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Author Topic:   Heritage Foundation says the Poor are not Poor
Node
Knowflake

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From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
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posted July 27, 2011 08:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
by dem beans @daily kos....


quote:
Do you worry about Americans living in poverty? Think that perhaps taxes should be raised on the ultra-wealthy in order to help those destroyed by the recession they created?

Do you have any sympathy and empathy for your fellow citizen in trouble?

The Heritage Foundation to the rescue! Today they published a study to show how the poor are actually living' large thanks to their 'amenities'.
.



The study can be found here.

The opening sentence gives one a flavor of the entire piece:

Each year for the past two decades, the U.S. Census Bureau has reported that over 30 million Americans were living in “poverty.” In recent years, the Census has reported that one in seven Americans are poor. But what does it mean to be “poor” in America? How poor are America’s poor?

Isn't it cute how they put poverty and poor in quotation marks? Because, as they're about to prove, the poor aren't poor.

Poor families certainly struggle to make ends meet, but in most cases, they are struggling to pay for air conditioning and the cable TV bill as well as to put food on the table. Their living standards are far different from the images of dire deprivation promoted by activists and the mainstream media.

How dare they have air conditioning, particularly when temperatures around the country now are killing people who are without it!

The Heritage Foundation then gives data on poor households who have such luxuries as a refrigerator, a stove, a ceiling fan, a coffee pot and so on. I have news for the silver-spoon trust funders who work at the HF: even the most wretched slum apartment generally has a refrigerator and a stove. Some might even offer a ceiling fan. The Heritage Foundation apparently won't be happy until we're all living under bridges, although then they'll say we don't have it bad as long as we have a blanket.

Anyway, the Heritage Foundation takes their list of 'amenities' and scores it against poor households. You see, a $10 coffee pot from Dollar General and a $20 television from Goodwill means that you aren't suffering enough for our overlords - you're actually very well off compared to the poor 100 years ago. You can't make this **** up! A coffee pot is actually considered some kind of luxury item to the HF and it's scored against the poor.

So once they've 'proven' that the poor aren't actually poor because their Section 8 housing has a refrigerator, they do make a concession:

Of course, the typical poor family could have a host of modern conveniences and still live in dilapidated, overcrowded housing. However, data from other government surveys show that this is not the case.[19] Poor Americans are well housed and rarely overcrowded.[20] In fact, the houses and apartments of America’s poor are quite spacious by international standards. The typical poor American has considerably more living space than does the average European.[21]

So, they have spacious, comfortable housing and they aren't hungry, either!

On average, the poor are well nourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children. In most cases, it is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than higher-income children consume, and their protein intake averages 100 percent above recommended levels. In fact, most poor children are super-nourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

The entire argument for saying that the poor are livin' large is that in a time of terrible, terrible deficits maybe we're doing too much for them, because "the overwhelming majority of poor households do not experience any form of physical deprivation"...because they have a coffee pot!

I know someone who lives in a broken-down RV in Oklahoma. The plumbing is bad and it doesn't have running water. She has it parked in an RV park that offers cable and Internet for the modest rental fee, and according to the Heritage Foundation she's living a life of luxury, even though she's living in a 25 year old RV without running water.

This is the modern conservative movement in a nutshell.



*$2,238,571 received from Koch foundations 2005-2009 [Total Koch foundation grants 1997-2009: $3,976,571]
The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank with predetermined bias against climate policy.

In 2010, The Heritage Foundation severely misrepresented the Royal Society’s position on climate change, editing out ten pages of a report to make it appear that the scientific authority was uncertain about the occurrence of global warming. The post’s author is a former associate of the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation.

Heritage avidly supports federal approval of the Keystone XL pipeline, which would greatly increase tar sands imports from Canada and directly benefit Koch Industries and other major oil companies as a result.

The Heritage Foundation has also: misinterpreted the impacts of global warming on the US economy; twisted news reports to justify claims about 'climate taxes'; issued deceptive economic analyses and presentations; and released allegations about economic ruin and job losses from green stimulus investments by Congress.

Heritage Foundation also teamed up with Institute for Energy Research (IER) to promote the widely debunked "Spanish" study.


**Read more about the Heritage Foundation
Heritage Foundation on-- ExxonSecrets.org

Heritage Foundation on SourceWatch.org

*** Contributers Koch Industries, an oil supply and refining company, is one of the largest private corporations in the country. Despite being virtually invisible to the public, Koch Industries is a top lobbying spender, a massive funding source to climate-denial front-groups, and major force fighting against clean energy policies. Charles and David Koch, who own and control the corporation, drive the anti-environmental political spending.

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Lonake
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posted July 28, 2011 05:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.wastenotaz.org/
This should be in every state.

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jwhop
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posted July 28, 2011 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How true!

The image of poverty, deprivation, homelessness and starvation screeched about by those living large off the fruits of productive citizens taxes are just that...screeching.

I'm not talking about those receiving food stamps, subsidized housing, free medical, welfare or those who would qualify as poor in the minds of most Americans.

I'm talking about those at the heads of organizations who have never in their lives "fed the poor", "healed the sick", "produced anything or value" or done anything at all...except screech and lobby for US taxpayer money with which to lobby government for more taxpayer money off which they maintain a very nice lifestyle.

The name Jim Wallis, O'Bomber's so called "Spiritual Advisor" comes readily to mind....as do other "Poverty Pimps"...like the Reverrrrrend Sharption and the Reverrrrend Jackson and others who are easily found and identified.

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juniperb
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posted July 28, 2011 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
On average, the poor are well nourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children. In most cases, it is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than higher-income children consume, and their protein intake averages 100 percent above recommended levels. In fact, most poor children are super-nourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

If I could take this single paragraph and apply it to my local communities it becomes hogwash.

More meat? Hamburger is pushing $3 a pound and the average poor family size being six, how much meat do they think they eat along with the cheap carb ridden pasta, potatoes, and cheaper high sodium/empty calorie boxed meatless dinners?

Super nurished? Many are obese and diabetic because their diet consists of cheap carbs and such .


Coffe pot? I own a barn but it isn`t filled with expensive race horses. Maybe the coffee pots are used to heat water because no working hot water tank. Which I noticed is missing from the article. If one has one, are they now middle class/rich?
Get real HF and meet with your poor.

------------------
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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katatonic
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posted July 28, 2011 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a family who eats at macdonalds will be getting protein - but they will not be able to afford fruit, veg, milk and the other things which make for a HEALTHY diet. as i mentioned on another thread, there are a lot of OBESE POOR. this is not because they eat too much but because what they eat is filled with carbs, high fructose corn syrup, and cheap protein ... which may fill you up, and will stop you wasting away, but instead you will die of diabetes, heart failure and other diseases caused by too high proportion protein, refined carbs and sugar. which subdue the hunger pangs and put FAT on the body but do not supply much energy or health.

last i checked the employees of H&HS are not living in the lap of luxury either. they struggle to pay their bills and get the right nutrients for a healthy life just as the poor do!

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katatonic
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posted July 28, 2011 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
while it is true that many of our poor are better off than those in somalia, that doesn't make them rich in the society in which they live! it takes a little cash to GET the deals available.

when i go to safeway and see the fab price of 12 rolls of paper towels, it is useless to me. why? i live alone in a very small place - and i need to spend that money on FOOD. and i am better off than a lot of people. my freezer is not efficient enough to store anything for long. and i am better off than a lot of people! i have no stove (inlaw unit) and i am better off than a lot of people!

and somalia is STILL a great example of what happens in a country without regulations, taxes, and social programs.

(also a good example of western stinginess, in that we are STILL sitting on surpluses that could be saving lives over there)

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katatonic
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posted July 28, 2011 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and the sad fact is that more people than ever live in apartments where they couldn't "grow their own" if they wanted to.

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juniperb
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posted July 28, 2011 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
kat, it sounds like you are as thrilled with that report as I am

------------------
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi

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katatonic
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posted July 29, 2011 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
aye, juni!

i keep inviting the NO subsidies NO regs crowd to go live in somalia, where the results of such policies are blatantly obvious. they can blame the weather for the starvation but between rampant TINY government, weather and disease, the results are in in somalia. pirates, a few people living large and the rest starving TO DEATH because no one can be bothered to organize some HANDOUTS from the surpluses sitting round the world. while PERMANENT handouts would be ridiculous, getting those people to FED and teaching them (omigod ANOTHER social program?) how to deal would not.

but monsanto has a solution...crops that don't need rain because they are so super-modified that they will grow anywhere. so why teach people how to deal when you can SELL THEM SOMETHING? even if studies currently in hint that there might not be any FUTURE generations for those fed on the stuff (since it apparently reduces reproductive capacity in rats, who are genetically quite similar to people)..

and will probably ask the wealthier countries to supply the seeds to somalia so they can make a buck on possible genocide, and definite infiltration of GMOS into the global foodchain...

what's not to love?

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jwhop
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posted July 29, 2011 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"i keep inviting the NO subsidies NO regs crowd to go live in somalia, where the results of such policies are blatantly obvious."...katatonic

I see you're branching off into multiple delusions katatonic.

People are starving in Somalia BECAUSE...there's no regulations and no subsidies!

Yes, we all know Socialist Big Government is the solution to every societal ill.

Just look at the worker's paradises of Cuba, the defunct Soviet Union, Communist China, Communist North Korea, Venezuela.....

Yes, you've convinced us that total government control over eveything, including every decision is the key to solving every problem...including the problem of feeding those who are starving.

That's always been the Socialist wet dream.

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katatonic
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posted July 30, 2011 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sweetie i never said anything about TOTAL regulation. ALL ALONG i have said that a COMBINATION of regulation, social programs and FREE ENTERPRISE are what make MODERN SOCIETIES work. that is not socialism OR communism but a recognition that we are all in this together and when the poorest are thrown out like so much bathwater the rest will suffer...while those with a pot to invest will make out like bandits...rather like what we are seeing RIGHT HERE TODAY.

you know, the soroses of the world walking off with even more cash while everyone else is left to figure out what they will do without medicaid OR money.

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jwhop
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posted July 30, 2011 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Socialist demoscats and the Marxist Socialist Progressive O'Bomber are "Regulating" America to death.

That's the problem with Socialists. They just won't leave other people alone.

When we look at the private sector, there's armies of bureaucrat regulators harassing business, piling regulation upon regulation. Then, the whining Socialists screech when business leaves their city, their county or America itself.

And here's the funniest part. Every penny of cost to comply with Socialist regulations are passed on to consumers in the price of goods and services. Socialists are liars when they say..."we're looking out for the little guys".

Every penny of increased taxes on business is passed on to consumers in the price of goods and services. Socialists are liars when they say..."we're looking out for the little guys".

Socialists are killing the little guys and the businesses they work for...or in the case of the O'Bomber economic debacle..No Longer Work For.

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Node
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posted July 30, 2011 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Small Business Jobs Act:


Extension of Successful SBA Recovery Loan Provisions —Immediately Supporting Loans to Over 1,400 Small Businesses: With funds provided in the bill, SBA will begin funding new Recovery loans within a few days of the President’s signature, starting with the more than 1,400 businesses – with loans totaling more than $730 million – that are waiting in the Recovery Loan Queue. In total, the extension of these provisions provides the capacity to support $14 billion in loans to small businesses. The SBA Recovery loan provisions have already supported $30 billion in lending to over 70,000 small business.
•A More Than Doubling of the Maximum Loan Size for The Largest SBA Programs:The bill also increases the maximum loan size for SBA loan programs, which in the coming weeks will allow more small businesses to access more credit to allow them to expand and create new jobs. The bill will permanently raise the maximum size for SBA’s two largest loan programs, increasing the maximum 7(a) and 504 loans from $2 million to $5 million, and the maximum 504 manufacturing related loan from $4 million to $5.5 million. In addition, it will temporarily increase the maximum loan size for SBA Express loans from $350,000 to $1 million, providing greater access to working capital loans that small businesses use to purchase new inventory and take on their next order – allowing them to create new jobs.
•A New $30 Billion Small Business Lending Fund:The bill would establish a new $30 billion Small Business Lending Fund which – by providing capital to small banks with incentives to increase small business lending – could support several multiples of that amount in new credit.
•An Initiative to Strengthen Innovative State Small Business Programs – Supporting Over $15 Billion in Lending:The bill will support at least $15 billion in small business lending through a new State Small Business Credit Initiative, strengthening state small business programs that leverage private-sector lenders to extend additional credit – many of which have been forced to cut back due to budget cuts.
•Eight New Small Business Tax Cuts – Effective Today, Providing Immediate Incentives to Invest: The President had already signed into law eight small business tax cuts, and on Monday, he is signing into law another eight new tax cuts that go into effect immediately. ◦Zero Taxes on Capital Gains from Key Small Business Investments:Under the Recovery Act, 75 percent of capital gains on key small business investments this year were excluded from taxes. The Small Business Jobs Act temporarily puts in place for the rest of 2010 a provision called for by the President – elimination of all capital gains taxes on these investments if held for five years. Over one million small businesses are eligible to receive investments this year that, if held for five years or longer, could be completely excluded from any capital gains taxation.
◦ Extension and Expansion of Small Businesses’ Ability to Immediately Expense Capital Investments: The bill increases for 2010 and 2011 the amount of investments that businesses would be eligible to immediately write off to $500,000, while raising the level of investments at which the write-off phases out to $2 million. Prior to the passage of the bill, the expensing limit would have been $250,000 this year, and only $25,000 next year. This provision means that 4.5 million small businesses and individuals will be able to make new business investments today and know that they will earn a larger break on their taxes for this year.
◦Extension of 50% Bonus Depreciation: The bill extends – as the President proposed in his budget – a Recovery Act provision for 50 percent “bonus depreciation” through 2010, providing 2 million businesses, large and small, with the ability to make new investments today and know they can receive a tax cut for this year by accelerating the rate at which they deduct capital expenditures.
◦ A New Deduction of Health Insurance Costs for Self-Employed:The bill allows 2 million self-employed to know that on their taxes for this year, they can get a deduction for the cost of health insurance for themselves and their family members in calculating their self-employment taxes. This provision is estimated to provide over $1.9 billion in tax cuts for these entrepreneurs.
◦Tax Relief and Simplification for Cell Phone Deductions:The bill changes rules so that the use of cell phones can be deducted without burdensome extra documentation – making it easier for virtually every small business in America to receive deductions that they are entitled to, beginning on their taxes for this year.
◦ An Increase in the Deduction for Entrepreneurs’ Start-Up Expenses:The bill temporarily increases the amount of start-up expenditures entrepreneurs can deduct from their taxes for this year from $5,000 to $10,000 (with a phase-out threshold of $60,000 in expenditures), offering an immediate incentive for someone with a new business idea to invest in starting up a new small business today.
◦A Five-Year Carryback Of General Business Credits:The bill would allow certain small businesses to “carry back” their general business credits to offset five years of taxes – providing them with a break on their taxes for this year – while also allowing these credits to offset the Alternative Minimum Tax, reducing taxes for these small businesses.
◦Limitations on Penalties for Errors in Tax Reporting That Disproportionately Affect Small Business:The bill would change, beginning this year, the penalty for failing to report certain tax transactions from a fixed dollar amount – which was criticized for imposing a disproportionately large penalty on small businesses in certain circumstances – to a percentage of the tax benefits from the transaction.

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jwhop
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posted July 30, 2011 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All of this was supposed to have happened in 2009.

But, O'Bomber spent all the Stimulus bill money bailing out his union pals and other leftist groups.

I recall all that talk about "shovel ready projects" just waiting for funding.

Never happened, contracts were not let, people were not employed and the whole Stimulus bill was a sham which turned into a spending spree for demoscats.

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Node
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posted August 01, 2011 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I repeat:


Small Business Jobs Act of 2010


On Sept. 27, 2010, President Obama signed into law the Small Business Jobs Act, the most significant piece of small business legislation in over a decade. The new law is providing critical resources to help small businesses continue to drive economic recovery and create jobs. The new law extended the successful SBA enhanced loan provisions while offering billions more in lending support, tax cuts, and other opportunities for entrepreneurs and small business owners.

New Law Puts More Capital in the Hands of Entrepreneurs and Small Business Owners

SBA Enhanced Loan Provisions – more than $12 billion in lending support

SBA loan provisions, with the 90% guarantee and reduced fees, were extended through 2010. The $505 million in subsidy for Jobs Act loans supported more than $12 billion in overall small business lending.


According to self-reported data, a significant share of Jobs Act loans went to rural (22%), minority-owned (21%), women-owned (16%) and veteran-owned (7%) businesses.


Higher Loan Limits – increased maximum loan sizes in top loan programs

The law permanently increased 7(a) and 504 limits from $2 million to $5 million (for manufacturers in 504 loan program, up to $5.5 million).


The law permanently increased microloan limits from $35,000 to $50,000, helping more entrepreneurs with start-up costs and small business owners in underserved communities.


The law temporarily increased the maximum amount of quick-turnaround SBA Express loans from $350,000 to $1 million (expires 9/27/2011).


Alternate Size Standards – more small businesses eligible to get SBA loans

The law expanded the number of small businesses eligible for SBA loans by increasing the alternate size standard to those with less than $15 million in net worth and $5 million in average net income.


Temporarily Allow for Commercial Real Estate Refinancing

Beginning in spring 2011, the law will allow some small businesses to refinance their owner-occupied commercial real estate mortgages into the 504 loan program (expires 9/27/2012).


Dealer Floor Plan (DFP) Pilot Program

Building on the agency’s previous DFP pilot program, the new pilot will expand financing opportunities for small businesses that sell cars, RVs, boats, other titleable inventory (target rollout first quarter of 2011, effective through 2013).


Small Business “Intermediary” Lending Pilot

The law provides for funding up to $20 million per year over the next three years for a pilot program that leverages local nonprofit organizations and other organizations that help small businesses that need loans up to $200,000 (target rollout mid-2011).


New Law Strengthens Small Businesses’ Ability to Compete for and Win Contracts, Including Implementing Recommendations from the President’s Task Force on Federal Contracting Opportunities for Small Business

Equal Treatment across Federal Contracting Programs

The law reaffirmed “parity” among federal small-business contracting programs. When awarding contracts that are set-aside for small businesses, contracting officers are free to choose among businesses owned by women and service-disabled veterans, as well as businesses participating in HUBZone and 8(a) programs.


More Opportunities for Small Businesses

The law eliminates the “Competitiveness Demonstration” program, which limited opportunities for small contractors in 11 industries where they excel, such as construction, landscaping and pest control. This will build on the $24 billion small businesses won in these industries in Fiscal Year 2009 (effective January 31, 2011).


The law gives contracting officers the ability to reserve orders for small business participation on contracts with multiple awards including the Federal Supply Schedule (GSA Multiple Award Schedule). The law makes it harder for agencies to “bundle” contracts, a practice that makes it more difficult for small businesses to compete.


Combating Fraud, Waste and Abuse

The law establishes a legal standing of “presumption of loss” when a business misrepresents its ownership status or size in winning a government contract. This allows a federal agency to claim a loss on the purchase, enabling those agencies, including the Department of Justice, to vigorously pursue fraudulent firms.


The law holds large prime contractors more accountable to their own subcontracting plans by requiring written justification when plans aren’t met and when small business subcontractors aren’t paid on time. This helps eliminate “bait-and-switch” tactics that occur when large primes – after winning the prime contract – don’t follow through with their own plans to give subcontracts to small businesses.


New Law Promotes Small Business Exporting, Building on the President’s National Export Initiative

Higher Loan Limits – increased maximum size of top export loan program

The law permanently increased the maximum size of 7(a) International Trade Loans and Export Working Capital Loans to $5 million.


Export Express Pilot Becomes Permanent

The law turned the Export Express pilot loan program into a permanent program with 90% guarantees for loans up to $350,000 and 75% for loans between $350,000 and $500,000.


State Trade and Export Promotion Grants Pilot

The law will provide $90 million in competitive grants over next three years for states to help small business owners with exporting (target rollout summer 2011).


Increased Staff and Additional Export Counseling Resources.

Law Expands Training and Counseling

Major Investment in Counseling and Training

The law provides up to $50 million in grants to Small Business Development Centers across the country starting January 2011.


New Law Provides $12 Billion in Tax Relief to Help Small Businesses Invest in their Firms, Create Jobs

Extension, Expansion of Tax Cuts – 8 Small Business Tax Cuts

1.
The law increases the small business expensing limit to $500,000 for 2010 and 2011.

2.
The law makes a permanent change to allow qualified small businesses to carry back their general business credits to offset five years of taxes.

3.
The law temporarily puts in place for 2010 the elimination of all capital gains taxes for those who invest in small business.

4.
The law temporarily increases the amount of start-up expenditures entrepreneurs can deduct for 2010.

5.
The law permanently provides deductions for employer-provided cell phones

6.
The law allows the self-employed to deduct health insurance costs for themselves and their family members this year.

7.
The law changes, beginning this year, the limitations on penalties for errors in tax reporting that disproportionately affect small business

8.
The law extended 50% bonus depreciation through 2010; however, the new Tax Relief Act of 2010 further extends and expands this to 100% of any productive capital investments in 2011.

Treasury Department Provisions

Small Business Lending Fund – $30 billion

The law provides smaller community banks with low-cost capital (as low as 1%) if they go above and beyond 2009 small business lending levels.


Establishes State Small Business Credit Initiative

The law provides up to $1.5 billion to support state-run small business lending programs.


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jwhop
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posted August 02, 2011 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Misleading Words: Part II
08/02/2011


Thomas Sowell

If there were a contest for the most misleading words used in politics, "poverty" should be one of the leading contenders for that title.

Each of us may have his own idea of what poverty means -- especially those of us who grew up in poverty. But what poverty means politically and in the media is whatever the people who collect statistics choose to define as poverty.

This is not just a question of semantics. The whole future of the welfare state depends on how poverty is defined. "The poor" are the human shields behind whom advocates of ever bigger spending for ever bigger government advance toward their goal.

If poverty meant what most people think of as poverty -- people "ill-clad, ill-housed, and ill-nourished," in Franklin D. Roosevelt's phrase -- there would not be nearly enough people in poverty today to justify the vastly expanded powers and runaway spending of the federal government.


Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation has for years examined what "the poor" of today actually have -- and the economic facts completely undermine the political rhetoric.

Official data cited by Rector show that 80 percent of "poor" households have air-conditioning today, which less than half the population of America had in 1970. Nearly three-quarters of households in poverty own a motor vehicle, and nearly one-third own more than one motor vehicle.

Virtually everyone living in "poverty," as defined by the government, has color television, and most have cable TV or satellite TV. More than three-quarters have either a VCR or a DVD player, and nearly nine-tenths have a microwave oven.

As for being "ill-housed," the average poor American has more living space than the general population -- not just the poor population -- of London, Paris and other cities in Europe.


Various attempts have been made over the years to depict Americans in poverty as "ill-fed" but the "hunger in America" campaigns that have enjoyed such political and media popularity have usually used some pretty creative methods and definitions.

Actual studies of "the poor" have found their intake of the necessary nutrients to be no less than that of others. In fact, obesity is slightly more prevalent among low-income people.

The real triumph of words over reality, however, is in expensive government programs for "the elderly," including Medicare. The image often invoked is the person who is both ill and elderly, and who has to choose between food and medications.

It is great political theater. But, the most fundamental reality is that the average wealth of the elderly is some multiple of the average wealth owned by people in the other age brackets.

Why should the average taxpayer be subsidizing people who have much more wealth than they do?

If we are concerned about those particular elderly people who are in fact poor -- as we are about other people who are genuinely poor, whatever their age might be -- then we can simply confine our help to those who are poor by some reasonable means test. It would cost a fraction of what it costs to subsidize everybody who reaches a certain age.

But the political left hates means tests. If government programs were confined to people who were genuinely poor in some meaningful sense, that would shrink the welfare state to a fraction of its current size. The left would lose their human shields.

It is certainly true that the elderly are more likely to have more medical problems and larger medical expenses. But old age is not some unforeseeable misfortune. It is not only foreseeable but inevitable for those who do not die young.

It is one thing to keep people from suffering from unforeseeable things beyond their control. But it is something else to simply subsidize their necessities so that they can spend their money on other things and leave a larger estate to be passed on to their heirs.

People who say they want a government program because "I don't want to be a burden to my children" apparently think it is all right to be a burden to other people's children.

Among the runaway spending behind our current national debt problems is the extravagant luxury of buying political rhetoric.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45255

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katatonic
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posted August 02, 2011 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry jwhop but money for food and shelter is not wasted and in most cases has been paid for through taxes when the people work. unemployment and assistance cash circulate - EVERY dollar - back into the economy and the profits of the companies that produce them!

yes the total lack of any programs for the poor in somalia is the prime reason those people are starving. there is surplus food in ALL the developed countries just sitting around, so drought is no excuse either.

there are plenty of useless regs and depts we could get rid of without sacrificing a penny of foodstamp medicare or housing costs.

i agree with you we are overregulated practically to death right now. but throwing out the baby with the bathwater is NOT the solution. otherwise we would never have seen the need for safety nets at all. in the last depression people DIED OF STARVATION for lack of those safety nets. WORKING people lost EVERYTHING. you want that again?

as juni pointed out THESE DAYS the food most poor people can afford is refined carbs, cheap MSG-and-sugar laden food and canned goods that do more to put FAT on the body and deprive one of energy with which to DO something about one's position than they do to nourish. this is part of the reason that we have so much diabetes and heart disease among the poor (even more than the general population)

as juni pointed out, meat and other fresh foods are going through the roof. sure if you had a garden you could grow your own but not many poor people have gardens, or enough money to buy the soil, seeds and fertilizer either! they are too busy filling their children's NOW empty bellies with what they can afford.

there is so much fraud, bureaucracy and nitpicking in our system that COULD be eliminated, why take it out of the poor's mouths? would you really prefer to see the countryside covered with tent cities and trailer parks populated by people who once had homes but were tossed out by mortgage cos who are getting backhanders from the federal reserve and making record profits?

i have paid into the system for years and never had a penny of assistance. should i NEED it, i would be glad that it was there.

even though i don't need it and haven't yet, i am glad it is there so the poor don't feel they have to break into my house and knock me out to get what little i have!

no homeless in madeira beach yet then?

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katatonic
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From:
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posted August 02, 2011 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the poor will always be with us, as they always have, safety nets just make the problem less drastic and less of a problem for the rest of the people.

or do you think "they only have to REALLY starve enough and they'll get off their lazy arses and WORK!" ? because the REALLY starving don't have the energy to work much.

perhaps you prefer to see somalia type deprivation ON THE STREETS in your face?

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 1926
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 02, 2011 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the tenants of being an american is taking care of others. Full stop.

Comparing our poverty to others is a bad way to go. Poverty is poverty. The points made on diet are well taken.

Do our poor have personal flies buzzing around their heads as a Congo woman and her children have? That just makes good video? Google poverty in america, and look.

Perhaps that is a misleading reality.

:edit: for in your face reality, go to a city center, or rural environs. no need for google and a screen.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 5398
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 03, 2011 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem with forced contributions to government is that it sucks money out of the private economy to feed the government bureaucracy. Only a pittance of what's ripped off gets distributed to the needy.

Better by far to leave the money in the private sector where it goes to work creating job/wealth..for everyone.

The only way a Socialist would ever pass an Econ 101 test would be if they took the answer exactly opposite to their impulses or they cheated.

20-30 years ago there was a study on the US welfare system.

The study found the welfare budget would permit the payment of about $70,000 per family on the program...except for the fact the bureaucracy siphoned off most of the funds before the needy saw a single cent.

Today, the one place there's no depression, no recession, no economic hardship...is Washington, District of Columbia among the federal bureaucracy.

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 1926
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 03, 2011 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obviously you have not been around 14th & U recently.....

Or, across the river in anacostia.

the anacostia river that is, the new stadium has found a home here.


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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 1926
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 03, 2011 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That bridge looks well cared for too, wonder how the locals are faring?

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katatonic
Knowflake

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From:
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posted August 03, 2011 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that money in the private sector has been going to work making money for the VERY private sector. sorry but the less you tax the richest the less they put into the country. or haven't you noticed?

meanwhile though a lot of people haven't noticed, while a corporation has the same rights as a Person, a Person does not have the same rights as a Corporation...BUT actually we could ALL be corporations by INCORPORATING ourselves as do many of the richer members of our society. i know people who don't have all that much who have done so and avoided huge amounts of tax thereby.

so INCOME tax really doesn't matter much to them when it comes right down to it.

HOWEVER this process does cost more than the average poor family can spare.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 5398
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 04, 2011 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gee, that picture looks like the aftermath of an O'Bomber rally...or after his fellow Socialists trashed Washington at O'Bomber's inaugural.

So, what's the explanation?

O'Bomber has been infesting the White House for 2 and a half years. DC has a far left government.

So, why is there trash in the lots, streets and waterways of the US Capitol?

Oh yeah, one other question.

Why are DC residents trashing their city?

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 8377
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 04, 2011 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop why then is "the american century" the century where we installed safety nets and social programs? before WWII america was looked down on as an upstart younger sibling to the GREAT powers. after it, and FDR's programs, it became THE power...rivalled mainly by the USSR...which WAS a communist govt and which collapsed under the weight of its system.

i have never suggested that the USSR was a better model, nor has obama tried to turn the US into a new version of USSR.

but the poor are the poor, in russia, in somalia and in the USA. again, no homeless in madeira beach? you think homeless people and tent cities are not poor?

"welfare" comes to about $300 a month! YOU try living on that!

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