|
Author
|
Topic: The Right To Die: Euthanasia Laws
|
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5873
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 15, 2013 10:27 AM
  
Should the U.S. adopt euthanasia laws for those who are terminally ill? Go the step further and for those not terminally ill... If we believe we have a "right to die" in peace when pain ridden & terminal. Yet on the other hand, those not terminally ill should ride it out. Quite a dichotomy when we think of our freedoms and rights to life and death. Should lawmakers have the right to make the decision? This article prompted the line of thought: Deaf Twins Going Blind Euthanized Two deaf twin brothers in Belgium were euthanized by their doctor after realizing they were going blind and would be unable to see each other ever again, their physician says.
The 45-year-old men, whose names have not been made public, were legally put to death by lethal injection at the Brussels University Hospital in Jette, on Dec. 14.
The men, who were born deaf, had a cup of coffee and said goodbye to other family members before walking into hospital room together to die, their doctor told Belgian television station RTL.
"They were very happy. It was a relief to see the end of their suffering," said Dr. David Dufour.
"They had a cup of coffee in the hall. It went well and a rich conversation. Then the separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful," he said. "At the last there was a little wave of their hands and then they were gone,"
More than 1,000 people legally availed themselves of doctor-assisted deaths in Belgium in 2011, most of them were terminally ill cancer patients.
The brothers are unique in that their illness was not terminal. Belgian law, however, allows doctors to euthanize "suffering" patients who are both mentally sound, over 18 and want to die.
Belgian lawmakers are considering a law that would extend euthanasia to dementia patients and children, whose families and doctors consented.
http://tinyurl.com/cba4f6p ------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
mirage29
Knowflake Posts: 435
From: us
Registered: May 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 01:36 PM
NO effing WAY!!   This is one of the MAIN thrusts of the Republican/Teabagger agenda in the USA... "Cleansing" the nation from those "undesireables"... Those "47%" are the perceived "social" problem... (clip) He chose...'poor'ly [0:09] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI  He chose poorly [3:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2v8RfLwWzE
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/t4toc.html How 'Healing' becomes 'Killing' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnHB7NdAio
Letting them die is their IDEA of ridding the earth of "the clutter" of "unattractive others"--- the poor, the crippled, those suffering because of resources being HOARDED to the point of human beings DYING!! selfishness??? WHO is being "selfish" when it comes to the preservation of LIFE!!
(The Autistic's Holocaust http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jINig9kJC7o) "Letting" or "Making" people do the option of earthly 'self-deportation' i.e. SUICIDE, IS the epitome of EVILness... Should NOT be LEGISLATED!! Mal-intentioned citizens would take advantage of political clout and abuse their authoritative powers and "punish" people they "don't like"... (Poor Eris!!) They would take away individual freedoms and find a way to "exterminate" whomever they decide to allege as "defective" and a disturbance to their elitist's "status quo"... (Again! asteroids Eris, Hyperborea, Salacia) US Congress needs to FIX themselves!! I'm 'justsickuvit'!! I think the Senate's "Gang of Six" OBSTRUCTIONISTS need to politically SELF-DEPORT!! (imo) REMEMBER THIS!!!!! (clip) The Soylent Green is People clip [0:04] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWzFBw1pcc    IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5873
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:02 PM
It would be a personal choice not a govermental requirement.
Yes, it is a form of suicide so then one must see suicide as evil to do so? Soylant Green was a super movie and the peaceful death scene is something I myself would wish for. Not necessarily suicide but death it`s self being serene and a positive one. ------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1538
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:13 PM
Absolutely for it. If someone of sound mind has decided to end their existence for medical reasons then it's best they do it humanely as possible and not in a way that their hanging or head shot bodies are discovered by loved ones. That said, I'd be for "waiting periods" to make sure someone has actually thought it through. Obviously it should never be mandated, but the danger of that I see comes from family, not government. Even so, I know I'd rather be euthanized against my will than placed in one of the nightmarish nursing or old folks home legal now waiting to die in emotional & physical anguish (fact is my granny said she'd suicide if she knew that was about to happen, and I would, too). IP: Logged |
mirage29
Knowflake Posts: 435
From: us
Registered: May 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:29 PM
In the hands of wrong-doers, juniperb!! Yes, to find surcease for permanent seering pain. HOWEVER, the "danger" would be that "political" people TWIST the meanings to serve their own dark agendas... Voting citizens could be deemed a terminable "pain" to society, and therefore societly "cleansed"-- LEGALLY!! Socially SANCTIONED plots of groups! (issues with "activism"-- females wanting equality, racism, the elderly, people with 'bothersome' behaviors, those in prisons, those labeled 'incompetent' for PRIVATE political reasons [e.g. Frances Farmer, Rosemary Kennedy lobotomized] ) IP: Logged |
Lexxigramer
Moderator Posts: 1179
From: The Etheric Realms...Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat...& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
It would be a personal choice not a govermental requirement.
Yes, it is a form of suicide so then one must see suicide as evil to do so? Soylant Green was a super movie and the peaceful death scene is something I myself would wish for. Not necessarily suicide but death it`s self being serene and a positive one.
IP: Logged |
Lexxigramer
Moderator Posts: 1179
From: The Etheric Realms...Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat...& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Absolutely for it. If someone of sound mind has decided to end their existence for medical reasons then it's best they do it humanely as possible and not in a way that their hanging or head shot bodies are discovered by loved ones. That said, I'd be for "waiting periods" to make sure someone has actually thought it through. Obviously it should never be mandated, but the danger of that I see comes from family, not government. Even so, I know I'd rather be euthanized against my will than placed in one of the nightmarish nursing or old folks home legal now waiting to die in emotional & physical anguish (fact is my granny said she'd suicide if she knew that was about to happen, and I would, too).
My beloved ex-mother-in-law tried to end her life but was stopped by family.
She lived for 10 more torturous years with advanced dementia and pain.
That was unfair to a dignified intelligent woman. 
I want to have a choice and not be required to linger for years or go to a home.
IP: Logged |
mirage29
Knowflake Posts: 435
From: us
Registered: May 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:42 PM
PixieJane! The ANSWER to your mother's fear of incarceration in nursing homes is TO FIX THE NURSING HOME!!! Not Kill oneself because you KNOW you're gonna get ABUSED!!Social Reformer Dorothea Dix worked on these issues back in the civil war era. "The Keepers" needed to be SUPERVISED and kept from acting out sadistically on patients. There is SO MUCH ABUSE going on in (11th 12th House for USA = SCORPIO) institutions today. The Keepers (doctors, nurses, medical people, jail guards) KNOW IT'S GOING ON but do not TAKE RESPONSIBLITY to "end" it--- the Rights and Protection laws we ALREADY have are NOT being "enforced!" Now THIS is a problem for the authorities to be looking to "solve"... Doesn't the nursing home say that the patient is to be free from abuse? physical, mental, social, or psychological?? ARE THEY ENFORCING THAT?? THIS is the issue that should be being discussed.... That people KNOW that abuse is happening there (to the point where you agree to suicide before incarceration) and they DO NOTHING to UPHOLD what is ALREADY a Right NOT to be a victim of ABUSE!! As Gomer Pyle would say, "...for shame - for shame - for SHAME!!"  Gomer Pyle singing The Impossible Dream [4:46] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqJ2jYumJJo
IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1538
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:47 PM
It won't be fixed, not in her lifetime anyway. Granted, it desperately needs to be addressed as well. IP: Logged |
mirage29
Knowflake Posts: 435
From: us
Registered: May 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 02:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
It won't be fixed, not in her lifetime anyway. Granted, it desperately needs to be addressed as well.
"There's no time like the Present"...? Instead of Congress wasting so much time fighting-to-no-resolve, they need to be FIXING the problem of ABUSE in today's MEDICAL and CARE-TAKING institutions and agencies... "humanity" needs to be REincluded in considering the title of the department of "Health and HUMAN SERVICES" !!! They are FAILING miserably... guilty of "allowing" MUCH crime and CORRUPTIONs... People should NOT have to FEAR being vulnerable... whether they're incarcerated or NOT! That's what the responsibility of "oversight" is all about. Right now they are GUILTY of being IN a job, AND not DOING their JOBS--- taxpayer WASTE, and ENDANGERING the life they are SUPPOSED to be "guarding"... !! Despicable!!  We need to return to honor and DIGNITY for EVERY citizen... no matter WHAT their lot in life may be.... In "this"... today we FAIL!! IP: Logged |
mirage29
Knowflake Posts: 435
From: us
Registered: May 2012
|
posted January 15, 2013 03:02 PM
Lexxigrammer {{{  }}} IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
Knowflake Posts: 3610
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
|
posted January 15, 2013 04:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
[b] NO effing WAY!! This is one of the MAIN thrusts of the Republican/Teabagger agenda in the USA... "Cleansing" the nation from those "undesireables"... Those "47%" are the perceived "social" problem... (clip) He chose...'poor'ly [0:09] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI He chose poorly [3:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2v8RfLwWzE
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/t4toc.html How 'Healing' becomes 'Killing' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnHB7NdAio
Letting them die is their IDEA of ridding the earth of "the clutter" of "unattractive others"--- the poor, the crippled, those suffering because of resources being HOARDED to the point of human beings DYING!! selfishness??? WHO is being "selfish" when it comes to the preservation of LIFE!!
(The Autistic's Holocaust http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jINig9kJC7o) "Letting" or "Making" people do the option of earthly 'self-deportation' i.e. SUICIDE, IS the epitome of EVILness... Should NOT be LEGISLATED!! Mal-intentioned citizens would take advantage of political clout and abuse their authoritative powers and "punish" people they "don't like"... (Poor Eris!!) They would take away individual freedoms and find a way to "exterminate" whomever they decide to allege as "defective" and a disturbance to their elitist's "status quo"... (Again! asteroids Eris, Hyperborea, Salacia) US Congress needs to FIX themselves!! I'm 'justsickuvit'!! I think the Senate's "Gang of Six" OBSTRUCTIONISTS need to politically SELF-DEPORT!! (imo) REMEMBER THIS!!!!! (clip) The Soylent Green is People clip [0:04] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWzFBw1pcc [/B]
It sounds like you're talking about eugenics, not euthanasia. Personally, if you're not terminally ill then why would you want to die? I'm trying to imagine being someone living with chronic pain, but surviving. I don't get it but I'm not to place judgment on those who want it. I'm intrigued in this topic to say the least. IP: Logged |
T
Knowflake Posts: 7731
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 15, 2013 04:56 PM
This is a tricky one. I don't think there's anything wrong with it being someone's choice and then carrying it out, assisted or alone. Although I do see a point in sticking life out and letting "your time" come ...when it comes..In any case, it should be addressed and talked about alot more than it currently is. IP: Logged |
Cynnared
Knowflake Posts: 985
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 21, 2013 10:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Should the U.S. adopt euthanasia laws for those who are terminally ill? Go the step further and for those not terminally ill... If we believe we have a "right to die" in peace when pain ridden & terminal. Yet on the other hand, those not terminally ill should ride it out. Quite a dichotomy when we think of our freedoms and rights to life and death. Should lawmakers have the right to make the decision? This article prompted the line of thought: [b]Deaf Twins Going Blind Euthanized Two deaf twin brothers in Belgium were euthanized by their doctor after realizing they were going blind and would be unable to see each other ever again, their physician says.
The 45-year-old men, whose names have not been made public, were legally put to death by lethal injection at the Brussels University Hospital in Jette, on Dec. 14.
The men, who were born deaf, had a cup of coffee and said goodbye to other family members before walking into hospital room together to die, their doctor told Belgian television station RTL.
"They were very happy. It was a relief to see the end of their suffering," said Dr. David Dufour.
"They had a cup of coffee in the hall. It went well and a rich conversation. Then the separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful," he said. "At the last there was a little wave of their hands and then they were gone,"
More than 1,000 people legally availed themselves of doctor-assisted deaths in Belgium in 2011, most of them were terminally ill cancer patients.
The brothers are unique in that their illness was not terminal. Belgian law, however, allows doctors to euthanize "suffering" patients who are both mentally sound, over 18 and want to die.
Belgian lawmakers are considering a law that would extend euthanasia to dementia patients and children, whose families and doctors consented.
http://tinyurl.com/cba4f6p [/B]
WHAT!? Are you kidding me? They put two deaf men going blind "to sleep". Unreal. Somehow I don't think I support Euthanasia at all. Well, maybe if the person was in severe pain and was terminal - like my uncle who died of cancer last year. The hell he went through, I would not wish on anybody....though he died in hospital and we don't have euthanasia in Canada..... Cynn
IP: Logged |
Love&Light
Knowflake Posts: 470
From: India
Registered: Oct 2011
|
posted January 21, 2013 11:14 AM
Here there is a system called Prayopaveshan. Wishful death. It is not very public now. Earlier people with excellent, fulfilling lives chose to go this way. Even now some do but its not publicised to keep off debates and controversies. Besides now in India any kind of euthanasia is illegal. Here's a link -www.japi.org
From this article by Shalaka R Joshi
here is an excerpt The Indian Perspective - Sati, Samadhi and
Prayopaveshan
Hinduism advocates the doctrines of rebirth and reincarnation. Religious scriptures use the metaphor of the immortal soul changing bodies the way human beings change their garments. With this background, perceptions about euthanasia are different in India. Both
voluntary and involuntary euthanasia has been
indirectly prevalent and rampant in India for centuries. Saints and sages used to take up “Samadhi”, which classically means the release of the soul from the body with volition. It is undergone ceremoniously as in the case of the revered Maharashtrian Saint Dnynaeshwar
who was renowned for being learned on all religious Hindu scriptures. The barbaric practice of “Sati” (where
the wife jumps into the funeral pyre of her husband) is a classic case of “Forced Euthanasia”, which some Indian
communities practiced until the 20th century when it became outlawed as a “Suicide”. A proposed bill in the Legislature of Maharashtra by Prof. Varde was
prematurely aborted about two decades back, though the movement for the “right to die with dignity” did take formal birth in India, led by the late Minoo Masani. In
contemporary India, both Veer Savarkar and Vinobha Bhave are classic examples of voluntary euthanasia.
They followed the method of voluntary cessation of nutrition which has the religious sanctity of a procedure called Prayopavesha. Currently under Indian law, all
forms of euthanasia are illegal and outlawed.
IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5873
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 21, 2013 11:59 AM
Cynn, I suppose since they couldn`t "see" each other and now not hear one another, they felt all was lost. A shame indeed.
------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5873
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted January 21, 2013 12:01 PM
Enlightening article Love & Light! Is the funeral pyre now a thing of the past?------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
Knowflake Posts: 3610
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
|
posted January 21, 2013 01:31 PM
I'm curious as to why people react to euthanasia like it's solely the doctor's decision. These twins CHOSE their own fate. I'm sure it wasn't as simple as walking into the doctor's office and being like "Hey, is my death bed ready? Cool." IP: Logged |
Lexxigramer
Moderator Posts: 1179
From: The Etheric Realms...Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat...& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted January 21, 2013 03:21 PM
I have experienced episodes of partial to total blindness.
If I were also deaf and went permanently blind like those brothers;
I do not know how I could go on.
My fingers have too much nerve damage for Braille.
A world cut off from sound and sight sounds like a nightmare to me.
And being physically disabled to boot and in poverty would add to the reduced quality of life.
I doubt I could take care of myself, and could not afford help.
What illness was causing the brothers to go blind?
Were they wealthy enough to hire help?
We should not judge them.
They did what felt right for them.
IP: Logged |
Love&Light
Knowflake Posts: 470
From: India
Registered: Oct 2011
|
posted January 21, 2013 09:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Enlightening article Love & Light! Is the funeral pyre now a thing of the past?
Yes indeed. Sati (live funeral pyre) is out. Only Samadhi is still practiced by many saints. And done openly and ritualistically. But Prayopaveshan is practiced by individuals very rarely now. At least its not much of a public knowledge. Only the few in the immediate vicinity will know. That too they will try to keep it a secret till its through lest someone objects. So its on the border line of acceptance but samadhi is accepted. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
