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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 19
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 02, 2009 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message
Before you flip out, yes, I'm quoting O'Reilly. HOWEVER, I am posting this because I want your opinions on the part I'm going to bold. That is, his definition of what modern liberal tenets actually are.

quote:

How Dumb Are We Americans?
Friday, May 01, 2009
By Bill O'Reilly

A new Rasmussen poll on President Obama is somewhat startling and worth analyzing because Rasmussen is very accurate.

According to the data, 34 percent of Americans strongly approve of the president's job performance, while 32 percent strongly disapprove. So that's why the debate over Barack Obama is so raucous. He may be a popular guy, but the country remains divided on the job deal.

Also, 73 percent of Americans now expect government spending to rise. That's up from 54 percent last November.

But get this: Just 69 percent say Barack Obama is a political liberal. What? Where are the other 31 percent? Oh, they think he's a moderate or something.

Are you telling me that a third of the country doesn't know the president is a liberal guy? Can that be possible? Sadly, the answer is yes.

The president presents himself as a moderate, a man who believes in tradition and a free market place. But that is not who the president really is, and his voting record, his appointments and his vision for the country prove it.

President Obama really believes the federal government has an obligation to insure a certain quality of life for everyday Americans. He really believes he can convince the world to help us fight evil people by using logic and reason. He really believes that evil people should not be compelled to divulge information, even in life-death situations. He really believes that wealthy Americans owe a large chunk of their prosperity to other folks not as prosperous. And he really believes social engineering, not self-reliance, should be the theme of government.

Those are all liberal tenets, but apparently 31 percent of Americans do not know this.

Now, there is nothing wrong with having a liberal belief system. But the president's job is to solve problems and keep us safe, and herein lies the problem.

The best example I can give you is national security, your personal safety. By reversing the Bush anti-terror policies, Mr. Obama has tied the hands of American counter-intelligence agents. No longer are they on the offensive. Some experienced agents have quit; others are phoning it in.


According to Stratfor, the USA is reverting back to the failed counter-intel policies before we were hit on 9/11. The enemy well understands the shift in American policy and is stepping up terror activity in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, while at the same time Iran and North Korea continue to give the world the middle finger.

So presidential rhetoric aside, the unintended consequences of the president's first 100 days have dramatically altered the terror battlefield. No question.

The president is a sincere man. I believe that. But I do not believe he truly understands evil, and his liberal policies will have a very hard time containing it. Wait and see.

And that's "The Memo."


So, do you agree that what I've bolded actually represents what modern liberals believe? And do you agree with those beliefs?

For my part, I think it is an accurate description of what liberals I've known/know believe. I personally disagree entirely with every point except for the "logic and reason". I believe in using logic and reason up to a point ... and that points depends entirely upon the willingness or ability of the other party to actually understand and be logical and reasonable themselves. (And I'm not talking about people with legitimate mental handicaps here, btw.)

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cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake

Posts: 149
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 02, 2009 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpn_edgar_winner     Edit/Delete Message
uhm, i totally disagree. i wonder if he tried to reason with hitler if history would have been different. seems very naive to me. evil needs to be eradicated and i consider myself pretty liberal.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 57
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 02, 2009 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
"He really believes he can convince the world to help us fight evil people by using logic and reason".

I find this hard to swallow. If O'Bomber actually believes this then O'Bomber is illogical, unreasonable and irrational.

Most of the free world get their jollies bad mouthing America...while at the very same time depending on America for their own defense. Why would they wish to change what for them is the best of both sides?

O'Bomber couldn't even get NATO nations to send more combat troops to Afghanistan. He got stiffed. Bush permitted Europe to negotiate diplomatically with Iran and got a big fat zero for his efforts. Of course European diplomacy also got a big fat zip, nada, zilch from Iran in those diplomatic negotiations.

So, if O'Bomber really believes in the charm. logic and reason assault on evil, he's not playing with a full deck.

Lastly, I wish conservatives would stop calling Marxist Socialist Leftists...Liberals. There's nothing of liberalism in their outlooks or actions.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 56
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 02, 2009 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
President Obama really believes the federal government has an obligation to insure a certain quality of life for everyday Americans.

I'm pretty certain every President does regardless of ideology.

quote:
He really believes he can convince the world to help us fight evil people by using logic and reason.

Logic and reason are usually considered good things, and easier to get behind and endorse than their opposites.

If liberals are defined by logic and reason, I wouldn't really consider that a negative.

quote:
He really believes that evil people should not be compelled to divulge information, even in life-death situations.

I have a problem with this statement on two levels.

First, it's presumptuous to believe that O'Reilly knows what Obama's values are.

Second, there is no certain means of compelling information from people.

As a liberal tenet, I think this is one that's actually true. If the United States starts cozying up to torture, then undoubtedly the world will follow. There's a reason we as a nation were against torture, and we'd do well to remember it.

quote:
He really believes that wealthy Americans owe a large chunk of their prosperity to other folks not as prosperous.

Hmmm...I got a check from Bush's administration. I haven't received a check from Obama's.

I don't agree that it is a liberal tenet.

quote:
And he really believes social engineering, not self-reliance, should be the theme of government.

I'd like to hear O'Reilly's definition of social engineering before commenting on that one, because he seems to have used it under a different context than its normal use.

I think what he's trying to say is that Obama believes the government should be the benefactor for society. Once again, I'm reminded of the Bush stimulus package. Is this an Obama thing, or is it really an any-President-in-office thing?

Every President is going to see his/her administration as a public benefactor in some way. You increase the government in the way Democrats are accused of, and it's said that they believe government can solve all of society's problems. You decrease the government in the way Republicans like to think that they do [while actually they don't], and the idea behind it is actually the same: we're going to solve all of society's problems by getting government out of the way. Both ideas have strong and weak points.

_____________________________________

In conclusion, I don't think these are liberal tenets. In general, here are the things I'd put on the liberal tenets list:

- Diplomacy over conflict; no rushing to war

- Fiscal responsibility

- Taxing responsibly (not undertaxing and borrowing the rest)

- Domestic interests supercede foreign

- Equal protections under the law

- Science over speculation

There's probably more, but those are some of the significant ones. Do I think Obama encapsulates liberal thought? No.

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