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Author Topic:   Obama on being a Muslim
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 1554
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 06, 2010 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Glad to see your comments MVM and I agree with you. There are many religions represented by people in America..both by Americans and those with temporary status AND, they are all welcome here to worship as they see fit...or to believe nothing and/or worship nothing.

I think most people who call themselves Christians would not want to see a Christian Theocracy or have Christianity made the official religion of the United States.

In the beginning acoustic, before the United States was a nation, many came here to escape from the Catholic Church and the English Anglican Church...which were the official churches of most of Europe.

Now, people mostly come here for safety, liberty and opportunity.

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2382
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted May 06, 2010 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
AG, my family immigrated here years ago for my dad's work (yes, Jwhop, we came for opportunity...and actually from the UK as well lol)...he's a Catholic (turned atheist), my mom's a Muslim (turned agnostic), and we all noticed the Christian leanings when we came here.
It's not the first thing we noticed, of course.
But it's not as though it was unseen either. It's there, definitely.

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2382
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted May 06, 2010 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I was also thinking about it, and I think it's interesting because if you take a drive around most neighborhoods in the US, you will see more churches than synagogues or mosques or buddhist centers or whatever. It's still the majority. In fact, there are more churches being built as we speak, especially now with the country so divided. In the south in certain places, where it's a lot cheaper to live, where young families are moving (places they can afford) you will see lots of churches. Lots. And flyers in the mail to attend, not just for worship, but also for a sense of community. So Christianity is trying to merge with the newer generation. How can we say the country is secular? It's not, not really.
I had this same argument with my ex-husband, a catholic, who still attended mass with his mother, and who fought me tooth and nail on this very subject when I insisted that there really is not so much of a divide between church and state.
Maybe those who were raised religiously do not see it? I don't know. It's kind of interesting, because I see it and I was certainly not raised religiously at ALL. No church, mosque, whatever. Religious arguments though lol. Lots of them

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 3788
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posted May 06, 2010 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i was raised non-religious too MVM. i remember the first overnight i went on and when prayertime (bedtime) came i was at a complete loss never having been subjected to that scary childhood prayer (now i lay me down to sleep).

unfortunately it seems to be the fundamentalists who are shouting about how this is a christian nation. an english friend of mine commented after obama"s acceptance speech "well the us seems to have finally lived up to its "equality" creed, when is a president going to accept the office without bringing god into it?"

i am neither christian nor religious but i do believe in "god", not the fatherfigure of many religions but an all pervasive source energy that empowers us to self-determine...therefore while i have no objection to "under god" in the Pledge, i don't think it refers to the god of any particular religion.

i realize i am the exception in having grown up surrounded by people who were largely irreligious with a heavy smattering of lapsed catholics, protestants and jews...muslims were rare in my childhood but there was also a japanese family amongst my community. however my parents, raised in different religions, carried that conditioning and the arguments between those religions all the way through their marriage!!

many of the founding fathers were also masons but that does not make this a masonic country as many conspiracy theorists would have us believe. but to me a CHristian nation carries the implication that its citizens should be christians. it is not only islam that urges its members to go out and multiply their religion...

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 1554
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 06, 2010 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
"you obviously not only did not read my post or open the link...Node"

But Node, I did open the links you posted and found the percentages of Christians in America in polls listed there are very close to what I posted.
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

Certainly, I wouldn't quibble with you over a percent or 2. But the other polls which were also on the same page vary..depending on whose poll it happens to be.

I didn't see anything there of statistical significance to change anyone's opinion.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 3378
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 06, 2010 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
MVM,

the same argument could be used to argue that USA is a European-American nation because most of USA are European-Americans. It was a nation founded by European-Americans which were mainly British who didn't give a damn about the Native Americans nor the Black African Americans. Amendments were made to the Constitution so there would be racial,ethnic equality here in USA.


Technically, USA was a European-American nation founded by European-Americans for only European-Americans. That doesn't mean that USA is a European-American nation.

USA is a multiracial,multiethnic nation even though majority of USA are European-Americans.

USA is multi-faith nation even though majority of USA are Christians.

Christianity has many denominations. It is so divided. Many of the Christians don't seem to practice what Jesus preached "turn the other cheek", "love thy enemy", "judge no lest ye be judged", and other things.

He even said "Blessed is the meek for they shall inherit the earth"

My mother is nonpracticing Roman Catholic like many Portuguese that are traditionally Roman Catholic, and my stepfather was too. My father was a Baptist.

I went to Evangelistic Christian Center for Sunday school for 3 years until I learned about theory of evolution in 7th grade.

Other than that, I had no religious preference, but I believed in God.

for religion, my navy dogtags said: no religious preference

I was an atheist for a couple of years until my grandfather's suicide in 1998.


Since 1998, my beliefs fit with New Age,Neopaganism,New Thought,and Unitarian Universalism.

Since May 30, 2009, I am member of Spiritual Life Center which is an interfaith unity church.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 1554
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 06, 2010 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Edited**

OK Raymond, no problem

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 3378
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 06, 2010 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
sorry

made a dyslexic mistake,

I meant a majority of USA is heterosexual


btw...I made an edit to my last post, and deleted the sexuality stuff


but yeah

a majority of people in USA are heterosexual, but that doesn't mean that USA is a heterosexual country.


any ways

the point that I was trying to make was that the majority of something in a nation doesn't dictate the whole nation is that majority. The minorities have to be considered too. So that the nation is a nation of that majority and minorities.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2382
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted May 06, 2010 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond, like I said before, this argument to me is not about the people who live in the US - again, there are many, many different types. I am simply talking about the founding of the country. And really the demographics tend to lean toward christianity. I sort of believe in god too. But I am not a christian. I am not a follower of anything. I live in a country which is mostly Christian, I realize.
To me it's less about the people really, than about the cultural remnants from the past and the history.

I realize the term Christian Nation gives people the willies. I get it. I'm just saying that we can't deny that it's a very strong part of the foundation.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 1554
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 07, 2010 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Could we put this argument to rest. It's unproductive, counter-productive even.

Most Americans don't give a flip what your religion is...or isn't. Don't give a flip if you're Christian, Buddhist, Islamic, New Age, Wiccan, agnostic, atheist or any other religion or unbeliever under the sun.

Whatever your religion is or if you're not religious at all, you're welcome under the laws of the United States.

But, get this straight. There is a theme of the Judeo Christian God running through the founding documents and Founders of the United States.

They made it crystal clear that the rights of men..women too...do not come from government but from God...and that God is the God of of the Old Testament and the New Testament...same God.

The earliest expression of those "rights" and from whom they come...is found in the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self evident; that all men (women too) are created equal, That they are endowed by their Creator, (God) with certain inalienable Rights (rights which cannot be taken away), That AMONG these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, (Rights given by God), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.......

Now, if you are living in the United States...AND you are arguing against the principles which the Founders of the United States recognized and acknowledged when they signed the Declaration of Independence which specifically names the Creator (God), Nature's God, (God) and Divine Providence, (God)..from which all rights of men and women are given...and this is the same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and, the God of the New Testament...then, you are drilling a dry hole.

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