. It is not. There is no need for a four-dimensional (3D + time) moving sky to fit the parameters of charts on paper. We're in the computer age still using charts as if they were drawn on paper instead of exploring new methods of seeing and charting the sky that are closer to reality. As soon as you include the north-south movement of the planets (declination) you can see how incomplete the flat wheel chart is. This plays very much into creating accurate house systems because if you cannot anchor a house cusp in both longitude and declination, then you do not actually have a point in space (along the ecliptic), but a faux representation of the sky as if it were just east-west (+ time).

It is declinations that were very key to me being able to test house systems and verify that Placidus is the most accurate system we have -- at least within normal ranges of latitude (up to 55-60° north/south).

------------------

Astrological gemstone readings for your energetic balance, healing, and soul development. http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/services/

posted January 31, 2023 01:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by anevolena:
Hello all,

I'm wondering about your preferred house system.

Honestly, I find the "default" option, Placidus, on Astro to be entirely whack. I don't think our puny perspective on Earth has anything to do with the cosmos, besides establishing the AC. I think it is absurd to imply that in this giant solar system, the latitude from Earth matters. It doesn't! That is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I use Equal housing. I find it accurate, logical. It doesn't make any sense to me to use any house system other than equal, except maybe Whole Signs. I have looked into this massively; from house rulers to houses in general, Equal housing is consistent, accurate, reliable. Placidus gives false positives. You may think your planets are in your partner's 8H and then wonder why it's not panning out steamy and hot like you wanted. Well, it's because its not in their 8th, its their 9th...

I find the only reason Placidus is in use is because people assume the default option must be the best. Most esteemed astrologers I follow and learn from use Equal housing as well.

The only consideration with equal housing is that the 4th and 10th house cusp does not necessarily equal the IC and MC. I find the IC and MC are more "points" than they are the 4th and 10th house cusps.

---

Wow. Interesting. 🤔

posted February 01, 2023 12:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The so-called equal house system is not really a house system. It is more an avoidance of the four-dimensional issues involved in defining what a house system is, which is a division of the sky for the purpose of effectively defining for the individual how that spheric space should be divided. This requires either geometric perception and/or mathematical knowledge the average follower of astrology does not have (or at least doesn't use in their approach to astrology).

anevolena, your statements about house systems show that you are treating the flat wheel chart as if it is an accurate representation of the three-dimensional sky. It is not. There is no need for a four-dimensional (3D + time) moving sky to fit the parameters of charts on paper. We're in the computer age still using charts as if they were drawn on paper instead of exploring new methods of seeing and charting the sky that are closer to reality. As soon as you include the north-south movement of the planets (declination) you can see how incomplete the flat wheel chart is. This plays very much into creating accurate house systems because if you cannot anchor a house cusp in both longitude and declination, then you do not actually have a point in space (along the ecliptic), but a faux representation of the sky as if it were just east-west (+ time).

---

See, I disagree with this. I don't think declinations have any place in a house system. Declinations are valuable on their own, but they are a separate axis. House systems define our perspective, they tell the story of life from birth to death. It makes so much sense that these partitions are equally divided.

In fact, for this reason, I think the house systems are SUPPOSED to represent a "faux version of the sky, just east and west." I think house systems represent the most basic, ideal form of the sky. The fact that things are different from our point on earth is a beautiful, but I like to view house systems as a "cross section" from a perspective outside Earth. As if God is looking down, and God's perfect perspective is the house system.

Symbolically, it makes most sense for houses to be equal. The 4H for example; it is the most private, deep house in the wheel (save for maybe the 12H). It is the bottom of the chart. So, if ones sun is in the 4H, it is private, rooted, focused on the home and family and ones base. For the sun to be in the 4H, in equal housing, it is the middle of the night; no one can see the sun, it is hidden from view, it is deeeeeeeep within the native.

Likewise, a 10H sun means one is focused on their status in the world, theyre focused on their reputation, the way the world views them. That is because it is midday; the sun is on full display, high in the sky, for everyone to see and admire.

The house placements directly contribute to their meaning.

So, with other house systems, the midday position of the sun may not fall into the 10H. Or, the 10H is aligned somewhere that's not a Publicly On Display position.

Again, declinations could be a consideration, but they are considered separately.

I just don't believe our perspective on Earth has any place defining houses, besides the ascendant. The Zodiac is archetypal, tells a story. Thus, all archetypes should be represented equally. I think the Cosmos are more significant than our perspective, and the Zodiac should not have to conform to us.

posted February 01, 2023 03:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by anevolena:
Also, for what its worth, my chart is entirely unaccurate with Placidus.

---

The most likely explanation for that is that your Asc figure is not accurate.

Dons2angelss summed up the most important point most succinctly.

------------------

Astrological gemstone readings for your energetic balance, healing, and soul development. http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/services/

posted February 01, 2023 03:58 PM            

I'll just add that your use of the concept of 'equal' in your response shows that are giving it a presumptive definition of distance (arc space). Placidus is one of the time-based systems in which division of the semi-arc is based on time-lapse, not distance. There is equality there, but based on understanding Earth rotation.

posted February 02, 2023 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The most likely explanation for that is that your Asc figure is not accurate.

---

I know my ascendant is accurate.

posted February 02, 2023 07:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by anevolena:
See, I disagree with this. I don't think declinations have any place in a house system. Declinations are valuable on their own, but they are a separate axis. House systems define our perspective, they tell the story of life from birth to death. It makes so much sense that these partitions are equally divided.

In fact, for this reason, I think the house systems are SUPPOSED to represent a "faux version of the sky, just east and west." I think house systems represent the most basic, ideal form of the sky. The fact that things are different from our point on earth is a beautiful, but I like to view house systems as a "cross section" from a perspective outside Earth. As if God is looking down, and God's perfect perspective is the house system.

Symbolically, it makes most sense for houses to be equal. The 4H for example; it is the most private, deep house in the wheel (save for maybe the 12H). It is the bottom of the chart. So, if ones sun is in the 4H, it is private, rooted, focused on the home and family and ones base. For the sun to be in the 4H, in equal housing, it is the middle of the night; no one can see the sun, it is hidden from view, it is deeeeeeeep within the native.

Likewise, a 10H sun means one is focused on their status in the world, theyre focused on their reputation, the way the world views them. That is because it is midday; the sun is on full display, high in the sky, for everyone to see and admire.

The house placements directly contribute to their meaning.

So, with other house systems, the midday position of the sun may not fall into the 10H. Or, the 10H is aligned somewhere that's not a Publicly On Display position.

Again, declinations could be a consideration, but they are considered separately.

I just don't believe our perspective on Earth has any place defining houses, besides the ascendant. The Zodiac is archetypal, tells a story. Thus, all archetypes should be represented equally. I think the Cosmos are more significant than our perspective, and the Zodiac should not have to conform to us.

Also, for what its worth, my chart is entirely unaccurate with Placidus.

---

I agree that the zodiac in of itself is archetypal and tells a story but, all are not created equal in each individual. Your interpretation of the 10th house sun completely undermines the fact of birth place. If I were born in Australia my sun would be in my first house... Ridiculous for me to even try to imagine that. It doesn't fit me in the slightest. Whole sign my moon is in the 5th (like Australia) absolutely nothing about me describes a 5th house moon, I feel like the antithesis of that. My 12th and 6th houses are much larger in placidus, essentially eating up most of my planets and perfectly describing me. It's that way because I chose that specific chart, at that specific time, at that specific place. That matters a great deal and should be looked at when doing a most accurate reading.
By your assumptions, relocation charts would be useless too, just me personal experience they are accurate pretty accurate. If I were born in the southern hemisphere my chart would look drastically different because you have to take in account of how the cosmos look from your exact point. It makes a huge difference. If you agree that place of birth matters, then how can you say nothing else does and your basing your readings on what the houses/signs/planets mean in general instead of how uniquely they are being represented by that person as a whole? It just doesn't make sense to me to be so unspecific. Your birth chart is your story (or it's potential). Whole house systems disregard the individuality of each person to each chart. That's why place and time of birth are critical when you want the most accurate reading. Placidus takes into account not only the way the sky and cosmos look to us from our specific point on Earth, but how they are affecting us.

posted February 03, 2023 07:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I agree that the zodiac in of itself is archetypal and tells a story but, all are not created equal in each individual. Your interpretation of the 10th house sun completely undermines the fact of birth place. If I were born in Australia my sun would be in my first house... Ridiculous for me to even try to imagine that. It doesn't fit me in the slightest.

---

Dons2angelss,

Are you saying you weren’t born in Australia, and that if you were, it wouldn’t make sense?

If that is so, I’d agree, being born in a different time zone will change your ascendant so your houses would be completely different and we would be different people. I think that would be consistent no matter what the house system.

posted February 18, 2023 12:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
An astrology friend posted about a huge argument that's been going on about whole sign houses. I saw Chris Brennan mention it on twitter, too, but haven't listened to it, because I'm not sure how much I care.

If I used whole signs, my Mars would move to my fifth house. Jupiter to the sixth, Pluto to the twelfth. Uranus to the first. Moon and Venus to the eighth, instead of just being conjunct the cusp. Moon is usually in the seventh.

---

I saw this. I think a British Astrologer named Deborah Houlding started this?

I think (if I understand it correctly) she claimed that there is no evidence of Whole House system being used in ancient texts. And that its a system that was devised in modern times by Robert Hand and others.

Robert Hand (the "Gandalf" of modern Astrology as I know) responded to her claims on the Astrology Podcast with Brennan

I find it extremely telling that they BOTH(Deborah and Robert) have Asc in Cancer. Mercury rules their 12th house and 3rd house. So both tend to have an interest "how" and "why" things are the way they are (12th) such as Astrology. And both are very detail oriented in their approach to learning information (3rd house Virgo).

However Robert (Sun,Mercury and Venus) has the stellium of Sag in House 6. So he is a lot more padentic. And it is HE who felt under attack and thus wanted to respond.

Both have Mars ruled signs. Deborah has hers in Aries. She is the type to speak "off the cuff". So this doesn't surprise me really. Mars in Aries often doesn't care who they "offend" when convinced their way is best.

Add to that,Moon is in Virgo parralel exact 1 degree orb to Mars in Aries. So she can be quite assertive of her point of view.

But Robert(Mars/Moon in Sco) isn't the type to back away from a confrontation either. His Moon/Mars contact in passionate Sco may get very emotionally invested in what is happening.

Trans Mars was on Houlding's Merc by conj when the argument was started.Merc (ruler of her 3rd and 12th) is located in the 12th house. So she is always questioning things and usually changes her mind/approach a lot when it comes to 12th house related things.

Mars is located in the 10th house natally. She has no issues being the "fire starter" (if needs be). Mars in 10th house can be known to be the "one man army".

And the effect of transiting Mars on her 3rd house (speech) has definitely rubbed the astrological community (11th house is ruled by Venus also in Gemini by conjunction to transiting Mercury) in all sorts of ways. Aligning to that 10th house reputation of being the "fire starter".

The person whom she "attacked"(Robert) has his stellium in 6th house Sag opposite the tansit of Mars in Gemini. So he definitely feels this "affront". Hence the need for him to defend himself.

Transiting Mars sits on his natal Sun/Mercury/Venus.This is personal. Sun rules his 2nd house of what he values. Venus is the generic indicator of values as well as the ruler of his 4th and 11th house( the ruffle in the astrological community (11th)is affecting him personally (4th)) and Mercury (ruler of his 12th and 3rd) makes him feel like his research (12th) and deductions (3rd) are being brought to disrepute.

Typically, Cancer Asc people are not the type to make noise or cause ruffles . But Deborah does have Mars/Asc square and Mars in 10th. Whilst the MC(public reputation) has the ruler(Jupiter) which is located in the 9th house of Gurus opposing natal Pluto in Virgo in her 3rd house.

So she is the type to challenge(Plu) the "authority"(Jup). This whether its Guru's, long standing publications and teachers of a system etc. Mc in 9th will guarantee her focus and reputation is there.

Interestingly enough, Robert Hand( a big influence in the Astrological community) happens to have Jupiter in the 1st house. Can you see the metaphorical symbolism here? The poetry?

She (Houlding) has natal Pluto-Jup opp and is all about interrogating (Plu)the established order(Jup). And Robert is the biggest representation of an established order (Jup in 1st). So the attack( Mars conj her natal Merc) on Robert (trans Mars/ her natal Merc opp his Sun/Merc/Ven) is echoed by the transits.

I don't expect Astrologers to agree on everything. Doctors don't either. But what i take issue with is people openly attacking others and publicly defacing them. Don't do that. State your pov and then steer clear of mud slinging.

I didn't realize that Robert also has Saturn in Gem 8. Saturn rules his 7th house Cap of "open enemies". This "open" attack by an Astrologer who disagrees with him certainly feels like his reputation is being brought on trial (for him).

Robert has Sat opp the stellium mentioned. He is very hard on himself and is his own worst critic. Its likely that he goes into great pains to thoroughly put his work together. So this "left field" public attack must be very disheartening.

I think the 12th house is connected to Astrology. Saturn is in Robert's 12th. He seems like a traditionalist to me (Sat). A traditionalist who is yryomg to merge the old views with the new perspective (Uranus-Sat conj in Gem).

Houlding(on the other hand) has Mercury in the 12th, she is more contemporary. Even her Saturn in Aqua opp North node in Leo is about opposing the established "norms". She has been like this since birth 🤷🏿‍♂️