posted July 29, 2009 01:46 PM         

On Page 425 of Obama’s Health Care Bill, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes . . . They are going to push SUICIDE to cut Medicare spending! Listen to Fred Thompson Interview

Fred Thompson: Interviews

Now, CALL YOUR PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON !!!! Tell them to read page 425 if they don’t read anything else. Surely, some of them have parents.

You might want to forward the following web site address to everyone in your address book. It provides the email address of every elected official in the United States. The web address is www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml . It might help others make the necessary contacts regarding page 425 of the proposed health care bill.

posted July 29, 2009 02:42 PM         

apparently, cpn, it is NOT true.

from a link within the above link:

"Um, no. That’s not what HR3200 says. Here’s the short version of what it really says:

The section under question is Section 1233 of HR3200 (the House health care bill) and it is amending subsection s(2) of Section 1861 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x). Section 1233 of HR3200 adds new sub-paragraph (FF) to the list of what Medicare will pay for as defined in Section 1861 of the Social Security Act.

Section 1233 is saying that Medicare will pay for an "advance care planning consultation" no more often than once every five years unless the patient's health status changes as a result of certain diagnoses or the patient is admitted to a nursing home, long-term care facility, or hospice. Such a consultation may result in a written directive about care and that directive may include information about such areas as antibiotics and intravenous feeding and hydration as well as the usual DNR instructions and any wishes with regard to facility transfer.

In other words, Section 1233 is creating a new type of “treatment” that will be paid for by Medicare. It will only pay for one such consultation every five years unless the patient’s health status changes, in which case Medicare will pay for a consultation when that change occurs. This is not a mandate; this is a new entitlement. It may not be an entitlement everyone likes but it is still something extra for those on Medicare.

Here’s the long version in which I show you how to follow the trail yourself:

You can access the House’s health care bill (HR3200) via THOMAS. Say you want to search by bill number and enter “HR3200” in the search box. Say you want “Text of Legislation”. Click on the hyperlink for “SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.” This section is amending Section 1861 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) by adding a new subparagraph (FF).

Now take a look at the Social Security Act. You can find the home page for it here. Click on the hyperlink for “Social Security Act Table of Contents”, then click on the hyperlink for “Title XVIII Health Insurance for the Aged and Disabled”, then on the hyperlink for “Sec. 1861. Definitions of services, institutions, etc.”

I’ve sent you the long way around because if you just start with Section 1861 you don’t really know where you are. If you want to go straight to that Section simply click here.

Hunt down the page until you find the centered heading “Medical and Other Health Services”. Directly under that is subsection (s) which begins:

(s) The term “medical and other health services” means any of the following items or services:
(1) physicians' services;
(2)(A) services and supplies (including drugs and biologicals which are not usually self-administered by the patient) furnished as an incident to a physician's professional service, of kinds which are commonly furnished in physicians' offices and are commonly either rendered without charge or included in the physicians' bills (or would have been so included but for the application of section 1847B);

and goes on to list 31 “medical and other health services” concluding with:

(DD)[450] items and services furnished under an intensive cardiac rehabilitation program (as defined in subsection (eee)(4));[451]

(EE)[452] kidney disease education services (as defined in subsection (ggg));"

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!!

posted July 29, 2009 03:52 PM         

So, if it's true Thompson said assisted suicide..or non treatment is to be pushed on senior citizens, I would be inclined to believe what Thompson says.

Do you have a link to Thompson discussing the section of O'BomberCare dealing with end of life issues? If so, please post it.

This is a link to the pdf file of the bill in question.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf

Whatever the truth about page 425 and the related pages, it's already out that treatment of illnesses, diseases and injuries will be up to a board of bureaucrats who will determine if you will get treatment at all or just be sent home to die with your supply of aspirin...and don't call them in the morning.

This is part of Tom Daschle's plan to ration life giving, life saving medical care based on a cost/benefits ratio.

If, for instance you are...say 75 and actuarial tables say those 75 have a life expectancy of 76, or 1 year...and you have a serious and expensive to treat illness or injury, you're going to get a death sentence even though your injury or illness is treatable with surgery or drugs.

Further, actuarial tables only speak to how many in a group will die at each age listed...they don't speak to WHICH MEMBERS OF A GROUP WILL DIE. So, you may be 77 and live to 90 or beyond...if, you're not on the public insurance plan O'Bomber and the Marxist Socialists have devised. If you are on their plan, plan to have life saving, life extending treatments curtailed or denied outright.

Now, I don't give a damn that members of Congress are scared to death to vote for O'BomberCare on the premise their constituents will dismiss them in 2010.

What they should be really worried about is all the sons, daughters, cousins, aunts, uncles, sisters and brothers of those they consign to the grave who will take it very personally when the government who forced mom and dad, grandmother and grandfather into this crappy Socialist health care system..hands out death sentences to members of their families.

What they may not be considering is that Americans are not the British, Americans are not the Danes, not the Swedes and are not the Cubans. Among those family members are many..millions of ex Army, Navy, Air Force, ex FBI, ex CIA, ex US Marshals, ex Secret Service and millions of others who are gun owners. Making war on seniors is a stunningly stupid idea.

To me, that's the main issue. Page 425 does say there will be counseling for end of life issues and believe me, the government doctors will be pushing you towards euthanasia or non treatment...no matter what Scopes or anyone else says...you know, in the public interest. you wouldn't want to be a burden on society or your family would you?

The government is going to attempt to cut Medicare and Social Security costs by consigning many seniors to their graves.

Why do you think there's specific language in the Senate version EXEMPTING congressional members from the provisions of O'BomberCare?

That exemption was put there by Ted Kennedy...a man, a hypocrite who would be dead right now if he were under the provisions of O'BomberCare.

posted July 29, 2009 04:33 PM         

that is the link, it will load automatically.

doing the footwork to see for myself is tedious and time consuming..., but i guess there is no other way to really understand this stuff...becasue people will tell you ANYTHING. UGH.

posted July 30, 2009 02:16 PM         

"15 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
16 (a) MEDICARE.—
17 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
18 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
19 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
20 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
21 subparagraph (DD);
22 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
23 subparagraph (EE); and
24 (iii) by adding at the end the fol25
lowing new subparagraph:
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00424 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC
July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.)
F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML
f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2)
425
1 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
2 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
3 (B) by adding at the end the following new
4 subsection:
5 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con8
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de9
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
12 consultation shall include the following:
13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad14
vance care planning, including key questions and
15 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo16
ple to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad18
vance directives, including living wills and durable
19 powers of attorney, and their uses.
20 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con24
sumers and their families with advance care plan25
ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00425 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC
July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.)
F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML
f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2)
426
1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
2 service organizations (including those funded
3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
4 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
5 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail6
able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene7
fits for such services and supports that are available
8 under this title.
9 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
10 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
11 orders, which shall include—
12 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
13 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
14 the individual’s family and the reasons why
15 such an order should be updated periodically as
16 the health of the individual changes;
17 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi18
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci19
sions regarding the completion of such an
20 order; and
21 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
22 an individual may use to determine the require23
ments of the State in which such individual re24
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi25
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un-
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00426 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC
July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.)
F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML
f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2)
427
1 able to communicate those wishes, including re2
quirements regarding the designation of a sur3
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
4 care proxy).
5 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement
6 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations
7 furnished in a State—
8 ‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been
9 addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining
10 treatment to constitute a set of medical orders
11 respected across all care settings; and
12 ‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for or13
ders for life sustaining treatment described in
14 clause (iii).
15"

of course there's more! but sorry if i don't see any MANDATORY life termination counselling! this is counselling to deal with when you may not be able to make your wishes known, how to plan your last years especially if you are feeble, etc.

another storm in a teapot about a couple of tea leaves.

my mother had a DNR and other papers all in place - she knew her time was limited and she might at some point not be able to communicate - yet when one day she had the choice of taking or refusing a ventilator she did, overriding her own instructions.

posted July 30, 2009 02:40 PM         

While the current language doesn't say it's mandatory to get end of life counseling; once they get their foot in the door, I believe it will be mandatory...all in the "public interest".

Gee, I wonder where in the world they're going to get all those death counselors? Does ACORN affiliates ring a bell with anyone?

posted July 30, 2009 04:47 PM         

there are plenty of people already providing counselling for end-of-life arrangements, living trusts, DNRS, etc. why would they need to go to ACORN?

at this point they're not even talking about getting rid of private insurance, just making it affordable for people to get good insurance that competes with the robber barons in place now - which should make them more competitive, not less.

i know what you think of the socialist system but it is the economy that is screwed up not any particular system. theirs is no worse off than ours, believe me! and when they brought private insurance in, as i've said before, it was SUPER REASONABLE because their audience was not captive and they had to compete for business...

and where does it say we HAVE to sign up for government insurance? the thing is, like, a thousand pages long so if you can point me in the right direction i would seriously appreciate it!

posted July 30, 2009 05:32 PM         

A government funded health care plan will force private insurers out of business. This is one of the easiest series of dots to connect.

Who in the hell can compete with the US government which will simply tax US citizens to subsidize rates for their enrollees.

Further, employers...who are no fools will quickly abandon their private insurers and force their employees into the Marxist Socialist O'BomberCare plan...a simple business decision to lower their costs.

Hmmm, I've seen this kind of question before...as though the Socialists in Congress are going to clearly announce to the public that they intend to deny medical services and treatments to those on Medicare and Medicaid.

They're raving lunatics but they know if they told citizens what is actually in their O'BomberCare bill all hell would break loose.

posted July 30, 2009 09:18 PM         

one more time, private insurance in semi-socialist countries give better service at cheaper rates than i see here. a complete blanket socialized healthcare program will never pass through congress/senate and you know it. we will be lucky to get a break at all with the lies spread like above...

posted July 31, 2009 09:21 AM         

Fred Thompson got it all wrong. O'Bomber isn't a big tax and spend Marxist?

Let's be clear here. The tripling of the national debt...so far, the proposed trillions to fund a Socialist health care system, the $787 BILLION DOLLAR dud Porkulus bill is money which will have to be paid back.

Is there anyone here who knows what a TRILLION DOLLARS actually is?

Let me put this in perspective for you.

If on January 1st in year 1 AD one started writing a 1 million dollar check every day and continued day to day....there would still be more than 700 years left to write those daily million dollar checks before you get to 1 TRILLION DOLLARS.

O'Bomber will, if he leaves office in 2012, leave a national debt of over 11 TRILLION DOLLARS and that doesn't include the money down the rat hole of Socialist health care.

So, Thompson got it all wrong?

Not hardly.

The people who got it wrong are those who elected a Marxist Socialist empty suit as president of the United States...oh, and fact check got it all wrong too.

All that money is going to have to be paid back. If every bit of property, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, commercial property, savings accounts...property of every kind and type..including cash were confiscated from the rich and used to pay down the national debt accumulated by O'Bomber, it wouldn't make so much as a small dent in the debt.

Fact check needs to check their facts...or hire someone competent to do the heavy lifting for them.

"Thompson repeated misleading claims about Obama's tax program, saying it would bring "one of the largest tax increases in American history." But as increases go, Obama's package is hardly a history-maker. It would raise taxes for families with incomes above $250,000. Most people would see a cut."
Fact check

Of course, this is boiler plate bullshiit. It's America's middle class who will be forced to pay this off, not the very rich who are incapable of paying it off even if they wanted to.

Btw, the top 1% of earners in America already pay 40% of the tax load.

posted July 31, 2009 11:22 AM         

and no more horror stories please, because they can be matched,one for one, with our own homegrown ones. just depends where you look.

posted July 31, 2009 07:35 PM         

You're wasting your time attempting to sell me on the glories of European Socialist health care systems katatonic.

Barney Frank: Public Option Leads to Gov't Control
Friday, July 31, 2009 11:19 AM
By: Jim Meyers

Rep. Barney Frank said healthcare reform legislation that includes a public insurance option is the first step toward a single payer system providing all Americans with government health insurance.

"I think if we get a good public option it could lead to single payer, and that's the best way to reach single payer," the Massachusetts Democrat said in remarks reported by The Hill newspaper.

Frank favors a single payer system but supports the less comprehensive public insurance option in the current House bill.

"The best way we're going to get single payer, the only way," he said, "is to have a public option to demonstrate its strength and its power."

posted July 31, 2009 09:44 PM         

nor do i buy that it is better here even though it costs more. you explained away our lower life expectancy by the statistic that we have more murders here - that's an indication of the state of our society, and maybe our mental health as a country. i don't call it a GOOD thing!?!

as far as i'm concerned until we stop pushing pills for every ailment and convincing people they have no inherent healing abilities, healthcare is a joke whatever the system.

i was asking you to point me to relevant portions of this bill. it should be obvious by now that the way you connect dots doesn't compute with me!

the intentions of congress are extremely mixed on this and it is highly unlikely there will ever be enough consensus to push through a single-payer nationalized healthcare like you fear.