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Author Topic:   Should The Government Intervene And Lower Gas Prices?
juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted March 28, 2011 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Those least able to absorb the rising costs of everything they buy...including food.

Which, of course, will raise the cost of food. A never ending domino effect


------------------
~The Earth Laughs In Flowers~
... Emerson

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AcousticGod
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posted March 28, 2011 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The article has not been found to be factually wrong. As such, I don't find a declaration to the contrary to cut the mustard.

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jwhop
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posted March 29, 2011 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At the end of the day, the only conclusions which can be supported by reasonable people are those which stood the test of time.

There are many people who make their livings from delivering papers and/or analysis on various subjects most of them absolutely wrong. For instance on the subject of what is causing oil and gasoline prices to skyrocket, opinions abound and many contradict each other. For some of these pundits, it's all about politics and protecting O'Bomber from criticism from the results of his disastrous policies and especially his so called energy policy.

Fact check is one of those who still drool at the mention of O'Bomber's name. As the political arm of the St. Petersburg Times which endorsed Bomber and gave him millions in free political advertising in the form of favorable articles, no reasonable person should accept a word they say as being anywhere near the truth.

The fact is that markets react predictably to news and the oil markets are no different. Supply and demand drive market prices within an arena where the hope for gain and the fear of loss are active players in the minds of producers and commodity brokers.

So, when I said..years ago..that when it appeared to oil producers and brokers that America was serious about producing more of our own oil to power our economy, oil prices would fall.

Bush lifted the offshore drilling moratorium and crude prices fell from $149 per barrel to $34.

Oil producers had been attempting to control oil supplies by restricting their production to drive up crude oil prices. Oil brokers had been bidding up oil futures prices and making wild predictions of $200 per barrel crude. These are examples of the "hope for gain".

But then, Bush said Drill and the fear of loss set in immediately.

Did oil producers want to see their largest customer in the world cut back on purchases of their product. Hell no. As had happened in the past when it appeared America would get serious about cutting dependency on foreign produced oil, they increased production to create more supply which lowers prices. Perhaps America would change it's mind...as we had in the past.

Brokers had been bidding up the price of crude oil in "future contracts" which they bought. A drop in crude oil prices would be a financial disaster for them. They did the logical thing and began selling off their future contracts at ever lower prices. The reason they did is simple. On a day certain..in the future...they were going to have to take delivery of 1000 barrels of crude oil per futures contract...at the high price stipulated in their contracts. Imagine the loss on contracts they bought at $120-$130-$140 per barrel when crude prices fall out of the sky to well below what they were going to have to pay on the day of contract settlement! Not only that, but who are they going to sell all that high priced oil to when the market price is...say $50 per barrel...and it went lower than that...all the way down to $34 per barrel.

That's a very BIG fear of loss.

So, the only conclusion worth noting is that which proved to be true and stood the test of time. What I said would happen..DID happen.

But now, O'Bomber has reversed Bush policy. Now, oil producers and brokers know O'Bomber is actively blocking American oil production..saying NO to American production. It's enough to warm the hearts of foreign oil producers and brokers.

The result is again, predictable.

Skyrocketing crude oil and gasoline prices thanks to Barack Hussein O'Bomber.

How do you think Americans are going to react to $4-$5-$6 or $7 per gallon gasoline when they find out America has more oil, natural gas, coal and oil shale from which to produce gasoline and electricity than most of the rest of the world...combined!

I would say...Buckle your chin straps O'Bomber and Socialist demoscats who have resisted every attempt to make America energy independent. You're in for a bumpy ride.

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katatonic
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posted March 29, 2011 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so, then, why are prices going up when the moratorium has been lifted and new drilling is set to go ahead with no more constraint than was on BP? certainly not libya - which accounts for a miniscule amount of oil supplies - so WHAT?

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jwhop
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posted March 31, 2011 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gas prices ARE going up because the lifting of the drilling moratorium is all smoke and mirrors with no substance.

The O'Bomber administration is blocking oil companies ability to drill by refusing to issue "permits".

So, O'Bomber can lie through his teeth all he wants but the reality is that a de-facto drilling moratorium is still in effect.

Further, high gas prices are right in line with O'Bomber's disastrous energy policy. So is the hiring of O'Bomber's Chief Energy Adviser, Steven Chu. Steven Chu has said American gas prices need to rise to the level of European gas prices.

In most European nations, the price of gasoline is about $10 per gallon.

November 2, 2012 cannot come too soon so we can throw these Marxist Socialist economy destroying bums out of office.

Flashback: Obama’s top energy aide advocated for $10-a-gallon gas prices
By Amanda Carey - The Daily Caller Published: 1:05 PM 03/30/2011 | Updated: 12:27 AM 03/31/2011

During a speech in Washington Wednesday on the need to secure the country’s energy security, President Obama told Americans not to worry: “We’ve been down this road before.”

“Remember, it was just three years ago that gas prices topped $4 a gallon,” said Obama. “Working folks haven’t forgotten that. It hit a lot of people pretty hard … So here’s the bottom line – there are no quick fixes.”

The president’s speech comes after weeks of rising oil prices and outrage over the administration’s de facto moratorium on offshore drilling. But while Obama talked about the need to produce more oil domestically to help ease the pain at the pump, his chief energy adviser has a history of advocating for high gas prices, once saying, “coal is my worst nightmare.”

As director of the Lawrence Berkley National Laboratory, Steven Chu, Obama’s secretary at the Department of Energy, said in an interview that gas taxes should slowly be increased over the next 15 years in order to force people to turn to alternative energy sources.

“Somehow, we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to levels in Europe,” said Chu.

In Europe, the price for a gallon of gas consistently hovers around $10 a gallon.

Moreover, as Obama called for increased domestic production, he simultaneously chided the oil industry for sitting on “tens of millions of acres of leases” that are going undeveloped. “We are pushing the oil industry to take advantage of the opportunities they already have,” said Obama.

The president’s rebuke of the industry is based on a report produced Tuesday by the Department of Interior (DOI) that slams oil companies for ignoring current leases and labeled two-thirds of the Gulf of Mexico “inactive.” Some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, however, the report, produced at the president’s request, is misleading in more ways than one as it tries to defend the administration’s energy policies.

“To be blunt, this report flat-out invents the inactive definition used to label two-thirds of Gulf leases as inactive,” said Republican Rep. Doc Hastings, chair of the Natural Resources Committee during a hearing with Director of the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement Michael Bromwich. This definition of inactive doesn’t exist in law or regulation.”

Republican Rep. Fred Upton of Michigan, chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee reacted to the DOI report by saying, “It is not correct for this administration to blame energy producers for our lack of energy production. Abandoned rigs sit idle in the Gulf of Mexico … yet this administration continues to slow-walk or stall entirely the permits needed to jump-start safe domestic promotions.”

Now, critics point to the fact the administration tapped Chu to be energy secretary after advocating high gas prices, and yesterday’s DOI report as proof the administration has no standing when it comes to solving an oil crisis.

“President Obama has no credibility when it comes to energy policy and development of our domestic natural resources,” Tom Borelli of the Free Enterprise Project told The Daily Caller. “Obama’s record shows his administration is openly hostile toward our use of coal, oil and natural gas. Both President Obama and Energy Secretary Chu are delivering on their promises to increase the price of energy.”
http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/30/flashback-obamas-top-energy-aide-advocated-for-10-a-gallon-gas-prices/

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jwhop
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posted May 06, 2011 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Randall; I think the government did intervene and decreed issuance of drilling permits in the Gulf of Mexico and off the east coast...which will lead to drilling and to an increase in the supply of crude oil.

Predictably, crude oil prices fell the most for any day in the past 2 years.

May 06, 2011
Government action to reduce prices at the pump
Bruce Walker

A very simple cause and effect was observable yesterday. The House passed a bill to force the administration to sell offshore drilling permits in the Gulf of Mexico and off the Virginia coast, and the price of oil fell 8.6% in one day, the largest drop in over two years!

Are there any voters out there that want lower gas prices? The Republican House passed the bill, the Democratic President is threatening a veto. Your electoral choice is crystal clear.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/05/government_action_to_reduce_pr.html

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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2011 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i mentioned this over a month ago and you poopoohed it, jwhop. and prices went up even more...

i suspect the fall off in consumption had a little to do with it, and talk of investigations into gouging probably didn't hurt either.

and why should the govt intervene anyway, isn't that socialism?

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jwhop
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posted May 07, 2011 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me remind you katatonic that more than 2 years ago, I predicted crude oil prices would take a tumble when it appeared the US was serious about producing our own supplies of oil.

Bush said Drill...and oil prices went from $149 a barrel to only $34...and rather quickly.

So, if you were talking about it a month ago, I wouldn't have been the one to...poopooh the idea.

O'Bomber has already intervened in the oil markets by taking American supply offline.

The House just passed a bill to put American produced crude back into the mix. That's not intervening in oil markets. O'Bomber did that. The House just corrected the Marxist O'Bomber's boneheaded mistake and the goal was to let free markets of supply and demand rule and not bureaucrats and politicians in Washington.

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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2011 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
without any new drilling we are already producing plenty of oil, so american supply is hardly "offline". as to your poopoohing my suggestion last month just look up a few posts. you claimed that obama wasn't "serious" but trying it on...maybe true, maybe not. if making sure drilling is safe and well-regulated is not being serious, then you may be right. many fail to see it that way!

how many more repetitions of the gulf do we need?

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jwhop
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posted May 07, 2011 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose it's hopeless to get you to understand the concept of "perception" katatonic.

Futures markets, oil futures are forward looking. Contracts expire on a day certain...in the future.

Anything which threatens an oil futures contract holder's position causes a quick reaction.

When the House passed that bill to force O'Bomber to issue drilling permits for the Gulf and east coast, that action threatened all futures contract holders positions which were betting on higher oil prices. Their reaction was swift indeed and they started a sell off which drove the price down more than $8 per barrel in a single day.

We are most certainly not drilling enough oil wells, developing enough oil fields or extracting enough oil to supply anywhere near what we need. More than 60% of the oil we use comes from foreign suppliers.

So, your statement..."without any new drilling we are already producing plenty of oil"...fails to impress me because it's certifibly untrue.

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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2011 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i don't have comprehension problems jwhop. just a different viewpoint.

as we well know the current House passing anything doesn't amount to codswallop unless one expects the senate and prez to go the same way, which so far has been deemed "unlikely" in most cases. so the "futures" men have no reason, unless they believe they have the senate and/or president in their pockets, to believe that a vote in the house means a done deal.

and seeing as any new drilling will take years to yield competitive supplies, NO reason for such speculations to alter the price of gas next week.

have we switched places? where's your faith in the "free market" dealing with all issues? people sat on their cash at the pumps in anger/despair/rebellion...the government didn't have to do a thing.

or are you all for the government intervening when they do what YOU want them to do?

one way in which this tied in with the futures folk was that it has been speculated that what recovery we have had could nosedive if the price went up too far, and THAT also would affect sales now and into the future...again, free market doing its thing.

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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2011 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
perhaps the sunshine state hasn't caught up with the "left coast" where you can now get solar installed with no money down and cut your monthly fuel bills even while paying for said installation..

or vermont where people also live completely off the grid and use no oil for their home energy needs..

you've been sold a crock by the oil companies that there are no alternatives, my man, but do hug it as long as you can. meanwhile THEY (the oil companies) are investing in "clean" "renewable" energy...

and the order signed by gw bush to make incandescent lightbulbs "contraband" is on its way into effect too. stalinistas!

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jwhop
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posted May 07, 2011 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Solar will not approach a payback over the life of the units. Further, the sun don't shine at night...even in Florida.

Additionally, why in the hell would I expect Joe and Sally Blow to help pay for my solar array through subsidies and rebates?

There are no alternatives for oil, natural gas and coal. Nothing on the near or far horizon that's anywhere near competitive. Anyone who's pushing the alternative energy twaddle is just full of it....as about a trillion dollars down the toilet of wind and solar energy power research attest.

The United States is the number one nation on earth in energy resources. Second place is way, way, way back.

When Americans realize that fact...and it is a fact, O'Bomber and his nutty professors from the ivory towers of academia are going to be in for a very rough ride.

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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2011 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
then why oh why are the energy companies so hot on solar and other alternatives? you know, little guys like GE, Exxon, etc?

and, if you don't like solar much, i heard recently about new technology that reflects human body heat back into a room without any batteries or fuel at all...in norway, where the sun don't shine even in daytime in winter!

you don't need the sunshine to be ON like a lightswitch to get energy from it, i'm sure you know that, miz melly!

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jwhop
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posted May 09, 2011 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some companies are hot for Solar and/or Wind energy production because the US government is paying them huge amounts of money to be "interested".

In other words, the federal government is subsidizing their operations at taxpayer expense and...it's taxpayer money down the rat hole of crackpot ambitions. The crackpots being O'Bomber, his so called "Science Czar", "Energy Czar, crackpots in the Congress and crackpots in the so called environmental movement...the "greens".

The federal government is also paying farmers a subsidy to grow corn for ethanol production and paying oil companies to blend their gasoline with ethanol. Meanwhile, they're skyrocketing the price of corn, wheat, rice, beef, pork, chicken...and, as a consequence, driving the poorest in the world into virtual starvation, because they can't afford their basic foodstuffs.

Nice going!

Another thing.

Many Americans are not going to be able to pay their electric bills when this high priced electricity produced from Solar and Wind comes online. It's totally uncompetitive when compared to oil, natural gas, hydroelectric, nuclear and coal.

Of course, O'Bomber promised to skyrocket electricity costs.

Here, watch O'Bomber in action...just so you can't say...O'Bomber never said that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

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katatonic
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posted May 09, 2011 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so subsidies for oil are fine, but for solar they are a commie plot. i get it now, thanks.

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katatonic
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posted May 11, 2011 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well, after the news that speculators were at least a big part of what was pushing the price of oil up, this article shows what happens when the price goes down
http://money.msn.com/market-news/post.aspx?post=e79a83b1-0e6a-4444-b108-2dbe2723e7d0>1=33002

and after a couple of days where the price fell by about a nickel a gallon (after shooting up at least ten times that much in a couple of months!) it is now going up again!

because

with the flooding mississippi heading towards several refineries they are covering their butts even before "disaster" strikes production capabilities.

again, the AMOUNT OF DRILLING is not really the problem, is it?

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katatonic
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posted May 11, 2011 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and if you were not convinced that the market is full of crooks, the fact that it is depressed by the conviction of a big hedge fund manager for fraud might just convince you.

not saying everyone in the stockmarket is a crook, so please don't get defensive anyone. i had a lifelong family friend on wall street and his son is now following in his footsteps.

however an honest market would be cheered by the ferreting out of its criminal practitioners, not depressed..

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