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Author Topic:   Carl, petit cours sur la France
pire
Knowflake

Posts: 1877
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 07, 2011 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
carl, I personnally didn't invade any country. nor my family which comes from a rural background and didn't benefit from colonisation. that being said, if you intent on blaming people throwing stones while having sinned themselves, let's not forget the US as a country benefited from slave trade and slavery. the hijab issue in france is not comparable to the segregation, and I can go on. besides, the muslim population ratio are far bigger in france, how would the US deal with a muslim woman wearing the hijab in a public office? would she'd be allowed to swear on ALLAH in the US, with her hijab on when doing her job? I doubt it. so don't point the finger too. If you know france you may know that france is a laic country, the state and religion...S, all of them, are separated. it has been so since 1905. we NEVER mention ANY god, either in the constitution, in court, or anywhere in relation to the REPUBLIC. we are a laic country, and we were BEFORE muslims came to france thorugh imigration, from 1950'S onward. so bringing this subject is not showing much your knowledge of the french traditions, besides what comes up on the news seen from overseas.

overall, lets not twist my words, will you, cause it is a more important issue than mere nationalism.


I didn't bash your country. I noticed, like Baez on the day of the verdict, that democracy was in danger when the entire population is led by a media frenzy to get someone executed. I blamed the fact that a country such as the US, big in size, strong in military power, and constitutionally democratic, was able to get, I don't know, 80% of its population on a witch hunt. what's next? sending text messages to say if you want some inmates to be sentenced to death? oh, right the people never get it wrong, right? guess what, hitler was democratically elected in 1933

you know, you rightly mentioned the desatrous historic french records, and from one of the main western powers in the world, it has become an unimportant country, mainland france is smaller than the state of Texas. during the 20st century, the US were the leading western power, and with democratic values. now after watching people's reaction to this trial, I wonder what the world's leading democracy will become... in the future... and remember the US rose because they wanted to incarnate democratic values during the 20th C. if they don't anymore, as seen regarding this hugely high profile case were most people had an opinion and wanted to kill someone innocent (until proven guilty - which wasn't)then I have no worries, the rest of the world will gladly find a new leader, cause there is always a leader when ones goes down.

and THAT will be the US legacy.

I am sorry you takes my remarks as a nationalist attack against your country. there are some things which I like about your country, and other not. like in my country.
Contrary to the impression I give you, I am conscious of natural France's delusion of grandeur although I am in my 30's and I have felt a change. when I was growing up you could hear the french wanting to be a great country. now, throughout society, we seem to accept that it is what it is. neither great, nor afflicted. we do alright, managing (still) to be in the 5 richest countries in the world, and most importantly having a treasure in our culture. it doesn't feel in danger like it did in the 90's for exemple. now people come back to the country, and traditional ways but with modernity in the mix. we do struggle with the problem of elite versus everyone else. and it is going to become an issue in the next, what, couple of generation!? but democracy doesn't seem in danger. I should remind you at this point that france was the stage of 2 worlds war. it has seen it all in the 20th C. of course the people forget stuff, and the current gov is not helping by creating a bigger divide between elite and other classes, degrading the middle class. this is the french way of life, and no matter in what ways some people want to paint it, it is fairly peaceful. 10% of french are muslims, and overall there is an integration that is being made. it has been tremendously delayed because so far, the previous waves of imigration were from a european background, or remotely linked culturally. from the 50's onwards, the origins have changed, and the politicans have parked them in ghettos. that has slowed down the process. but that 10% in france now is not going to go away. they are meant to remain here, and get involved, with thier cultural and religious background. the French culture is adapting to it, but besides being traditionally christian, if it still count, it is primarily a laic republic. That is an issue if the muslims wanted to put religion in the center of the public place. but I think luckily the imigration is mainly from north africa, not from the heart of the islamic world such as the closest ally of the US, saudi arabia for exemple. and in north africa, I doubt the hijab is common (if it means being covered head to toes). so really the problem you are mentioningdoesn't exist that much. unlike in the UK where the imigration comes from some more "traditioanl" islamic culture.

you may see my comments as a dark painting, that is not rooted. fair enough, I don't mind being wrong about that. I don't wish the US to become a dictatorship, even if it starts by populism. I certainly wouldn't like that scenario. I would be concerned that this cancer contaminate the entire western world. French people as I said, being neither great nor angels, would eventually succumb to the loss of democracy if it became the "normal thing" to do. or may be not. I don't know. all I meant in my initial post, and like it or not, is that the entire trial created reactions in the US population that looked exactly how I would expect a populist regime to run. from my point of view, it looked very bad. may be I didn't focus on the great humanity that resulted from the worries over the fate of caylee, like a bond between people who never had looked at each other before. perhaps. all I have seen, was how a woman could be thrown into the arena to be sentenced to death and be HATED HATED HATED when nothing had been prooven so far and in the end as well.

and considering that the death penalty is not an issue in my part of the world since it was abolished BACK IN 1981, the whole population endorsing the execution of a citizen for no tangible reason beyond her "out of the norm" relation to life made me see the worst in the future of your country. but this is probably not a glimpse of the future, beause the people is getting everyday more and more educated and reminded of the mistakes that occured in history at other times and other places, right?

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