posted October 29, 2009 01:24 PM         

In a grossly overpopulated world, where people compete aggressively (and often dishonestly) for resources and gainful employment, while there are an estimated 44 million unadopted orphans being supported by charities and public funds -- or else, starving to death in relative obscurity... is there anything commendable about having a child?

Isn't it about time we started asking this question?

Everywhere you look, somebody is squeezing out a new puppy ("Hallelujah, praise Jeeezus"), and getting all sorts of pats on the back for their trouble. Planned or unprevented, pregnancies abound! Single mothers routinely go on welfare and get themselves and their spawn subsidized by the government (i.e. the tax-payers). As a rule, we celebrate and admire these "strong, independent women" for the all sacrifices they make, and if they manage to raise a child into something more than a burden or blight on society, we would like to throw them a parade. Kazooos!!! Are we really promoting the best kind of values here?

How about the people who go about their business without populating the earth with more whining, squeeling, obnoxious, annoying, dependent, neurotic, potentially criminal, flesh-eating mouths to feed? Where is their pat on the back?? Where is their "Congratulations!!" for not spawning a brood of tiny, grubby-handed consumers? Really. Is it up to me to start a "Congrats on NOT Having a Kid" thread, lol?

Is procreation a bad habit?

Second, Reincarnation

How about reincarnation? Who are these souls, anyway, that we pluck, like cherubic fruit, from the cosmic tree, to satisfy our greed? Or, if they choose to be here, is their choice any more informed than the choice to eat some greasy, fatty dinner they know they'll only regret in the morning? And why? So they can learn what they already know? Not to eat that sh-t; not to incarnate here? Are we merely enabling their addiction, when we pave their way into this world? Are we tempting them where they are weakest? And, ultimately, congratulating ourselves on being pushers??

Maybe its time we started asking these questions.

posted October 29, 2009 09:08 PM         

I think personal history is always relevant. Personal reasons always interest me. I think sometimes we cloud the issue with facts and figures, rather then deal with the real root of the matter. Dueling in armor is fun, but I prefer digging for roots.

Of course I have no idea what your root is ... and I wouldn't dream of inquiring if I believed you were the sort of man afraid to go digging for it.

carry on

posted October 29, 2009 11:31 PM         

but i agree with you that the majority of parents or wanna-be parents are answering to an ideal they have no way of fulfilling. somehow society is still pushing the brady bunch as a goal...people spending thousands of dollars and often risking their health to conceive their "own" when there are so many neglected parentless kids gets my goat.

i did have my own, when i was under the illusion i was incapable i got pregnant and my maternal instinct protected that "accident" but one was plenty!!

i'm sure plenty of single moms do use welfare, but to paraphrase whoopi goldberg, that paltry check is almost an insult. i don't know how anyone lives on it!

most of the single moms i have known never used welfare. myself, i have never even used unemployment. though i did find the NHS a boon as the mother of a young child in england, i considered it my responsibility to come up with the bacon and i did!! sometimes it was not very rich bacon but we never went hungry, homeless or begging and we always had enough of everything.

posted October 30, 2009 12:28 AM         

Was it not you who argued that there is no such thing is free will?

Oh scorpio would you prefer to see all obliterated, starting clean from a fresh start? Would you throw the unconscious ones in a great fire, or would you impose sterilization on the human herds?

Can we not let the ignorance of others act as fuel for our own enlightenment? Cannot we love and tolerate those who were born with less capacity for spiritual growth. What a blessing that has been bestowed upon you, the ability to reason, the ability to express yourself. It would be a shame of your spiritual potential were drowned out by disgust. You are impassioned man but I hope that your passion doesn't consume you.

Is the human species exempt from the population expansion we see with nearly all successful organism? Are we so special and intelligent that we can control our own biology?

Try as you might you cannot answer questions about reincarnation, souls, and the meaning of it all. You can choose to see the earth as some giant buffet where we all get stuffed, and realize maybe we shouldn't have come. What does that matter anyway? All there is to recognize is that the people of earth are suffering, and what are you going to do about it? Throw a party for a barren woman?

posted October 30, 2009 12:50 AM         

"valus, did you feel unwanted as a child?"

and you provided a good answer.

it seems to me that those of us who not only simply "felt" that we were unwanted, but were also possibly told numerous times, or knew it instinctively - or both, will have our rose colored glassed tinted just a bit differently. yes, it will wake some people up to what they would otherwise be blind and sheepled into. And perhaps that is something that these people are here to present or pose to others.

Like shura pointed out, it's usually always best to get at the root of your own problem first, before trying to heal others first of theirs.

posted October 30, 2009 12:58 AM         

quote:

---

And perhaps that is something that these people are here to present or pose to others.

---

posted October 30, 2009 09:52 AM         

quote:

---

Adopting from the U.S. foster care system is generally the least expensive type of adoption, usually involving little or no cost, and states often provide subsidies to adoptive parents. Stepparent and kinship adoptions are often not very costly. Agency and private adoptions can range from $5,000 to $40,000 or more depending on a variety of factors including services provided, travel expenses, birthmother expenses, requirements in the state, and other factors. International adoptions can range from $7,000 to $30,000.

While there may be a small fee required up front, any requirement that all fees be paid immediately following application should raise red flags. When talking with your professional, ask about the payment schedule, and about sliding scale fees if your financial resources are limited.

There are a growing number of resources to help manage the cost of adoption, including tax benefits (some of which apply to public agency adoptions as well), loans, employer benefits, and others.

---

Just a side note here: I have girlfriends who after turning a certain age could not stop talking about having a child and they were not satisfied until they became pregnant and gave birth. They were obsessed with it and have told me that it was on a pure instinctual level and their lives will not be fulfilled unless they had children. Which, of course, just made me feel like an alien. Where the hell is this mother instinct hiding? LOL.

More importantly: Do I choose not to have children because I lack that instinct and therefore it's easier for me to focus on the "big picture" - overpopulation, resource depletion etc. etc.?

Sorry Valus, can't help but look at this through my own key hole.

quote:

---

Like shura pointed out, it's usually always best to get at the root of your own problem first, before trying to heal others first of theirs.

---

Wanted to add to this statement.

Sometimes in order to get to the root of your own problem, there needs to be one there [a problem]. It would only become a problem if the act/fact/state of mind is in contradiction to some social or personal norm. (This is where my English falls flat, forgive me.)
If my mom pushing me out of my home at age 13 so I don't have to witness my parents' fights was a problem in my mind, I would be terrified of commitment and have enormous trust issues right now. To some, her decision was cold and harsh. I never looked at it that way. It was not a problem for me.

posted October 30, 2009 11:29 AM         

Years ago, at Christmastime, I was scouring the children's section of a local bookstore looking for something for my nephew and stumbled on "Tell Me Again About The Night I Was Born" - the story about a little girl's adoption. I flipped through it for a minute, then stood there, crying like an idiot, in the middle of Border's Bookstore.

No one seems to like discussing it. I honestly don't understand why.

This much ballyhooed mother instinct business is something I've struggled with. I never had one and I felt the lack of it somehow made me less. I thought my cat was too needy. It wasn't this way for me, but, you know, lots of woman have a mother instinct that just happens to manifest in other ways besides caring for children.

quote:

---

If my mom pushing me out of my home at age 13 so I don't have to witness my parents' fights was a problem in my mind, I would be terrified of commitment and have enormous trust issues right now. To some, her decision was cold and harsh. I never looked at it that way. It was not a problem for me.

---

hmmmm yes, I see. I didn't mean to imply that anyone here had a problem, rather we all have a reason. And those reasons may not be entirely intellectual. I think that very often the intellect protects the emotional cause, when that cause would prefer to remain hidden or seemingly unimportant. This is a generalization, of course.

posted October 30, 2009 12:08 PM         

I have some doubts about reincarnation from an ethnic minority perspective.

I wonder about the origins of the beliefs of reicarnation. I would like when it began and why.

When it comes reincarnation, I wonder if people had pastlife memories as other human species like Neanderthal,CroMagnon,Australopithecus,and Homo Erectus. Those are the early humans before Homo Sapiens existed.

also there are the Dalits in India.

Dalit,Dr. Velu Annamalai who grew up as an Untouchable in India.

said the following:

"Let me find out what God he is? Who made me be an "untouchable"? Tell me what I did in my last life. I sure want to find out. OK. I sure want to talk to the God. Maybe I'll shoot him! Becasuse I know the life of an untouchable in India. But what the Aryans did, they made us completley dumb. Completely ignorant. Completely Illiterate. Completely poor. Completely weak in every sense of the word for 3000 years."
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EF49A074F015E2E6&search_query=black+untouchables+of+india

He doesn't believe in reincarnation. He definitely doesn't believe in Hinduism. He slams that whole culture and religion. That is something that I never did. All I did was point that there was an untouchability issue in India. I have easily pointed out the issues of racism here in USA,and I have been slammed for that too. Electing a man that is an offspring of a white American woman and a black African man with no black American slave ancstry,being raised by his white relatives doesn't show that racism against blacks in USA is a thing of the past. Anybody that thinks that is very naive in my opinion or are in just plain denial of race relations here in USA. I have dealt with racism. I have seen it point blank. I know what it's like to be called the n'word. I know what it's like for my hair to be referred to as "nappy". I know what it's like to be called "retard" by a lot of white children. I also know what it's like to be called "confused" by blacks. I know what it's like to have my mother being approached by Mexican landlords, voicing her displeasure about being married to a black man. I know how uncomfortable for a white grandfather to use racial slurs in front of me,leading to ask my mother if he's racist. I know what it's like to want to beat the crap out of a black person for saying that white women that are into black men because of sexual stuff. I know what it's like to be around blacks that use the word, "cracker". I am not naive about race relations. I am very realistic about that stuff, growing up in Sacramento,California. It's racially diverse here,but racial diversity doesn't mean racial harmony. My mother even told me that.

I think that minorities in countries are tend to be resistant to reincarnation concepts. They might see reincarnation and religion as the root of the problem that leads to their oppression. Some might see it as comfort in a way. Take slavery for instance. When blacks were slaves, they turned to Christianity for hope of a better life and deliverance. Some blacks rejected Christianity because they thought it was the religion of the oppressors. These attitudes were also in the days of fighting for civil rights. Malcolm X rejected Christianity and decided to be a muslim. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's Christian faith was an inpiration for equality. It also made him speak out against American government in his later years when it came to the Vietnam War.
I don't think that either of these civil rights leaders believed in reincarnation.

as for procreation, racial minorities here in USA are feared to outnumber whites. Many abortion clinics are in minority areas too. Also hispanics are projected to be not only the largest minority in USA, but even to be the most dominant ethnic group in USA. There are serious immigration issues here in USA. It's about the Mexicans crossing the border. Many Hispanics have lots of children too. They tend to have much larger families.
I don't believe that immigration would be a problem if it was only white people migrating to the USA.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 30, 2009 12:11 PM         

quote:

---

When it comes reincarnation, I wonder if people had pastlife memories as other human species like Neanderthal,CroMagnon,Australopithecus,and Homo Erectus.

---

posted October 30, 2009 12:13 PM         

.... food for thought...

but are they dalits? or are they souls who incarnated in a certain circumstance?

btw, this is no justification to keep things in place. may be those incarnating today are here to contest the established order, i would hope so personnally.

it's only the following part that makes me cringe

quote:

---

Tell me what I did in my last life. I sure want to find out. OK. I sure want to talk to the God. Maybe I'll shoot him! Becasuse I know the life of an untouchable in India.

---

posted October 30, 2009 12:38 PM         

pire,
It's not my mistake.

They are the ones that refer to themselves as Dalits. It's a self-designation.
Dalit is a word that means "oppressed"

They are referred to as Untouchables in India because they are the outcastes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit

There is an organization created to aid Dalits
called Dalit Freedom Network

The Dalit Freedom Network partners with the Dalits in their quest for religious freedom, social justice, and human rights by mobilizing human, informational, and financial resources. http://www.dalitnetwork.org/

Dalit Freedom Network http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5vCqrAiCV8

Dalit Solidarity http://www.dalitsolidarity.org/untouchability.php
http://www.untouchables.org/home.php

More stuff on the Dalits aka Untouchables http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAdYtDLp0hU&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAdYtDLp0hU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxy1R0jitM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1l-x7708zY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK-zM9izrbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rfKDJalrMo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1CY48_Tmho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prJlqSmKblU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrswpEHc_xk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpUXQem0C0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLnGkHMr9k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNANFT676V0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG4tVuWuz9I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMVh9l8llq0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKk_9wGL3QA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd8YwCdi6fg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dd2g9VLv8Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leWWGTK21is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsNpMstCoeo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjHAz0khz00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYpvnMks1HE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZKa1EGdSCM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2jLDSrVUsY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNY5BLIv1jw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38UlKdrebIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDu6v-fq6Go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dvu9MSy07E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of20QpnO8Zo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_r4VF2FRbk

Here is stuff on the Black Untouchables of India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz732ezwcsU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2jMTfVYXfw&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNYYTg5zloM&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1aqLelymiI&feature=related

So why not tell them that it's their mistake in their thinking? Don't tell me it's my mistake. I didn't come up with the term,Dalit.

please don't give me some philosophical lecture like I am some ignorant ass person.

I'd appreciate it.

food for thought

Raymond
------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 30, 2009 01:29 PM         

quote:

---

So why not tell them that it's their mistake in their thinking? Don't tell me it's my mistake. I didn't come up with the term,Dalit.

please don't give me some philosophical lecture like I am some ignorant ass person.

I'd appreciate it.

food for thought

---

posted October 30, 2009 01:35 PM         

my bad if i didn't make myself clearer.

désolé.

posted October 30, 2009 01:56 PM         

much much love to you