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Author Topic:   Christmas & ...Santa ?
SunChild
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From: Australia
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posted December 01, 2010 03:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So who does the Santa thing? Why do you do it? OR Why don't you do it?

Now that my oldest daughter is 3 I have not mentioned Santa at all.
Firstly I don't like Santa and the idea of it.
And also, I would find it impossible to lie to my children about it...
My daughter saw Santa at the shopping center... "who's that?" She asked. No words came out of my mouth... as it felt unimportant really. When she is old enough- I will explain the the social deception.
She will still have a wonderful christmas, filled with warmth and all that fun stuff... But Santa? No.
How can I lie to her?

Some would say It's overkill to say I am lying... Some would say I'm taking it too seriously and it's just a bit of fun.
I lost a friend over an argument to do with Santa, she thought I was aweful to deny my children something 'everybody just does'.
But I can not force myself to do this.
Husband doesn't care for it either.
No trees will be cut down to be decorated.
I find that abhorrent.

I feel like when you reach a stage of awakening (of consciousness), instead of just living on auto-pilot passed down from parents and society, how can one lie to their children?

Impossible.

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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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SunChild
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posted December 01, 2010 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To me, Santa is the highest symbol of Materialism.

Also I don't wish to offend those who do it.
Although I have strong opinions... I can't help it.

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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted December 01, 2010 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have no issue with Santa. I also don't believe he's a symbol of materialism. There are all kinds of make believe things throughout life. I'm sure you'll let her watch movies or plays. Those are fictional as well. What about books? A lot of fiction in story books.

Santa's known for spending his resources giving people around the world a blessing. Tough to find a bad message in that, I think.

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bunnies
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posted December 01, 2010 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't agree with you Sunchild but I do understand and respect your beliefs.

And to be honest having had at least had 12 Xmas's spent on the other side of the world I think it's quite easy to disregard the whole thing.
In the heat it''s just all wrong. All wrong!!

But I have to admit it has and always will be a magical time for me.
I love Santa (I even bought a tin of sweets because they had an old fashioned Santa on the lid)
And I lie quite cheerfully to myself every year. And my kids loved it and never felt hard done by when they found out (not by me!) that it was a story.
They just joined me in perpetuating it!

And I agree with you, I would never cut down a tree BUT I do make my own Xmas tree with twigs that have fallen.
I collect them (sometimes you find something that's practically a small tree anyway) spray the branches with artificial snow and hang some lovely hand made ornaments on that your daughter could help you make?
I think that would make it a very magical time for her.

You don't have to tie into the consumerism part of it, just tie into the magic.
I think every child deserves wonderful Xmas memories.
Give it a whirl? Just once?

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emitres
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posted December 01, 2010 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for emitres     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i feel that Santa represents the
spirit of giving... especially for
those of us who are not Christian, it's
a way to celebrate the generosity we
should display all year round....
that's what we're teaching my step-child...
not Santa as a real person but an idea...

that being said, i do respect your feeling
that it's a lie and represents mass
materialism - it's hard not to notice
that for many people Christmas is about
what we buy and get etc ... but even that's
alright - to each their own

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If you pull it too tightly, the string will break.

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AbsintheDragonfly
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posted December 01, 2010 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AbsintheDragonfly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Santa is all the time.

Whenever anyone does something selfless and giving for others without having to, it's Santa.

Like emitres said.

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NickiG
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From: Pluto, next to Ami Ann
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posted December 01, 2010 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the santa now a days is a far cry from the real St. Nick that actually existed...i think its wonderful to honor St. Nick but not the way the world is doing it now...have your christmas the way you want, i'v seen people do their christmas in all sorts of ways, i dont think there is a right or wrong way to do it, whether or not you believe in todays depiction of santa or not

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the better the chase, the better the reward

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eskimono
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posted December 01, 2010 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eskimono     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's a horrible dilema.

I understand and agree with your need not to 'lie' to your daughter. I feel the same way. But ultimately, you also want to protect her.

If you choose to tell her about the myth, you will be denying her many years of magic, and she may not thank you for it. However, what's more important is what happens when she starts school and makes friends? She will tell the other children that it's all a myth - can't see that going down well! There is also a risk that you make your daughter so individual, that she has trouble finding a place. It's a harsh thing to say, but children just want to feel like everyone else - that's why they all have the same toys, all dress the same way....and those that are a bit different tend to get picked on. It's not right, it's not fair, but it's life. Individuality is great, if it's the childs choice and they have the strength to stand alone.

I started that whole 'tooth-fairy' thing a while back. My daughter asked me recently whether it was really me putting the money under her pillow, I can't lie and thought she might be able to handle the truth. So I admitted it...she dissolved into tears and said 'what about the easter bunny.....what about father christmas'. I have ended up creating a bigger web of lies....and have reinvented the tooth-fairy to restore the magic.............I just hope she forgives me some day!! She wants to believe, and I want to make her happy.

But, yep, the lying doesn't sit well with me either. As she gets older and asks more questions, you have to invent more lies!

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AcousticGod
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posted December 01, 2010 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I'd have the same philosophy essentially. I wouldn't make my child "different," and I don't know that the eventual ridicule for poor parenting would sit well with me either when she inevitably introduces you as the person who kept Santa from their life. I would feel a bit sheepish realizing that I kept my child from something essentially unharmful that would have connected her with her peers.

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SunChild
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posted December 01, 2010 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for replies so far. I respect each of you & what everyone said.
I know families who never did the santa thing who grew up in a wholesome happy home (not much tv either- not as little kids anyway.) They are adults with very creative careers. They are deeply spiritual and have talked about how magical & beautiful their childhood was without the need to lie... but 'make believe' was a huge part of their life as they knew they were partaking in something 'pretend'. I can't go into all the stories but they do make santa seem lame... I guess that is why I ask. Also, not everyone is the same any more, so many are pulling out of what is 'normal' these days ~ off building a hay barrel house, unschooling, ect ect...

AG ~ all those make believe things are purely for 'make believe'. I can't convince my daughter that fiction is real like we do with Santa.
Movies and Plays are so very different to the Easter Bunny and the toothefairy. As I see it anyway.

As a child, I did not enjoy Santa (yes it felt magical) but finding out it was false was very confusing for me, the lie affected me and I guess that is why I am questioning it now as a parent.

Bunnies~ I get you. The Magic is the essence there.... I'm finding ways to build that without the use of Santa though.

Emitres~ thanks... and yes I guess I am noticing the many who are predominantly materialistic.

Abs~ I understand.

NickiG!!~


Eskimono~ my daughter is going to a Steiner school probably... most families don't participate in Santa theme. But yes... lying is uncomfortable, and I can't do it.


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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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SunChild
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posted December 01, 2010 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL Santa was a Shaman?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFdbo_gU8g

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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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eskimono
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posted December 01, 2010 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eskimono     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just had to look Steiner up. It's great that you have options, we have to pay for anything other than mainstream here.

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Randall
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posted December 01, 2010 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WHAT!?! There's no Santa!?!

SC, I admire your choice, and I think it stems from pure integrity and Love. How can we expect to raise honest children when we lie to them? I do see your side. And, no, I don't think your children will miss out on anything developmentally OR cause problems with their friends in school--I mean, the Jewish children have no Santa, and they grow up just fine.

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"The earth is not given to us by our mothers and our fathers, it is borrowed from our children."

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SunChild
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posted December 01, 2010 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall, Thanks for seeing me.
Ya!

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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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Randall
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posted December 01, 2010 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Them babies are lucky to have a mommy like you.

I've always felt bad about the idea of killing a tree for a Pagan holiday, so I've stayed away from that tradition, except for last year (when I used tree decorating as a unique first date). I'm going to go back to that nonpractice this year.

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"The earth is not given to us by our mothers and our fathers, it is borrowed from our children."

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NickiG
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posted December 01, 2010 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i use a fake tree, lol...we used to have a christmas tree growing in the front yard of one place we lived at...but then we moved

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the better the chase, the better the reward

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Betty Boop
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posted December 03, 2010 01:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Betty Boop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd never take back believing in Santa whilst growing up. I never thought "oh noes - my parents lied" - I just grew out of it... but it was sweet while it lasted.

Kids have a huge imagination so any characters they like, whether in myth or stories - simply feed that imagination. I think it's great.

It's exciting to think there is a Santa Clause - It's 'make believe'. Could we really live a life without 'make believe'?

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted December 03, 2010 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sun Child,

I find it interesting that you chose not to answer your daughter at all. How did you feel about remaining silent?

I remembered figuring out that Santa Claus was half real and half fantasy at a very young age because, being black in this country you see every depiction of him as Caucasian but my parents told us Santa was black (referring to themselves, actually). Not only that, we lived in an apartment building and then in a two family house with no chimney which always seemed to be an important part of the story, and yet somehow my parents managed to get gifts silently under a real tree.

Now that I'm older I wish that my parents had emphasized more of a charitable aspect to the imaginative fantasy. I think it would be a great opportunity to teach about giving charitably, perhaps emphasizing that Santa isn't the only person who gives you presents at Christmas time. It's an opportunity to learn how to write thank you notes to grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, teachers, etc. People who give to us all year long.

As a child grows out of Santa Claus, they won't be left with the disappointment, they will be left with the magical feeling of what it's like to be a Santa to those in need, to fuel someone's imagination, how to create warmth in their hearts during the coldest and darkest time of the year.

Maybe not just emphasize Christmas but teach about other spiritual practices as well like Hanukkah which is a festival of lights and celebrating an actual miracle that helped to save lives. There's Kwanzaa which is a set of principles and values that shouldn't only be contemplated by African Americans.

So, I guess I'm saying that the "Holiday Season" is chock full of wonderful characters and opportunities to learn about love, light, and giving to family and friends and strangers all under the heading of the original holiday we all celebrated even before Christmas which is Saturnalia.

Part of this was just me thinking out loud, not to push you or anything. I just thought that your introduction of the topic was partially to explain that you don't like our modern day depiction of Santa Claus, but I was also thinking that your silence spoke volumes about your own conflicted feelings of how to deal with your decision to kind of "detach with an ax" from Santa. There are just so many ways for YOU to use your imagination to create a magical "season" that your children don't have to miss out on.

Just my opinion. Thanks for introducing the topic.

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WinkAway
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posted December 03, 2010 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WinkAway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SC I have felt the same about the whole santa thing.

I have always been truthful in regards to santa. I remember when I found out santa wasn't real and that the one person I trusted more than anyone lied to me. I was a big time mama's girl, so that really affected my trust in her.

So it was an easy decision to not tell my son about santa. I don't feel right telling lies to him. But I do understand other's reasons for choosing to tell their kids about santa.

There's a shine on both sides of the coin..

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SunChild
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posted December 03, 2010 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geo,

It was momentary that I could not find the words, but I did eventually answer her.

Those are all wonderful ideas- I just seem the need to create exactly that without using a fictional character. So in essence I really agree with you, there'll certainly be a holiday season, full of Christmas Spirit.
She will always know the truth however, always the truth.

Winks

Wonderful....

And the shine on both sides of the coin, too true!

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“It’s an interesting thing. Seeing Kuan Yin relating to a flower so intently. She's not just looking at it; she's interacting with it…I’m seeing how the act of relating to a flower appears to be so simple. Yet, it takes a tremendous amount of courage to make such a “simple” act important. Now, the lotus is floating away.”

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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From: New York, NY
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posted December 03, 2010 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SunChild,

I think you said it better than I did in less words:

"A Holiday Season filled with Christmas Spirit"

Fantastic!

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Randall
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posted December 24, 2010 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Merry Christmas, SC! Much love to you and yours.

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Mystic Melody
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posted December 24, 2010 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mystic Melody     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have always told my daughter that the "magic of Christmas" brings her surprises and toys and joys. I explain about love and sharing and giving and making people happy etc. I tell her there isn't really some guy who breaks into your house in the middle of the night to leave dolls.
Cartoons, books, and movies have told her differently and she loves the idea. She figures it out slowly herself... she said this year that she wasn't sure Rudolph was real. She seems quite sure of the other reindeer though. I always repeat, "the magic of Christmas" but I still talk about Santa with her as if I just might believe... because I sometimes do... <3 like tonight.
p.s.
there are nine stacks of 3 baby carrots each on my table next to the plate of cookies and cup of milk
(dasher
dancer
prancer
vixen
comet
cupid
donder
blitzen

and

rudolph...

just in case.

Merry Christmas to all
and to all
a good night.

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MoonWitch
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posted December 24, 2010 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonWitch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I first became a mom I was determined to not 'lie' about Santa to my son.

Then he went to preschool and learned about Santa. I was faced with a decision. I firmly believe there IS some magic in this world and though I don't think "Santa" is a real person at the North Pole - I do believe in the SPIRIT of Santa. The spirit of giving. The magic of waking up in the morning VERY excited to see if Santa ate part of the cookies. I don't see it as commercialism. Santa only brings small presents in this house. It's the excitement and the wonder of it all. <3

Just watching movies like "Miracle on 34th Street" and "The Santa Clause" makes people want to go out and do things for other people and to give whatever they can in the spirit of the season. Love love love!

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted December 25, 2010 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't agree with everything you said Sunchild, but respect your beliefs.

What I DO agree with you about is that sometimes people focus on Santa too much and forget the true meaning of Christmas...whatever that means to you. At minimum, it's a spirit of joy and caring for others, and wishing good things upon the world. For me because of my religious beliefs, it's a celebration of the arrival of Christ.

But, I do both...the whole shebang. Wishlist for Santa, baking cookies, presents snuck under the tree in the middle of the night...

Why? This morning when my son (he'll soon be 6) woke up and ran to the kitchen to see that the cookies and milk were "eaten" (with a Thank You note nearby LOL), and then ran downstairs to see a (fake) tree surrounded by gifts where none were before...his squeals of happiness and delight that Santa had come & provided the wishes of his heart made it 1000% worth it.

I stayed up until 2 AM wrapping gifts for friends and family. And loved every minute of it...giving is my joy! One day my little guy will realize that Mom & Dad are Santa, but for now, I cherish the sweet innocence of his childhood that believes in miracles.

And to top it off...it began to snow shortly after we woke up.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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