posted October 28, 2010 03:43 PM         

They have joined the serf class, dependent on government bureaucrats to educate, treat, feed, clothe and house them. Cradle to grave Socialism.

But, when the money runs out...as it always does under Socialism and other people's money cannot be had, then....the belt tightening begins and angry mobs take to the streets to demand the impossible; that the status quo continue which cannot be made to happen.

posted October 29, 2010 06:54 AM         

regarding the union bringing change, well not in france, and particularily not in this conflict. only 8% of french workers belonged to a union in 2003 (sources wikipedia). don't see how your comment can apply. no, it's the people who's in the street. the union have the technical know-how of demonstrations, they can organize it or structure it, but the impetus is not coming from them. if you can't understand that, especially in this conflict, you really miss an important piece of the puzzle.

posted October 29, 2010 12:55 PM         

quote:

---

They have joined the serf class, dependent on government bureaucrats to educate, treat, feed, clothe and house them. Cradle to grave Socialism.

-jwhop-

---

well I guess the US are the promise land?!

quote:

---

Debt: France has the sixth highest public deficit in Europe in percentage terms, at 8.2 per cent. The US’s deficit reached 12.5 per cent in 2009. The debt of French households was 89.1 per cent of income in 2006, according to the OECD. In Britain and the United States that ratio stood at 168.5 percent and 139.7 percent respectively.

sources

---

who's massively enslaved here??? you also said...

quote:

---

But, when the money runs out...as it always does under Socialism and other people's money cannot be had, then....the belt tightening begins and angry mobs take to the streets to demand the impossible; that the status quo continue which cannot be made to happen.
-jwhop-

---

well, here is an informed answer to your imagination:

quote:

---

GDP: France’s Gross Domestic Product has doubled in the last 20 years. It was over 2000 billion euros in 2009, according to the IMF and the World Bank. That puts it fifth in the world league table, behind the US, Japan, China and Germany and just ahead of the UK. Over the same period, there has been a 10 per cent shift of the share of GDP from salaries to profits.

---

posted October 29, 2010 03:14 PM         

jwhop where do you think the "state's" money comes from? taxes and pension payments BY THE PEOPLE WHO EARN WAGES. especially here in the good old USA where most people who earn over the "average" (which is at abou 35K/yr last i looked) write off a large portion of their tax bill with LEGAL deductions etc, and those who make even more than that frequently write off EVERYTHING and end up with a 0 tax bill...ask warren buffet, one billionaire who is not ashamed to admit it...and not averse to paying a bit more out of his obvious excess income.

posted October 31, 2010 07:30 AM         

October 25, 2010
Socialism and Reality
By Steve McCann

The images on the television screen emanating from Europe are a sobering reminder that socialism has failed wherever it has been tried and will always do so despite the best efforts of the die-hard true believers. The riots in the streets of France and Greece, the announced layoffs of nearly 500,000 government employees in the United Kingdom, and the potential national bankruptcy of Ireland, Spain, Italy, and Portugal are the current face of this failure.

Yet within the halls of power in Washington, D.C. there is a socialist/progressive cabal, and its titular leader Barack Obama, oblivious to this reality. These ideologues continue to cling to the belief that they have a unique ability to succeed where so many others have failed. The egocentric American Left know no bounds, and their determination to impose their will upon the United States has not and will not abate despite the results of any election.

Having been raised to believe in their preordinance to rule and incubated in an environment of national peace, prosperity, and a lack of adversity, these adherents to a powerful central government, with themselves at the controls, are incapable of change and admitting failure despite overwhelming current and historical evidence.

The original and present-day proponents of socialism fail to take into account one very basic but immutable factor: the fundamental nature of the human race as manifested in the industrial age. The most dominant trait mankind has, as do all living creatures, is an innate desire to survive and prosper.

While some may willingly choose to pursue subsistence on their own terms, to the majority of the human race, the path of least resistance is the most desired. Thus, mankind is susceptible to financial scams, gambling, crime, and resentment or violence towards those who may have more. But above all, many people are very open to the concept of a central authority providing them with the means of livelihood with no thought as to the how (the public-sector unions being the most egregious current example).

A secondary characteristic of human race, and the most dangerous, is the need by some to conquer or maintain total control over their fellow man. Lust for power has always been with us.

The mid-19th century saw the industrial revolution and the rise in living standards and education for the populace in Europe. It was during this same period that socialist/Marxist theory appeared. Those who considered themselves superior to the masses, and in the past may have achieved ruling status through the power of intimidation over the illiterate and unwashed, now had to look to other means to achieve control of the levers of governing.

The easiest course to assume this power was to promise, in return for the support of the people, that the state, through a new ruling class, would provide the citizenry cradle-to-grave economic security. Thus, a Faustian bargain encompassing the desire by the majority for ease of survival and others for the need to rule was entered into. The populace, having committed itself to this compact, would expect never-ending freedom from adversity.

However, within this arrangement is the seed of its own destruction. For socialism to succeed, it must have an economic underpinning that can provide the foundation for massive social spending. (**CAPITALISM**) The Soviet Union, as early as the 1920s and '30s, proved that complete state control of the means of production was a colossal failure, as it could not produce sufficient wealth to support the population, and their version of socialism (Communism) had to be enforced at the point of a gun or by starvation.

Only the capitalist economic system, which is anathema to a powerful central government and its attendant oligarchy, can produce sufficient wealth necessary to underwrite a social safety net for the general public, promulgate upward mobility, and finance the security of any nation.

Capitalism, reflective of that portion of mankind choosing to seek subsistence on their own terms, does by its nature celebrate the success of the individual, not the collective. Individuals, separately or together, driven by the motive of self-enrichment, produce goods or services desired by others. In the process, jobs and wealth are created, thus benefiting society as a whole.

A massive tension exists between those who adhere to central government control and swear fealty to socialist philosophy and those who produce the wealth of a nation. As the state inherently has more power than the individual, once socialist doctrine dominates the ruling class, government begins a relentless process of injecting itself into the affairs of the individual and producer class.

Those who believe they have a manifest destiny to rule and are faithful to socialist tenets have an overwhelming egocentric psyche and a predisposition to control the populace and economic activity through laws, regulations, taxes, intimidation, and in extreme cases, outright force. The result is the inexorable march toward state control of the economy. Despite the history of failure, every new generation of adherents to socialist ideology believe that they can make this arrangement work and maintain their unwritten agreement with the citizenry.

But the reality is that they cannot, as the economic engine of capitalism will not continue to produce wealth if it is increasingly put under the thumb of bureaucrats and central planners inevitably attempting not only to institute governmental management of the economy, but also to regulate the day-to-day activities of all citizens. The motivation of the producer class will be stifled, and they will either drop out, join the dependent class, or simply move on to other, more hospitable countries -- a reality more in play than ever in today's global economy.

In due course, centralized governments will, as history has shown, turn to excessive and unsustainable borrowing, as well as inflation, to finance their societal obligations. The contract between the statists and the citizens who were promised cradle-to-grave security cannot be maintained, as the economic underpinning of this arrangement will quickly erode.

Social and economic chaos resulting in dramatically lower standard of living must inevitably ensue, and in some cases, these circumstances will lead to violence or revolution.(**HELLO, HELLO, HELLO**) No amount of promises, demonization of capitalism, seizure of the means of production, takeover of the media, confiscatory taxes, or printing of money will reinstitute prosperity or security for the populace. These desperate actions serve only to accelerate the downward spiral.

Within the United States, because of the socialist indoctrination of the governing class, this process is well on its way and will culminate, if not stopped now, in the end of this nation as an economic and military power.

The founding fathers of the United States, one of the greatest confluences of brilliant minds in the history of mankind, understood the basic nature of human beings. They accordingly set forth a form of government and written Constitution to greatly limit those who seek hegemony over the people and to limit the ability of the people to seek unlimited security from a central government. They recognized that only the individual free to pursue economic happiness will result in a society wherein all can benefit on a sustained basis.

President Obama and his minions represent the greatest threat to the United States since its founding. The images of failure from around the globe must not be lost on the American citizens. They must understand that the country's destiny rests in utilizing the governmental structure bequeathed to them by the founders to strip away, as quickly as possible, the power expropriated by today's ruling class.

posted October 31, 2010 07:39 AM         

To the editor:

As of three days ago I was a diehard liberal Democrat. I followed the trumpet call and marched in lockstep with whatever was declared to be true by the liberals in my family, all my friends and particularly my professors in college. There was no other choice a sane person could make and those who were "conservative" were no more than bible thumping fascists and greddy capitalists who just wanted to exploit all of us.

There was no straying from this orthdoxy and frankly and I never wanted to stray as I was comfortable in that environment. I was overjoyed when Barack Obama was elected President and despite his lack of overall success (from a liberal viewpoint) to date I continued to gloat in the fact that we had defeated those neanderthals known as the "right" and that in time our policies would be triumphant. I began to get a bit queasy when I observed what was happening in Greece and France etc, but wrote that off to their unique situation and not what we could accomplish here, if we just stuck to our principles.

Last Tuesday, Oct 26, someone at my office left a copy of an article on my desk entitled "Socialism and Reality" by Steve McCann.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/10/conversion.html

At first I was going to throw it away as it originated on a far-right wacko internet site (as had been told), but the lead caught my attention so I read the article. As I finished the last paragraph a sense of dread began to flow over me as I thought, my God this makes sense and I had never thought about these points written in such a clear concise and logical manner. Surely I and all my peers couldn't have been wrong all this time. I sent the article to others in my circle and the ensuing arguments and conversations were unreal. But no one could refute the points raised in the essay except to call Mr. McCann and your site all sorts of vile names.

posted October 31, 2010 02:53 PM         

a monarchy is only as good for the people as its king is dedicated to service

a capitalist country is only as good for people as the beneficence of its capitalists

and a socialist country is only as good as its leaders too

so how is it the FORM of socialism that destroys countries, jwhop? is not the borrowing you say ruins them a CAPITALIST invention and practice? are the banks not capitalizing on those loans?

so when you peel back the veneer, it is corruption and greed in the hands of those who HOLD THE MONEY that is the real problem. not socialism per se, or even capitalism.

unbridled either one leads to default and ruin. but then a king who spends all his country's money conquering more and more lands creates the same collapse.

once again i suggest you visit somalia where the government is not intervening in anyone's lifestyle. but i suspect the pirate and bucanneer in you is retired and not up to the challenge.

on one hand you decry govt intervention, on the other you want medicare untouched. you hate socialism and democracy but it's okay with you, apparently, for the very richest - many of whom INHERITED their money and position which enabled them to make a killing in previous recessions and thereby add to THEIR value (not yours) - to decide, on the basis of their profit margin, what we can and can't eat, drink, build, own and play with. where is the freedom in the "free" market? how does a thalidomide baby collect from the drug companies except by government established courts and laws? you think his pocketbook can bring them down and that it will give him a longer stronger life if they go down?

the fact is the last 10 years saw more jobs shipped overseas (and their corps. rewarded for shipping them) than any other era in our history.

the chinese, the norwegians, the aussies, the germans, the japanese even, are doing just fine under "socialism"...norway actually has the highest per capita in the world AGAIN this year. they have capitalism AND socialism.

in fact the two check and balance each other. corruption will destroy both and has done in many cases, but it is the unscrupulous LENDERS who landed us in this one, all the while taking their money OUT of the country despite HUGE concessions to the uppermost classes.

posted October 31, 2010 03:51 PM         

It's not that Socialism is corrupted.

It's that Socialism is corrupt.

Pire, I don't know what you know about American politics, our economic system or our Government.

Socialists have been in control of the US congress since the elections of 2006 and the White House since the election of 2008.

In that short time, they've run up $5 Trillion in debt. The $350 Billion in annual budget deficits these Socialists whined, moaned, screeched, howled, screamed and shrieked about under Bush have ballooned to $1.3 Trillion a year under this Socialist Congress and our Marxist Socialist Progressive O'Bomber.

At every opportunity to expand the private sector economy...which produces more tax revenues and lowers budget deficits, they instead spent huge sums on putting government employees on the payroll and bailing out State, County and City governments and their employee unions...mostly run by Socialist demoscats.

That's the best answer to your question:

"but how do you explain the debt for the US, a capitalist country?"

There's more however.

There's nothing wrong with debt per se...so long as that debt doesn't get out of whack with the Gross National Product. A large GDP can carry more debt and the interest which has to be paid against that debt.

But, it's insanity when the National Debt equals the GDP as it does now under the Socialist Congress and the Marxist Socialist O'Bomber.

Our GDP is about $14 Trillion and our National Debt is $13.8 Trillion. That's an unsustainable ratio which cannot continue.

Our midterm elections in 2 days are all about changing the spending habits of our Socialist Congress and our Marxist Socialist Prez.

posted November 01, 2010 11:46 AM         

Don't attempt to change what you said katatonic.

quote:

---

in other words it is not socialism but CORRUPTION OF socialism that is the problem....katatonic

---

I won't change what I said.

"It's not that Socialism is corrupted.

posted November 01, 2010 12:23 PM         

------------------------------------------

a monarchy is only as good for the people as its king is dedicated to service

a capitalist country is only as good for people as the beneficence of its capitalists

and a socialist country is only as good as its leaders too

posted November 01, 2010 02:11 PM         

anyone can drop a bomb and walk away. terrorists and insurgents do it all the time.

debate requires thought, original is best, and discussion of said thoughts.

posted November 01, 2010 06:29 PM         

quote:

---

a monarchy is only as good for the people as its king is dedicated to service

a capitalist country is only as good for people as the beneficence of its capitalists

and a socialist country is only as good as its leaders too...katatonic

---

The US is a constitutional republic katatonic...not a Monarchy. We have no Kings, in fact, titles of nobility are prohibited by the Constitution.

Neither are we a government by capitalists katatonic. We're a nation and government of laws with the US Constitution being the highest law in the land.

Socialism is incompatable with the US Constitution and an unlawful form of government for the United States....besides being a fraud, sham and utterly corrupt.

posted November 01, 2010 07:21 PM         

quote:

---

anyone can drop a bomb and walk away. terrorists and insurgents do it all the time.

---

Yep, very telling, yes?

------------------
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 01, 2010 10:13 PM         

the bush administration commanded the $700 billion bailout money as you may recall, so i don't know where a $350 billion deficit comes into the picture either.

in fact when obama came into office the figures i heard were BUSH DEFICIT 1.4 trillion. and OBAMA DEFICIT DOWN TO 1.3 trillion.

i don't like the mandate either but everyone here seems to think negotiating a bill like this was going to be straightforward, with all the business interests just swallowing it? as i've said, go ahead and repeal it. i suspect that was the original plan...

but if anyone thinks it is the socialism that has brought europe down they are kidding themselves. it is the deconstruction and destruction of the social structures, selling them off for profit-making enterprises that has hobbled those countries. and it is about to happen here if people continue to think only of their own self-enrichment.

yes let's privatize social security, in other words, let the crooks who sold all those bum mortgages FOR THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL ENRICHMENT take care of your retirement fund. great.

i could say more but it's been a long day and i'm tired of talking to deaf people.

but the opening post, inflammatory as it was, was only discussing the way we, the us, and other countries too, use our muscle and military and money to do what we like around the world. why is our deciding who should run guatemala, for instance, or iraq, or afghanistan, or any of a large number of SOVEREIGN STATES outside our own, any more legitimate than blowing up a building - here or anywhere else?