posted May 01, 2018 06:20 PM            

Even Linda, she was a very evolved human and had to go throught the very hard thing of losing her daugther as I read in ' love signs'.

Then I see people who are so empty or who can't show empaty or understanding towards others at all, and I see their lifes have been super easy and they had no problems at all. Loving family, money, good jobs, good couple, no complications.

Acording to reeincarnation you get what you deserve.
Not as punishment but as a way for you to evolve.

So how come than people who is very evolved like Linda get very hard things, and people who isnt evolved at all, doesnt?

I mean for sure Linda or the very loving people I know , have had more lives and have given more love that the ones I see who has no problems at all or who have easy lifes and are just abusing their power or money and doesnt seem so evolved.

Maybe the reason for it is that you get a more difficult ' course' as ' smart' or as prepared as you are to course it.

What do you think?

posted May 02, 2018 01:11 PM            

Speaking of which, some actors and actresses have reported similar effects from their intensive physical training without any mysticism being involved at all, even as they did what they thought was impossible, such as here, starting at 1:24 and I mean just to the 2 minute mark where a man says, "...now they know it is possible and they have the confidence to do it."
http://youtu.be/L7leHv3d11E?t=1m24s

I should add that some people who have it rough can be self-obsessed and bitter just as much as someone who feels entitled to every convenience in life. Likewise, someone born into a life of privilege may actually appreciate what they have rather than take it for granted. I'm not sure why this is so, and reincarnation would help to make sense out of it in some cases (as I couldn't think of anything better).

As for karma, this is how I see it:
http://www.facebook.com/notes/truth_is_scary/a-lesson-in-karma-robert-anton -wilson/222881601113011/

quote:

---

Then, returning from school one afternoon, Luna was beaten and robbed by a gang of black kids. She was weeping and badly frightened when she arrived home, and her Father was shaken by the unfairness of it happening to her, such a gentle, ethereal child. In the midst of consoling her, the Father wandered emotionally and began denouncing the idea of Karma. Luna was beaten, he said, not for her sins, but for the sins of several centuries of slavers and racists, most of whom had never themselves suffered for those sins. “Karma is a blind machine,” he said. “The effects of evil go on and on but they don’t necessarily come back on those who start the evil.” Then Father got back on the track and said some more relevant and consoling things.

The next day Luna was her usual sunny and cheerful self, just like the Light in her paintings. “I’m glad you’re feeling better,” the Father said finally.

“I stopped the wheel of Karma,” she said. “All the bad energy is with the kids who beat me up. I’m not holding any of it.”

And she wasn’t. The bad energy had entirely passed by, and there was no anger or fear in her. I never saw her show any hostility to blacks after the beating, any more than before.

The Father fell in love with her all over again. And he understood what the metaphor of the wheel of Karma really symbolizes and what it means to stop the wheel.

Karma, in the original Buddhist scriptures, is a blind machine; in fact, it is functionally identical with the scientific concept of natural law. Sentimental ethical ideas about justice being built into the machine, so that those who do evil in one life are punished for it in another life, were added later by theologians reasoning from their own moralistic prejudices. Buddha simply indicated that all the cruelties and injustices of the past are still active: their effects are always being felt. Similarly, he explained, all the good of the past, all the kindness and patience and love of decent people is also still being felt.

Since most humans are still controlled by fairly robotic reflexes, the bad energy of the past far outweighs the good, and the tendency of the wheel is to keep moving in the same terrible direction, violence breeding more violence, hatred breeding more hatred, war breeding more war. The only way to “stop the wheel” is to stop it inside yourself, by giving up bad energy and concentrating on the positive. This is by no means easy, but once you understand what Gurdjieff called “the horror of our situation,” you have no choice but to try, and to keep on trying.

---

posted May 02, 2018 03:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Linda also lost three babies.

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posted May 02, 2018 03:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't want to speak on it too much, but I will say I was introduced to an interesting mystical philosophy when I was 17-18 that viewed problems as opportunities for growth, and could be summed up as "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." I took well to this philosophy by the one introducing me to it as I already learned that pride comes from doing what is hard, not what is easy. But the trials it encourages in its practitioners do get dangerous (otherwise there wouldn't be a point), yet it also fosters an eagerness to take on challenges as it's a similar pleasure to overcome as a gamer would get in overcoming obstacles in a game, and at best you can discover strengths you never knew you had. I do think that many people in our society would do well to practice this (despite its dangers) as it makes for stronger people who don't fall apart under stress so easily, and don't take all the good they have for granted.

Speaking of which, some actors and actresses have reported similar effects from their intensive physical training without any mysticism being involved at all, even as they did what they thought was impossible, such as here, starting at 1:24 and I mean just to the 2 minute mark where a man says, "...now they know it is possible and they have the confidence to do it."
http://youtu.be/L7leHv3d11E?t=1m24s

I should add that some people who have it rough can be self-obsessed and bitter just as much as someone who feels entitled to every convenience in life. Likewise, someone born into a life of privilege may actually appreciate what they have rather than take it for granted. I'm not sure why this is so, and reincarnation would help to make sense out of it in some cases (as I couldn't think of anything better).

As for karma, this is how I see it:
http://www.facebook.com/notes/truth_is_scary/a-lesson-in-karma-robert-anton -wilson/222881601113011/

[QUOTE]Then, returning from school one afternoon, Luna was beaten and robbed by a gang of black kids. She was weeping and badly frightened when she arrived home, and her Father was shaken by the unfairness of it happening to her, such a gentle, ethereal child. In the midst of consoling her, the Father wandered emotionally and began denouncing the idea of Karma. Luna was beaten, he said, not for her sins, but for the sins of several centuries of slavers and racists, most of whom had never themselves suffered for those sins. “Karma is a blind machine,” he said. “The effects of evil go on and on but they don’t necessarily come back on those who start the evil.” Then Father got back on the track and said some more relevant and consoling things.

The next day Luna was her usual sunny and cheerful self, just like the Light in her paintings. “I’m glad you’re feeling better,” the Father said finally.

“I stopped the wheel of Karma,” she said. “All the bad energy is with the kids who beat me up. I’m not holding any of it.”

And she wasn’t. The bad energy had entirely passed by, and there was no anger or fear in her. I never saw her show any hostility to blacks after the beating, any more than before.

The Father fell in love with her all over again. And he understood what the metaphor of the wheel of Karma really symbolizes and what it means to stop the wheel.

Karma, in the original Buddhist scriptures, is a blind machine; in fact, it is functionally identical with the scientific concept of natural law. Sentimental ethical ideas about justice being built into the machine, so that those who do evil in one life are punished for it in another life, were added later by theologians reasoning from their own moralistic prejudices. Buddha simply indicated that all the cruelties and injustices of the past are still active: their effects are always being felt. Similarly, he explained, all the good of the past, all the kindness and patience and love of decent people is also still being felt.

Since most humans are still controlled by fairly robotic reflexes, the bad energy of the past far outweighs the good, and the tendency of the wheel is to keep moving in the same terrible direction, violence breeding more violence, hatred breeding more hatred, war breeding more war. The only way to “stop the wheel” is to stop it inside yourself, by giving up bad energy and concentrating on the positive. This is by no means easy, but once you understand what Gurdjieff called “the horror of our situation,” you have no choice but to try, and to keep on trying.

---

Thank you for this long answer. I really loved the story of Luna.

I didnt mean the ones who had easy life are bad and the ones who dont are good.
I think its not what happen to you but what you get out of it.
I guess I just wonder why lifes of saints are always so hard.

posted May 07, 2018 01:03 PM            

(music) It's Who You Are (AJ Michalka, lyrics) [3:52] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGcOe6zMDLY

{*Giving Thanks*}

(topic) Pilgrim & Grace {finally} (scene from movie The Horse Whisperer) [3:16] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9zEsSFyJ8

(topic) The Horse Whisperer (Trailer, 1998) [2:03] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_1dKoCQlxY

posted May 08, 2018 09:43 PM            

Not to be overly Cynical but I can't help but think of two different Quotes (both from Science Fiction)... Firstly Dark Helmet's “Evil will always Triumph because Good is Dumb” (Spaceballs)... and not that it's Dumb to be Good... but because Good People are often so hell bent on doing what they deem is the right thing (in a Totally Indifferent Universe)... that they often don't do the smart thing.. (so their lives can become extremely difficult as a result of their own Personal Philosophy)

And that's me paraphrasing what President Laura Roslin says to the “Lawful Good/Saint” Lee Adama during the series Battlestar Galactica (the Reboot)...

Perhaps sometimes we simply have to ask ourselves... is it more “evolved” to be Good or Evil? (Given ones perspective on such things to begin with).

posted May 08, 2018 11:18 PM            

There are others who truly mean well and always have. They don't fully understand that others don't. I've seen a food bank collapse because of evil people who were wolves in sheep's clothing and those who ran it with the best of intentions never suspected them (I was shocked when I learned the details of it, that the main guy running it had done something so naive that it boggled my mind, but to him it never occurred to him that others helping at the food bank had ulterior motives because that's not how his own mind worked--but you can bet he'll be more careful in the future, assuming he has the ability to learn from his mistakes, and doesn't give up in disillusionment). As a result they get exploited and taken advantage of which will lead to a hard life.

Those who work out of guilt have it even worse, because that guilt was typically placed there by wolves in sheep's clothing with ulterior motives (though guilt is a natural force that can do a lot of good, as long as it's not exploited) and other wolves will also take advantage of that. I dare say it's not true Goodness because it's done out of fear of punishment rather than genuine goodwill. Giving someone in poverty money because they're holding a knife at you isn't Goodness, and neither is doing it because you fear bad karma if you don't.

Of course that refutes the dream that if you do no wrong then no wrong can happen to you, and that if you do good then you'll get that good back several times over. It's why I don't believe that myself, and see karma as blind. And I remember as a runaway teen seeing kids who were bitterly disillusioned to see evil people in fancy cars who often got along with cops (who could be evil themselves) while those who were sweet were targets, causing many to give up their religious and spiritual beliefs. Though in their cases they exchanged one wrong belief for another by turning it inside out, and believing that the only way not to be a nail was to be a hammer, but that doesn't work either.

I could go on and it's more complicated than that. Long story short, if a person did good to receive good then it technically wouldn't be good, it would be more mercenary, like helping the sick not because you feel compassion for them, but because you want to get paid the most you can get away with for it (and if you take advantage of the desperate and dying, or even scaring the healthy, to sell them medicine and procedures they don't need, then you're downright Evil because you're intentionally inflicting suffering for your own gain). Going by the alignment system LK linked to, those aligned with Good regularly practice some sort of sacrifice for the common weal and the betterment of others, particularly strangers...and yet if doing so means you get good rewards, then it's not against your self-interest to do Good is it?

Think of Good and Evil as energies, with Good being self-sacrifice for the common good, and Evil being radical egoism which means advancing on the backs of others (those who simply form a contractual like agreement to live peaceable in exchange for living in peace is simply being Pragmatic/Neutral rather than Good or Evil). Someone hands out sack lunches to the homeless as they dream of the blessings coming their own way in exchange for this good deed. Does that produce as much Good energy as when I, at age 15, stood guard over a little boy on the streets when I was putting myself into danger by doing so as well as being miserable, and expecting no reward for it?

One is mercenary, while what I did was truly self-sacrificing (because I know this concept is going to be hard for some here to understand, I want to emphasize I expected no reward for what I did, and such never would've entered my mind and I'd have thought anyone who said so naive). And who knows, maybe I was God's instrument in those times, for the boy believed God would not allow harm to come to him if he slept on church ground, which I thought was a ridiculous belief (and saw males and females turning tricks in the same hiding place as I watched over the boy), and yet maybe the God he believed in sent me as His instrument even though I did not believe in his god myself...in which case, some of that God energy clung to me. (Some would see God as being offended that I didn't believe in Him, without realizing that implies God is a vain, narcissistic ******* .)

A lot of people don't understand that I take part in charity (careful of the wolves in sheep's clothing within it) not because I think I'll be rewarded for it, but because the universe is a cold place. If I believed that that universe was just with the good getting good results and the wicked getting their own results then I'd see no point in it...if anything, that belief in a just universe overseen by godlike figures of karma and the state of the world make me think that to perform charity is essentially defying the justice meted out by the universe. Likewise, if I believed God took care of people's material needs and protected them then I would not have stood guard over that little boy (even though the boy himself believed it, and I marveled that such an abused boy could hold such a belief).

But then given how the Russian Orthodox see God, perhaps that explains some things. The point to their Christianity (as I was exposed to it) was to be crucified WITH Christ (and thus expect to suffer), not have God and his angels be your genie who protected you and made you wealthy as all too many Christians believe.

That said, I do believe a spiritual vision I had at the time which changed my life was partially inspired by Granny praying to Jesus on my behalf (something I wouldn't learn for years, and the vision had nothing to do with Jesus).

posted May 08, 2018 11:23 PM            

People wired to do true good (that is self-sacrifice without expectation of reward) tend to not realize others who offer to help are not of the same mind set and are taken advantage of. Hopefully they learn better, though it's also possible that they are making amends in which case they'll be a lot better at helping others without being taken down by the wolves in sheep's clothing.

posted May 09, 2018 12:05 AM            

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/websermons/rampart.htm

In particular his own interpretation of Kant;

quote:

---

The Hell belief retards morality, even apart from the danger of perverting it as I've just described. It keeps people in the earliest stage of moral development: doing the "right" thing because they fear punishment of Hell if they don't. If you think that, you will never get to the point of doing what is right for its own sake. You won't have the luxury for that! And you will never come to trust your own moral judgment--because there is no margin for error, Hell being the consequence of a mistake. So you'll play it safe and play by the rules that the Hell-monger gives you. You know, the Grand Inquisitor. God becomes a pedantic teacher: you don't want to get an F, so you stick to rote memorization, and forget about creative thinking of your own. If Hell awaits you, you'd be a fool to do it any other way. For this reason, Kant correctly saw that a belief in Hell does not promote moral character but instead must always undermine it.

---

And just for my own curiosity I replaced the word “Hell” with “Karma” in the same paragraph and it makes for an interesting read just the same...

The Karma belief retards morality, even apart from the danger of perverting it as I've just described. It keeps people in the earliest stage of moral development: doing the "right" thing because they fear punishment of/from Karma if they don't. If you think that, you will never get to the point of doing what is right for its own sake. You won't have the luxury for that! And you will never come to trust your own moral judgment--because there is no margin for error, Karma being the consequence of a mistake. So you'll play it safe and play by the rules that the Karma-monger gives you. You know, the Grand Inquisitor. God becomes a pedantic teacher: you don't want to get an F, so you stick to rote memorization, and forget about creative thinking of your own. If Karma awaits you, you'd be a fool to do it any other way. For this reason, Kant correctly saw that a belief in Karma does not promote moral character but instead must always undermine it.

-=-=

I enjoyed what you shared PJ (your longer posts too), and those Nun's you mentioned may indeed have been of a Super Natural Order, or something Discordian sent back in time from the distant Future.

Actually, this .gif reminds me of the Sucker Punch vid you linked earlier :)

posted May 09, 2018 12:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Some of what you were saying there PJ, very much reminds me of Robert M Price's essay called Hell's Ramparts Rebuilt...

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/websermons/rampart.htm

In particular his own interpretation of Kant;

And just for my own curiosity I replaced the word “Hell” with “Karma” in the same paragraph and it makes for an interesting read just the same...

The [b]Karma belief retards morality, even apart from the danger of perverting it as I've just described. It keeps people in the earliest stage of moral development: doing the "right" thing because they fear punishment of/from Karma if they don't. If you think that, you will never get to the point of doing what is right for its own sake. You won't have the luxury for that! And you will never come to trust your own moral judgment--because there is no margin for error, Karma being the consequence of a mistake. So you'll play it safe and play by the rules that the Karma-monger gives you. You know, the Grand Inquisitor. God becomes a pedantic teacher: you don't want to get an F, so you stick to rote memorization, and forget about creative thinking of your own. If Karma awaits you, you'd be a fool to do it any other way. For this reason, Kant correctly saw that a belief in Karma does not promote moral character but instead must always undermine it.

-=-=

I enjoyed what you shared PJ (your longer posts too), and those Nun's you mentioned may indeed have been of a Super Natural Order, or something Discordian sent back in time from the distant Future.

Actually, this .gif reminds me of the Sucker Punch vid you linked earlier

[/B]

---

posted May 09, 2018 12:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Some of what you were saying there PJ, very much reminds me of Robert M Price's essay called Hell's Ramparts Rebuilt...

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/websermons/rampart.htm

In particular his own interpretation of Kant;

And just for my own curiosity I replaced the word “Hell” with “Karma” in the same paragraph and it makes for an interesting read just the same...

The [b]Karma belief retards morality, even apart from the danger of perverting it as I've just described. It keeps people in the earliest stage of moral development: doing the "right" thing because they fear punishment of/from Karma if they don't. If you think that, you will never get to the point of doing what is right for its own sake. You won't have the luxury for that! And you will never come to trust your own moral judgment--because there is no margin for error, Karma being the consequence of a mistake. So you'll play it safe and play by the rules that the Karma-monger gives you. You know, the Grand Inquisitor. God becomes a pedantic teacher: you don't want to get an F, so you stick to rote memorization, and forget about creative thinking of your own. If Karma awaits you, you'd be a fool to do it any other way. For this reason, Kant correctly saw that a belief in Karma does not promote moral character but instead must always undermine it.

-=-=

I enjoyed what you shared PJ (your longer posts too), and those Nun's you mentioned may indeed have been of a Super Natural Order, or something Discordian sent back in time from the distant Future.

Actually, this .gif reminds me of the Sucker Punch vid you linked earlier

[/B]

---

posted May 09, 2018 03:05 PM            

Somewhere along the line of human existence, we became 'self'-aware; then for some, that awareness stretched .. and we had the beginnings of awareness that there is a soul in a human being, then too that the soul was part of something bigger than it is. ...

There are people who roam the earth that quest-after the core of that "Knowing."

There are lots of ways to see how 'filthy' we are as the human race... How perverse we can be-- How each and every desire can be twisted so that a person can utterly condemn their own self and individual into a nothing... and decide from there, what is important or not.

No one having value? Each to their own conscience, which also can be very dark and perverted.., even THINKING/convinced that you are doing Good ........... even IF it be only your own delusion.

All is vanity. Vain purposelessness?
There is no one that is good.

"Desiderata (with intro/prologue)" by Les Crane, 1971
[3:52] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdNwa-g_Uu8

{Be Gentle with yourself ...}
'I have Value'.
Who I am, 'what' I think and Believe Matters ...

For some people ....
Believing in GOD Matters.

posted August 07, 2018 05:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ayelet:
I somewhat agree with PixieJane.
A question: is liberation a reward? Suppose you do good without expecting a reward. Then you are liberated. But what if this is your wish? I think that is something of a twisted logic. Liberation is our destination. But I think it is not our last destination, but a station. Pain is a given, suffering is optional. One can experience pain but not suffer so much. One can maintain a peace of mind. To sum it, there is something more precious to receive from life than any reward, and doing good is both a privilege and a must, and is, ultimately, the only option. Maybe our free will is limited in that it's sure and undeniable destination is a complete union with the divine will.

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posted December 15, 2018 08:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
Our species is a strange mix.
We are animals, and have instincts to survive.
We have self-awareness and intelligence.

Somewhere along the line of human existence, we became 'self'-aware; then for some, that awareness stretched .. and we had the beginnings of awareness that there is a soul in a human being, then too that the soul was part of something bigger than it is. ...

There are people who roam the earth that quest-after the core of that "Knowing."

There are lots of ways to see how 'filthy' we are as the human race... How perverse we can be-- How each and every desire can be twisted so that a person can utterly condemn their own self and individual into a nothing... and decide from there, what is important or not.

No one having value? Each to their own conscience, which also can be very dark and perverted.., even THINKING/convinced that you are doing Good ........... even IF it be only your own delusion.

All is vanity. Vain purposelessness?
There is no one that is good.

"Desiderata (with intro/prologue)" by Les Crane, 1971
[3:52] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdNwa-g_Uu8

{Be Gentle with yourself ...}
'I have Value'.
Who I am, 'what' I think and Believe Matters ...

For some people ....
Believing in GOD Matters.

"For Thou, Oh Lord, are a Shield for me--
The Glory and The Lifter of my Head"
-- Psalm 3:3
(Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir) [5:46] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y284YvkYrZo

---