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Author Topic:   Giant Meat Eating Plant Discovered
Xodian
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Posts: 130
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2009 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I am a moral being. I evolve consciously, not instinctively. I aspire to model my behavior on my highest conception of compassionate living. Not to treat others (people, animals, plants) according to how they treat others, but, according to how I want to be treated. I know, its mind-blowing. Revolutionary, really.

Valus... You have to be the least action oriented Scorpio I know... And I say this not out of insult but out of astute observation. You say that you aspire to live up to the given values you preach to others but you have yet to prove to me that you can live up to them yourself. A concious effort only goes so far; Until I see you become a true Vegan and give up any sort of animal derived products (including Milk, Eggs, Meat, etc.) then can I would take some merit out of your words. Till then, I really can't take anything you say in regards to this (and as a result... ANY) given subject seriously.

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katatonic
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Posts: 1635
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posted September 05, 2009 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i know what you mean xodian, but many teachers are in the process of learning..."we teach what we need to learn" is a phrase that comes to mind. i have always thought that example is the best teaching method on the planet but i know i am sometimes guilty of trying to show people the rightness of ways which i have not mastered myself...

i think we are a long way from being a vegetarian or vegan society but no harm trying i guess...firstly though i think we need to learn to treat our own species with kindness and respect, and we're a long way off from that too. cannabalism is not long extinct...

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Writesomething
Knowflake

Posts: 1177
From: meet me in montauk
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2009 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Writesomething     Edit/Delete Message
i know the people ive learned from the most were the ones that sticked by their beliefs and lived them. difficult task, yes...but not impossible thru practice. its always difficult to become the model person we picture in our minds.

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katatonic
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Posts: 1635
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posted September 05, 2009 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
yes, and preaching tends to create resistance...which is why example is the best method. but that doesn't mean the imperfect teacher hasn't got good motives.

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Writesomething
Knowflake

Posts: 1177
From: meet me in montauk
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posted September 05, 2009 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Writesomething     Edit/Delete Message
i completely agree.

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Valus
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Posts: 1256
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2009 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Thanks, guys. I'm doing my best to act in accordance with my beliefs, without giving way to denial and contradiction. I believe that animals suffer, and that I should not contribute to suffering, -- therefore I became vegan. I believe in speaking up for those who don't have a voice, and for campaigning for the truth; specifically, important and unpopular truths. It gets me a lot of flack, and a lot of personal attacks. At the end of the day, its not the easiest work in the world, trying to raise consciousness for the sake of these nonhuman animals. I've learned, among other things, that the more unpopular your stance, and the more you stand by it, the more self-righteous you will appear to people who don't share your position. I've learned a lot about fighting for my own truth, even in the face of "violent" opposition. I've learned that most people only know how to make things personal, and not how to debate the issues. I've learned a lot. I'm really surprised with myself and my ability to stand here in the midst of so much bull and spit. I hope I've made an impression and planted some real seeds. I believe there is hope for all of us, to feel empathy for all sentient beings, and to make compassionate choices that honor this sensitivity. It's not easy, but if a slacker like me can do it, I know there must be hope for the rest of us. We can build a more compassionate world, and support each other in the struggle. Instead of accusing each other of preaching, when we stand up for innocent victims, we can say, "Preach, brother! Preach!" It's not easy.

My love to all of you.
My truth communicated.
May you see it soon.


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Valus
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posted September 05, 2009 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Valus... You have to be the least action oriented Scorpio I know... And I say this not out of insult but out of astute observation. You say that you aspire to live up to the given values you preach to others but you have yet to prove to me that you can live up to them yourself. A concious effort only goes so far; Until I see you become a true Vegan and give up any sort of animal derived products (including Milk, Eggs, Meat, etc.) then can I would take some merit out of your words. Till then, I really can't take anything you say in regards to this (and as a result... ANY) given subject seriously.

I hear you, Xodian,
and I completely agree.

That's why I'm completely vegan.

(No milk, eggs, butter,
meat, poultry, or seafood.)

I have been for a few weeks now.

I guess you still missed that
despite your "astute observation".

Anyway, hope that satisfies you.

No need to edit your post.

God Bless

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T
Knowflake

Posts: 1064
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2009 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message
LOL Unmoved. & I believe we are in a Mercury Rx shadow.

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Valus
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Posts: 1256
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posted September 05, 2009 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPZoJogLZTA

I hate this song, lol.
Damn, I must be committed.

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Xodian
Moderator

Posts: 130
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2009 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Hope that satisfies you...

Its a step Valus... Its a step... Just a step... Though a more productive one from the lat time we talked about the given topic and you were conjuring up excuses to support your diet of Chicken meat.

You can go about spreading your given dogma all you want and refuting people's views on why they need meat to maintain a healthy lifestyle (supported by medical reasons.)

You have your views and we can all respect that to some degree Until you become some hardcore PETA supporter who ends up throwing paint at people's clothing or vandalizes private property, I see no problem with you expressing your views.

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Valus
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Posts: 1256
From:
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posted September 06, 2009 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Just a step? A bigger step than I see most so-called "animal lovers" taking. And I wasn't conjuring up excuses on the Chicken meat, I was recognizing that you can't do everything at once. I have tried to do it all at once in the past and it didnt work. What worked, as you can see, is the gradual transition. My arguments about the chicken are the same you will find in the writings of Linda Goodman, by the way, who recommended eating no beef, but still eating chicken, for a period of two years, before transitioning entirely. As you may know, Linda was a very vocal and uncompromising crusader for animal rights, herself. It's too bad she's not hear to debate on these threads.

I disagree that anyone needs meat. If you were familiar with the medical information, and the history, that I am, you would know of alternative diets of which the mainstream medical community is ignorant. There are ways to get your calcium and iron other than from animal products, though you will have to do some independent, self-educating to find these things out. Meat and dairy are the biggest causes of cancer, btw. Not to mention environmental pollution and probably world poverty. If there were ever a cause worth fighting for...

take care

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Xodian
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Posts: 130
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 06, 2009 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Mr. Valus, when you say that you were taking steps in changing your diet, you were slowly transfering yourself out of a lifestyle in a more possible unhealthy one. Yes... Vegan diets have been proven to be unhealthy since for the most part, Vegan diets indeed do not provide you with full nutritional benifits; Heck there have been sources that say that you are most likey to gain more carbs from the consumption of plant based protien sources then protien itself. Most plant based protiens can't be absorbed by your body that easily so in short you are gonna put on more weight in all the wrong areas and most is gonna be fat. As for calcium derived from plant based sources, I don't know if you are aware of your highschool biology Mr. Valus but most of the time, your body directly rejects calcium dervied from plant based sources and thows em directly out along with most fiberous materials. You are getting 1/10th the required amount by consuming almost 4 times as mmuch plant matter while not keeping in mind the fact that you are gaining three times the amount of carbs and little to no protien.

You are also reducing the intake of essential Amino acids that are necessary for the development of your brain and your nervous system. You cannnot gain all nine essential Amino Acids from plant based sources alone. It has been emphisized time and time and again as to how important these acids are in the normal development of the brain. Furthermore, putting a toddler on this unhealthy diet risks their health and wellbeing since you are subjecting them to the same unhealthy ablance that lacks the required amino acids, and nutrition. Not to mention the fact that those suffering from Anemia need animal based Iron sources to maintain the required level of iron in their bodies.

Sorry... There have been more then enough proof that refute your logic.

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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 1256
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 07, 2009 03:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

I guess it all depends on whose evidence you're willing to acknowledge, and why, Xodian. I see plenty of evidence in support of my position, while you see just the opposite. It boils down to who you want to believe. It's your choice. I personally wanna make the compassionate choice, and, all proofs being equal, I'll acknolwedge the evidence that supports that choice.

"And now we come to what I always say. People come and ask: Is it better not to drink alcohol or to drink alcohol? Is it better to be a vegetarian or to eat meat? I never tell anyone whether he should give up alcohol or drink it, whether he should eat plants or meat. I say to people: Alcohol does so and so. I simply explain its effect, and then they may decide whether to drink or not. I do the same with regard to vegetarian or meat diet: Meat does this and plants do that. And the result is that they can decide for themselves... One does not tire so quickly. From within the organism one does not get so tired because one does not deposit all this uric acid and its salts. One does not tire so quickly and keeps a clearer head and can therefore think more easily, that is, if one thinks at all... We must understand each other precisely as to the purpose of today's lecture and the intention behind it. We are not agitating in favour of particular tendencies, nor are we trying to be reformative. The spiritual scientist is obliged to state the truth of things. His attitude must never be agitatorial, and he must be confident that when a person has perceived the truth of what he says, he will then proceed to do the right thing... Now I do not proselytise, I merely want to state the truth. We shall get to know still other effects of meat diet; we shall be obliged to discuss this subject in some detail. This is why progress in inner anthroposophical life gradually produces a sort of revulsion against meat. It is not as though one has to forbid meat to anthroposophists, but the healthily progressing instinct gradually turns against meat and no longer likes it. And this is much better than becoming a vegetarian out of some abstract principle. The best is when spiritual science causes man to develop a kind of aversion for meat."

~ from:
Nutrition and Stimulants
by Rudolf Steiner

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T
Knowflake

Posts: 1064
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 07, 2009 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message
Back to the plant...

The tube going into the earth looks really thin. How does it digest the things it ingests and where do they go from there? It doesnt look as though a rat could fit through that tiny tube....maybe it rots or digests in the plants "cup" first and slowly gets sucked into the tube and then the earth...

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jane
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Posts: 44
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Registered: Jul 2009

posted September 10, 2009 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
That plant needs some googly eyes.

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