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Author Topic:   Who Would Be A Tea Party Member?
Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 07, 2011 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In Theory--do you agree with the Tea Party?
Would you be a member in theory even if you did not go to actual meetings.
I would

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Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 08, 2011 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who would be a Tea Party member?

Anyone who believes in America, believes in the concepts contained in the US Constitution, Declaration of Independence and Preamble to the Constitution, believes in small frugal less intrusive government and believes in individual liberty and freedom.

That would exclude "Most" accidental Americans.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 08, 2011 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am heartened by the Tea Parties.We still have freedom even though at times I despaired of it.

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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katatonic
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posted July 08, 2011 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
great michelle bachmann quote for you heard on the radio today.

she was asked by the interviewer if she thought unemployment going UP would increase her chances of winning in 2012 to which she replied

"well, one would suppose, i HOPE so". this is one of your "tea party" congresspeople currently SUPPOSEDLY trying to help the job situation? puleez...more like a gaffe a mile wide exposing what the republican house is all about and HAS BEEN about since 08 (and yes, jwhop, i know the dems were in the majority then but the tactics haven't changed much have they?)

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 08, 2011 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
great michelle bachmann quote for you heard on the radio today.

she was asked by the interviewer if she thought unemployment going UP would increase her chances of winning in 2012 to which she replied

"well, one would suppose, i HOPE so". this is one of your "tea party" congresspeople currently SUPPOSEDLY trying to help the job situation? puleez...more like a gaffe a mile wide exposing what the republican house is all about and HAS BEEN about since 08 (and yes, jwhop, i know the dems were in the majority then but the tactics haven't changed much have they?)


Why don't YOU live to the same standard of verbal acuity you demand of others, Darlink

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted July 09, 2011 02:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you know kat, I really, REALLY like your take on politics (sorry repubs)

You take a lot of flak for your views and you're usually a good sport about it and I just wanted to say,
I like your style.

Michelle Bachmann, is she who personifies the Tea Party?
Because if she is YUCK!
Did you know she wants to ban Gay Marriage?
how many steps do we have to take backwards before we (USA) can move forward and get it right?

I can not even begin to warm up to any candidate who is so narrow minded.

My idea of a good candidate would be one with progressive (and slightly Liberal) views.

and for the sake of Peace, I will keep that to myself

Jwhop

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juniperb
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posted July 09, 2011 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I stand back and scratch my head over Michelle Bachmann as well lalalinda.
I don`t "think" she personifies the Tea Party but is rather like another flavor of the month

Ron Paul all the way

How`s the desert bloomin` in July?

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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katatonic
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posted July 09, 2011 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my bad, she did not say "i suppose so" she said "that could be, I HOPE SO" i was actually coming back here to correct that, but you beat me to it, ami!

but - is that what you meant? sometimes in the course of a busy day a few words in what i heard get muddled. however, her basic agreement and HOPE that the worse the economy, the better her chances, were the point of the quote. the "i HOPE so" was what stuck in my mind, and still is the relevant part of her answer...

so did you also hear it and you were objecting to my paraphrasing "that could be" with "i suppose so"? or would you care to explain your little dig so it is obvious what you meant, speaking of verbal acuity?

and thanks, lala, i realize that sometimes i come on a bit more on the dem side than i really am...i believe they could be doing a lot better and esp taking a lot more care about how bills are written...in other words i think the baby is thrown out with the bathwater by both sides, not just the "opposition". however i would never have said anything either if the conservatives did not try so extremely to smear and propagandize against the duly elected administration. so in that way at least, i have a lot in common with jwhop, except i try NOT to become what i see as destructive.

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lalalinda
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posted July 09, 2011 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The desert is beautiful right now Ms Juni.

We are having the strangest weather though.

How's your garden? Gorgeous?

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted July 09, 2011 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed lala ! The weather is wild all over. I understand the petunias in some parts pooped out all ready and mine are popping

Garden is in full bloom and veggies begging to be picked.

Cheers to summer and the wild ride off into 2012, a new president, and come what may!

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 09, 2011 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lalalinda:
you know kat, I really, REALLY like your take on politics (sorry repubs)

You take a lot of flak for your views and you're usually a good sport about it and I just wanted to say,
I like your style.

Michelle Bachmann, is she who personifies the Tea Party?
Because if she is YUCK!
Did you know she wants to ban Gay Marriage?
how many steps do we have to take backwards before we (USA) can move forward and get it right?

I can not even begin to warm up to any candidate who is so narrow minded.

My idea of a good candidate would be one with progressive (and slightly Liberal) views.

and for the sake of Peace, I will keep that to myself

Jwhop


Lala can teach us how to disagree without being disagreeable, Ladies.
Smooches to Everyone including Nodie

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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katatonic
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posted July 09, 2011 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
still wondering what you meant by verbal acuity, ami...?

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 09, 2011 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
still wondering what you meant by verbal acuity, ami...?

too tired to get in to it now Darlink. I will tease you

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 09, 2011 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I learned my manners and courtesy from my Mama and lalalinda simply reinforces the love, grace and respect we are to have for our kindreds ie all of humanity

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 09, 2011 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well Handsome is as handsome does

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 10, 2011 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
more on Michele Bachmann

Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann has caused outrage after signing a controversial marriage pact that suggests black families were better off in times of slavery.
Bachmann, along with fellow GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum, signed two-page document, The Marriage Vow - A Declaration of Dependence Upon Marriage and Family, last week.
It condemns gay marriage, abortion, infidelity and pornography but by far the most controversial paragraph was on slavery.

'Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA's first African-American President,' the document read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013089/Michele-Bachmann-signed-marriage-pact-suggesting-black-families-better-slavery.html

p.s. Tea Party? It should be the Kool-Aid Party.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 10, 2011 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kool Aid Party

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
Be as wise as a serpents,gentle as doves.

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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katatonic
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posted July 10, 2011 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
its a gaffe a line with bachmann, to paraphrase someone now dead...

but the real gaffe is not even how loosely informed she seems to be about black families under slavery, who were often separated from their families by their owner. and if they were ALLOWED to marry at all it was because their owner granted it. when they were freed many former slaves rushed to get married, because as slaves they did not have normal HUMAN rights like that of marriage.

and the stereotype picture of the black single welfare mom is just that. there are more middle class and professional blacks than many whites seem to know. and even in the welfare class, black families are at least as likely to stay together as white ones...

the official story is that bachmann had no idea that this statement was part of what she signed. can't refrain from asking...is this document as long as a congressional bill?

but if you look closely, the statement may be truer than it seems at first...it says a child born into slavery in 1860 ie a short time before the abolition of slavery, at which time droves of newly entitled blacks got married. so though it seems that is not what was intended, i guess they were right enough, with hindsight.

let's not forget that the GENERAL POPULATION has a very poor record when it comes to STAYING married, present company included and i don't just mean myself!

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted July 10, 2011 06:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have often wondered if Ms Bachmann and I`ll throw in Joe Biden, were just gaffe a minute for attention. Were they neglected children....
It is very difficult to believe they were put in such a place of trust and honor based on knowledge much less charm..

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 10, 2011 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, party aside, it must be horrible being a politician.EVERY word is scrutinized with a fine tooth comb.
Then we wonder why they are such mannequins

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
Be as wise as a serpents,gentle as doves.

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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katatonic
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posted July 10, 2011 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i would agree, ami, when the foot in mouth is a flub, like the "57 states" obviously was. but when someone says "i HOPE so" to a question about a worsening economy helping them to win an election, it doesn't take a mannequin to understand there's a conflict of interests there.

no i think they should be MORE honest. then a) people might learn to understand those who think differently than they and b) we might actually get to know who these guys are. but Politics is all about saying what it takes to get the deal done...by definition that does not include admitting that the more people lose their jobs the more likely michele bachmann will have a shot at the presidency. refreshingly honest, i'd say, but reprehensible and unlikely to get her any big upswing in votes.

and i have to agree, being a politician is not a job i would want. not because of the scrutiny, but the dirty tricks inherent in the environment in washington. i shoot my mouth off far too often. even office politics make me sick.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 10, 2011 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
i shoot my mouth off far too often.

Cannot see you in politics Kat

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
Be as wise as a serpents,gentle as doves.

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted July 10, 2011 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nah, one doesn`t need a fine toothed comb for Biden or Bachmann... it`s all out there

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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katatonic
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posted July 10, 2011 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
fer sure juni!

no worries, ami, i enjoy being able to choose with whom i associate way too much..

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jwhop
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posted July 11, 2011 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is as it should be!

The federal government has increased federal spending 24% in only 2 years under O'Bomber and the tax and spend demoscat Socialist Progressive comrades in Congress.

Forty two..42 cents out of every federal dollar spent by O'Bomber and the Socialist comrades in congress was borrowed and added to the now 14.8 TRILLION dollar national debt.

The GDP..Gross National Product of the United States is about $14T. The GDP is the sum total value of all economic activity in the United States for a year.

If everyone went to work as usual for a year and worked for free...no compensation whatsoever, if every supplier of goods and services in America received nothing whatsoever for their goods, services and personal activities and instead donated every penny to the federal government..it wouldn't pay off the federal national debt.

This is how deep the debt hole is that our "masters of the universe" have dug for Americans.

They were told in no uncertain terms to knock it off last November when many of them were sent home from Washington and conservatives were elected to the majority in the House of Representatives.

Still, O'Bomber and his Socialist comrades in congress haven't gotten the word. O'Bomber and his comrades are trying yet again to not only raise the national debt limit but raise income taxes as well.

We will see if those newly elected Republicans and some who are fixtures in the Republican House and Senate heard the word from voters. If not, there are elections on November 2, 2012 and voters can continue to change out congressional members...and Presidents until the word is both heard and understood.

"CAN YOU HEAR US NOW"?

Angry Tea Party Stirring up GOP Revolt
Saturday, 09 Jul 2011 01:00 PM
By David A. Patten

A significant faction of the tea party movement is prepared to revolt against any GOP deal to raise the debt ceiling – even if it is “revenue neutral” and cuts trillions from federal spending, grass-roots sources tell Newsmax.

For the most part, tea party leaders have coalesced around the “cut, cap, and balance” approach to raising the debt ceiling: Trillions in real spending cuts, a cap on how much federal spending can consume as a percent of GDP, and, ultimately, a balanced budget amendment that would prevent the federal government from running up future deficits.

But the fractious tea party movement actually consists of thousands of loosely affiliated groups. They generally support constitutionally limited government, but don’t always agree on specific policies. And they are by no means united on whether the debt ceiling should be raised at all.

The leaders of at least one major tea party organization, Tea Party Patriots, are adamantly opposed to any deal to raise the debt ceiling, under virtually any circumstances. Doing so, they say, only invites more deficit spending.

Some analysts call such fiscal hawks “debt-ceiling absolutists.” The absolutists say Uncle Sam must go cold turkey and swear off the spending binge that has saddled America with over $14.3 trillion in national debt. But labels aside, their influence within the GOP caucus is substantial.

“It’s a hard sell for [House Speaker John] Boehner,” Ryan Ellis, director of tax policy for Americans for Tax Reform, tells Newsmax. “Because the people that he’s having trouble rounding up, and that he had trouble rounding up for the CR [continuing resolution passed in April], are people who are just inherently skeptical of Republican authority in D.C. – and for good reason.”

Although most of the major grass-roots organizations, including Tea Party Express, FreedomWorks, Grassfire.org, and others have coalesced around the cut, cap, and balance approach, it is by no means clear that they have the support of the majority of their own members when it comes to raising the debt ceiling.

A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found that more than 80 percent of self-identified tea party supporters oppose raising the debt ceiling. Even Democrats only favored increasing the debt ceiling by 49 percent to 45 percent. Independents also opposed increasing the debt ceiling, by a whopping 71 percent to 24 percent margin.

Several such polls suggest the Republican leadership has failed to win the confidence of its grass-roots conservative base. In fact, several recent GOP moves have probably eroded the tea parties’ trust in the GOP leadership.

The “secret” powwow held Sunday between Boehner and President Barack Obama administration, as reported by The New York Times, has left some tea party leaders more skeptical that the ultimate deal will be palatable.

“Somehow super-secret, double-secret handshake meetings in back rooms on the weekend when nobody’s watching don’t seem to me to meet any standard of transparency for any human being that I’ve ever met,” Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler tells Newsmax.

“Why aren’t these negotiations open to the American public?” demanded Meckler, who is always careful to stipulate that he doesn’t speak for all of his members. “Why are we not allowed to know how, and for what, they’re trading away our children’s future?”

Boehner spokesman Michael Steel tells Newsmax, “The speaker has made it clear that the American people will not tolerate – and the House will not pass – a debt-limit increase without spending cuts greater than the increase, and reforms that will bring down future spending. The only thing off the table is tax hikes, because tax hikes destroy jobs.”

The Republican Party’s relationship with its tea party base took another hit Wednesday when GOP Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Arizona, stated Republicans had put some $200 billion in new revenues on the table, in a good-faith effort to work out a deal with the White House.

Although Kyl said those revenues would be gathered through land sales and increased fees rather than higher taxes, his statement has triggered substantial angst on the right.

Ryan Hecker, the tea party leader who created the Contract From America document that served as the tea party’s manifesto in the 2010 midterms, blasted Kyl Thursday in an e-mail to Newsmax.

“I am dismayed that Republicans like Kyl continue to use doublespeak in an attempt to once again trick and fleece the American people,” Hecker wrote. “Calls to implement ‘user fees’ and close ‘tax loopholes’ are simply sly ways of calling for tax increases,” he added.

The escalating discontent on the right comes in the context of the April deal brokered by Obama and Boehner. ATR’s Ellis tells Newsmax that tea party members feel they “got played” in the continuing resolution negotiation.

Initially, the deal purported to shave $38 billion from federal spending. But a subsequent CBO analysis found it actually cut just $352 million for current-year spending. Then came the killer: When emergency military spending was included, the CBO found that federal spending would actually increase $3.3 billion above last year’s level.

Although Boehner’s staff defended the future savings that the compromise is projected to bring, it now appears the deal in April may make it much more difficult politically to get grass-roots buy-in on a grand bargain to elevate the debt ceiling. It proved so controversial that 59 House Republicans broke ranks and voted against the deal.

This time, some observers warn, the defections could be even worse. If Boehner has to rely heavily on Democratic votes to pass a debt-ceiling compromise, it could weaken his standing within his own caucus.

Some tea party members, meanwhile, complain that the Republican Party seems to have forgotten the lesson of the 2010 midterms.

“It astounds me that Republican leadership continues to operate under the assumption that they won back the House in 2010 because of their good looks and wonderful personalities,” Hecker stated.

“They won because they preached economic conservatism and no tax hikes. They were given a mandate, and yet they continue to operate from a defensive position. This failure of real leadership is why Republicans lost Congress and the presidency in the first place,” he added.

FreedomWorks chief Matt Kibbe has a more nuanced view. As much as he would prefer a more fundamental change in federal governance, he says, the GOP, with control of only one chamber of Congress, just doesn’t have the power it needs to impose its will. That’s why his organization is pushing for the more pragmatic cut, cap, and balance approach.

“The burden on Republicans is that they have to be bold because they don’t have credibility,” says Kibbe. “We don’t trust them to cut a good deal, so they have to stand firm.

“I think the impact of the tea party has been profound in this sense,” he adds. “We’re getting trashed by everyone from David Brooks of The New York Times, to Democrats, for not allowing Republicans to negotiate in good faith.

“Well, this is a spending problem. If you want to fix a spending problem, you’ve got to cut spending. If you want to talk about revenue to fix a spending problem you’re just changing the topic.”

ATR’s Ellis tells Newsmax that every tea party member he’s spoken with is “extremely skeptical” about the wisdom of raising the debt ceiling. To pass muster with the grass, he says, a deal at a minimum must:

Offer real cuts, not ones depending on elaborate accounting formulas involving spending projections and presumed rates of employment that extend beyond a five-year horizon. Both Meckler and Everett Wilkinson, the head of the Florida tea party, tell Newsmax that they simply don’t trust what they call the federal government’s “Enron accounting.”

Be front-loaded with cuts. That means immediate spending reductions mostly occurring within the next few years. Putting off cuts until long after current members of Congress have left Washington just won’t fly. “Of course Obama wants to punt it, to get it off the table until the next election,” says Wilkinson. “And I think largely the Republicans would like to do the same thing. Because I don’t think D.C. understands that the American people have had enough, and they want real cuts.”

Offer enforceable, hard caps on future spending. Once spending exceeds a certain portion of the Gross Domestic Product – perhaps 18.5 percent, compared to the current level of nearly 24 percent – cuts in spending would have to automatically ensue, activists say.

“They want a down payment,” Ellis explains. “They want a significant sign of good faith, and a down payment that these spending cuts are real, and they’re going to be enforceable going forward.”

Of course, there is no guarantee that Democrats would go along with the tea party’s bottom line. But this much is clear: The prospect is very real that any Republican politician who supports a deal unpopular with the GOP’s grass-roots base will pay dearly for it at the polls.

“I think you will see primary challenges to people who might otherwise pose themselves as conservatives based upon these votes,” Meckler told Newsmax, clearly firing a shot across the bow of GOP members.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/TeaParty-DebtLimit-JohnBoehner-RepublicanParty/2011/07/09/id/403013

lalalinda


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