posted April 23, 2010 03:30 PM         

You didn't start with "Before a contract was made," though. This thread has a married woman's name in it, so you'd have had to have changed your focus if we're just talking about some promiscuous person.

posted April 23, 2010 03:32 PM         

and i know you want me
to tell everyone we are good.
but it's none of their business,
and they're bourgeois anyway.

posted April 23, 2010 03:34 PM         

as with everything, safety first. condom sense, regular testing and all of that.

i assumed you meant inside of marriage, regarding relationships like sandra and her hubby.

when you take a vow before God and man it is supposed to mean something. supposed to. then its balls on a platter.

posted April 23, 2010 03:37 PM         

The title has a married woman's name in it?

LOL

The first post brought up a lot.

And a lot has been worked out,
and clarified since then, in this
and the two other threads like it.

The issue is clearly pretty big.

I've said what I believe
the significant questions are.

If you want to discuss it, lets.

If not, I guess that wraps it up.

posted April 23, 2010 03:40 PM         

well, what interests me
is the discussion that takes place

after promiscuity is okay

and before it is not okay

that liminal space

where things are being discussed

feelings and values are shared

and i think Yin is right..

that discussion can always
be openned again.

Vows are no excuse
not to grow.

posted April 23, 2010 03:46 PM         

You're taking us in circles.

Now you say its about respect.

So, why do you define respect
as "respectfully limiting your freedom
and limiting another person's freedom",
rather than "respecting your freedom,
and respecting the other's freedom"?

I think allowing freedom
does not need to be justified,
but limiting freedom does.

posted April 23, 2010 03:51 PM         

question for you valus..if we are so bourgeois why do you waste your huge brain on us? obviously nothing anyone else thinks or says carries any merit with you. are we being treated to yet another lesson from he- who-is-so-much-brighter-and-more-original- than-the-rest of us? and if you and yin are none of our business why don't you talk amongst yourselves instead of shoving it out here?

before vows a woman has as much right and usually desire to have multiple partners as a man. AFTER vows if one partner wants to change the vows they need to talk about it FIRST, not after they are discovered in flagrante

you are right about one thing. if someone feels the need to pretend to be other than they are it will probably backfire in the relationship.

posted April 23, 2010 04:02 PM         

that is growing. when two people decide whether they want the same things or not. if i wanted more than someone was willing to give me as far as just being with me, i would let them go, as i know they would just hurt me.

two people that are married and one decides they want to see other people, i guess it would be up for discussion, as would who gets the house..i have no intentions on playing kiddie games inside of marriage. but obviously with the divorce rates as they are, not too many people take vows seriously. i do.
cheat
beat
or
mistreat
i'm done.
see, i can do just fine on my own, without the hurt, i would rather be hurt big one time, than over and over and over again. and, yes knowing someone you love is intimate with someone else, hurts. but actually, when i have had a man step out on me, i have been known to find the finest biggest hunkiest guy around with the biggest.......wallet.. (oh, i know what you think i was going to say) and rock his socks off just long enough for it to get back. in fact, that what i called it at the time, "get back". and truth be told, "get back" does numb it down a notch.

linda summed it up pretty well for leos. lets see if i remember.

heres to me
heres to you
heres to love and laughter
i'll be true as long as you
not one single minute after.

posted April 23, 2010 04:06 PM         

You don't think that talking about politeness is talking about respect? I can't imagine why you'd think that.

quote:

---

So, why do you define respect
as "respectfully limiting your freedom
and limiting another person's freedom",
rather than "respecting your freedom,
and respecting the other's freedom"?

I think allowing freedom
does not need to be justified,
but limiting freedom does.

---

So you think that restricting the guy that comes in every day to smack you in the face is wrong? If he were a thief, you be ok with that, too? What if he shot you every day? At some point, you have to acknowledge that his freedom to abuse you isn't justified, and that it, in fact, does affect your own freedom somehow.

Now say the reason he abuses you is because of some way he feels you abuse him. Then what can you do? You can continue to take the abuse, and continue with your freedom in abusing him, OR you can limit yourself while asking him to limit himself. Is your freedom without abuse greater or lesser than your freedom with abuse?

posted April 23, 2010 04:16 PM         

A guy smacking you is one thing.

A guy kissing someone else is another.

posted April 23, 2010 04:22 PM         

last i heard yin had a job, until she quits it to live off the land, like you do, and walks to your house, i'd say she is as bourgeous as the rest of us.

posted April 23, 2010 04:32 PM         

Like others have said it's the emotional intimacy that can't be trampled. Personally, I wouldn't mind someone I was with receiving sex from someone besides me, but if the ability to form a relationship was there it would put me on edge, and eventually destroy things. That's not societal conditioning, or having a closed mind. That's observing that the person you're with is forming a relationship that threatens your own. It's threatening because if that bond is developed, then your partner feels like they have more of an out, and then they're more likely to leave you in haste after an inconsequential argument, because they have that false security of someone else's arms to run to. Meanwhile, that person may be even worse to be in a relationship with, or not even want a relationship in the first place. Who needs a relationship when they can have no strings attached sex?

I really don't think it's about societal programming. I think it's a pretty realistic way of retaining the peace in your life.

posted April 23, 2010 04:32 PM         

Stop following me.

Start your own thread.

You make things more and more personal.

Why do you do that?

Shut up about my brain.

Shut up about my relationship.

Just shut up.

'kay?

You don't get me,
and you are determined
to attack me for everything
YOU DON'T GET.

It's tiresome.

Call your grandchildren.

Read a book.

Have a life.

Don't just target my threads
and look for chinks in my armor.

I'd debate circles around you,
but you havent the sense to know
when you're beat.

Your stupidity is indestructible.

Is that how we should talk to each other?

F*cking get lost!

You bring out the worst in me.

Can you really not satisfy yourself
with threads not started by Valus?

Is it so hard to enjoy the other threads,
or to start a thread or two of your own?

I dont think I've confronted you
on something important to you ever.

But you confront me on
every thread I post.

What is it with you?

You're a troll.

That's the only solution.

You're a troll that doesn't
know how to do anything but
pick at someone else's work.

That's it, isn't it?

What's your sign, anyway?

What serious Saturn or Mars affliction
is responsible for your dogged persistence
in getting in my way every chance you get?

posted April 23, 2010 04:36 PM         

you can get more personal than that.

there must be some card
you have left to play.

something really personal
you can make the focus of this.

god, you are bourgeois!

Its not about having a job,
its about having a SOUL.

Nevermind.

posted April 23, 2010 04:43 PM         

I WROTE SOMETHING THAT TOUCHED YOU

YOU READ IT EVERY DAY

I'VE DONE GOOD WORK

I'VE MADE YOU FEEL

I'VE MADE YOU THINK

I DONT OWE YOU ANYTHING

posted April 23, 2010 04:56 PM         

I'm looking for a fight?

You're pushing red buttons.