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Author Topic:   Rush Weighs in on Alternative Fuels
Ami Anne
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posted June 16, 2012 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Don't tell me about alternative fuels, until one can get a plane off the runway"

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AcousticGod
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posted June 16, 2012 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I so want to do a piece on Rush's illogical thinking when he compares Romney to Buffett. I'm just afraid that you won't understand the back story enough to understand the analysis.

In it's essence, Rush says that Romney's just like Buffett. The only thing is, most of Romney's investments have been to unsound or failing businesses whereas Buffett mostly sticks to sure things, and doesn't believe you should invest in companies that have no advantages over other companies. The two couldn't be farther apart in investment strategies, and yet Rush seems to believe they're quite similar.

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Randall
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posted June 16, 2012 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They seem very similar to me...the difference being in that Romney tries to turn companies around while Buffet takes the sure bet. One is a hands-on entrepreneur while the other is an investor, but both are at the highest level of wealth building according to Kyosaki's quadrant.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 16, 2012 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, AG, what is wrong with a good businessman? The answer to that question IS what is wrong with this country?

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jwhop
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posted June 17, 2012 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the differences is that Buffett should be in prison...RIGHT NOW..for using insider information gained from congressional members during the run-up to TARP when it was being decided what financial institutions were going to be given huge bailouts.

Bank of America was one such financial institution Buffett invested money in...on insider information and he made a ton of money on that transation when Bank of America stock rocketed upwards and BofA repurchased Buffetts shares at a huge premium on a repurchase agreement.

Now, if you can pin anything like that on Romney....well, you just trot it on out here front and center! Otherwise, drop the bullshiiit!

As for alternative fuels, I'm with Ami. Show me an alternative fuel which can compete with jet fuel..(kerosene)..price wise and I'll be all ears. I know you can't. Ami knows you can't and Rush knows you can't.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 17, 2012 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop
You are singularly responsible for my getting back an interest in politics. I had given up hope when O'Bomber got elected. In fact, I was up all night, in despair. I knew we were in for very bad things. I was not wrong. Most people could not seem to see it. When I heard your strong voice on here, I had some hope, again. Thank you, Jwhop

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AcousticGod
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posted June 18, 2012 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How can they seem similar if one has a long record of failed businesses, and the other is opposed to purchasing interests in undervalued and underperforming businesses?

Jwhop, you're hysterical as always. Buffett hasn't been accused nor convicted of insider trading. You're always trying to send people to prison for crimes you imagine to have happened. Let them make it to prison before you say that's where they belong.

As far as Romney, we can pin making money off of public offerings and bankrupcy. That's not illegal, but if an entity engages in over and over again, perhaps someone should take a look at the operation. Conversely, Buffett and his Conservative partner Munger do attempt to do everything with equity and integrity. That doesn't necessarily mean that they always succeed, but it's a far different philosophy and investment strategy, and I'd say it's far more within the lines of what Capitalism is supposed to be.

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jwhop
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posted June 18, 2012 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for the record

Mitt Romney is not my guy. He's not a conservative.

But, Daffy Duck is more logical, more rational, more stable and would be a better president than Barack Hussein O'Bomber.

You've got your head where it usually can be found acoustic...up your butt.

Romney has no long record of failed businesses. Romney has a sterling business record as anyone with 2 braincells to rub together knows.

As for the so called Oracle of Omaha, he'd be wearing an orange jumpsuit right now if the laws against insider trading were applied equally to him as were applied to others. He's a criminal having broken the law, he's just not a felon having not been prosecuted.

He's also a leftist hypocrite for pushing a higher income tax scheme he knows he's not going to pay himself since he takes his "income" in the form of capital gains and dividends...not "ordinary income".

While we're on the subject of the Oracle of Omaha acoustic; would you care to take a guess as to how many billions of dollars Buffett has lost his investors in the last 4 years?

The only thing that's hysterical is watching you and other leftists try to cover O'Bomber's sorry stumble bum ass with absurd, ludicrous rhetoric as he lurches from one disaster to another.

Now, that's hysterical.

Hang on Ami. November is just around the corner!

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AcousticGod
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posted June 19, 2012 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop, as usual, trying to make me out as the lesser intelligent of us isn't going to do anything for your cause.

Romney does, in fact, have a long record of failed businesses. It's in the other thread. Here, I'll repost it for you:

    And let's take a look at the record specifically of Bain Capital, which Romney owned from 1992 to 2001.

  • 1988: Bain put $10 million down to buy Stage Stores, and in the mid-'90s took it public, collecting $184 million from stock offerings. Stage filed for bankruptcy in 2000.

  • 1992: Bain bought American Pad & Paper, investing $5 million, and collected $107 million from dividends. The business filed for bankruptcy in 2000.

  • 1993: Bain invested $25 million when buying GS Industries, and received $58 million from dividends. GS filed for bankruptcy in 2001.

  • 1994: Bain put $27 million down to buy medical equipment maker Dade Behring. Dade borrowed $230 million to buy some of its shares. Dade went bankrupt in 2002.

  • 1997: Bain invested $41 million when buying Details, and collected at least $70 million from stock offerings. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2003.

Clearly, this is a list of making money off of bankrupcy and public offerings.

There is no defense of your charges on Buffett. I'm sure there's no one under more scrutiny than him in the investing world. If they're going after Rajat Gupta, I'm sure Warren Buffett wouldn't be out of their sites.

You're clearly hysterical. Now you're trying to pile on with Buffett supposedly being a leftist with a tax plan he won't want to adhere to, and throwing a word about Berkshire's failures. It's your typical attempt to discredit someone you don't like. Plain and simple. You know there's not an investor or hedge fund manager in the world you can trust absolutely to keep your risk in negative territory. Not one. Past results don't guarantee future success. Standard investment warning given by everyone. The fact that Berkshire did suffer losses disproves your notion of insider trading, doesn't it?

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Ami Anne
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posted June 19, 2012 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Hang on Ami. November is just around the corner!

My your mouth to God's ear, Jwhop

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jwhop
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posted June 19, 2012 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As usual acoustic...you're full of it!

"And let's take a look at the record specifically of Bain Capital, which Romney owned from 1992 to 2001."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

"1988: Bain put $10 million down to buy Stage Stores, and in the mid-'90s took it public, collecting $184 million from stock offerings. Stage filed for bankruptcy in 2000."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

"1992: Bain bought American Pad & Paper, investing $5 million, and collected $107 million from dividends. The business filed for bankruptcy in 2000."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

"1993: Bain invested $25 million when buying GS Industries, and received $58 million from dividends. GS filed for bankruptcy in 2001."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

"1994: Bain put $27 million down to buy medical equipment maker Dade Behring. Dade borrowed $230 million to buy some of its shares. Dade went bankrupt in 2002."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

"1997: Bain invested $41 million when buying Details, and collected at least $70 million from stock offerings. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2003."

Romney left Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee.

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AcousticGod
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posted June 19, 2012 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You do realize how stupid this looks, right?

You're saying he left right before all of these bought companies went bankrupt.

Stage Stores had eleven years under his "leadership" before going bankrupt.

Ampad had seven years under his "leadership" before going bankrupt.

GS Industries was under his "leadership" for six years before going bankrupt.

Dade Behring was under his "leadership" for five years before going bankrupt.

Details was under Romney's "leadership" for two years before going bankrupt.

Now let's look at how fast each bankruptcy happened:

Stage Stores: 12 years
Ampad: 8 years
GS Industries: 8 years
Dade Behring: 8 years
Details: 6 years

They got pretty darn good at it, don't you think? I bet they they can bankrupt a place in four years if need be now.

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katatonic
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posted June 19, 2012 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well i'm not sure where rush has been but we already have solar airplanes. they are in their "infancy" as yet, but one flew the english channel 30 years ago, and another more recently travelled from spain to africa.

of course all the adverse publicity won't help in the funding arena but it is happening. some WILL drag their heels until to do otherwise would bring obvious humiliation.

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jwhop
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posted June 19, 2012 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah acoustic, you really do need to consult a calendar...if you even know what a calendar is.

All those dates you posted were AFTER Romney left Bain Capital.

Thought you should know how foolish that makes you look for posting such trash.

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AcousticGod
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posted June 19, 2012 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How many times do I have to ask you not to be silly before you finally take my advice? Just because the bankruptcies happened after he left doesn't mean he wasn't in charge of Bain Capital as those companies spiraled out of control before finally hitting rock bottom within a couple years of his departure. You don't need a calendar to know that his leadership of those companies lead to their ruin.

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katatonic
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posted June 20, 2012 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
re the OP, once again:

well i'm not sure where rush has been but we already have solar airplanes. they are in their "infancy" as yet, but one flew the english channel 30 years ago, and another more recently travelled from spain to africa.

i am not up on what other solar flights have taken place, but the technology is in place with only the need for tweaking. so cancel another rush assumption...

it's not a matter of getting off the runway, but of appeasing the oil barons, but now that THEY are turning to solar as an upcoming industry, it probably won't take much longer.

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SpooL
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posted June 21, 2012 03:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The reality is none of the current alternative fuels have positives that far outweigh the negatives.

Either because of cost or it needs another energy source to produce it for example Hydrogen Fuel Cells need Hydrogen + Oxygen.

You can't go to the gas station and pump Hydrogen, you have to separate it from other elements.

But, eventually we will far exceed earths available resources and will have to find alternatives.

However, that will be years from now, we will all be dead by then and it will be someone elses problem.

quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
re the OP, once again:
well i'm not sure where rush has been but we already have solar airplanes. they are in their "infancy" as yet, but one flew the english channel 30 years ago, and another more recently travelled from spain to africa.

i am not up on what other solar flights have taken place, but the technology is in place with only the need for tweaking. so cancel another rush assumption...

it's not a matter of getting off the runway, but of appeasing the oil barons, but now that THEY are turning to solar as an upcoming industry, it probably won't take much longer.


In the case with solar there are two problems:

1)Solar Energy is not 1:1- The amount of energy absorbed by solar cells is not the same energy outputted back, so its vary inefficient.

Thats why if you see a solar farm, there will be lots of solar cells, just to make enough energy.

2)Seasonality and Location: During the winter sunlight intensity changes and only 6hrs of sunlight is received.

Solar power is great if you live at the equator where you can get 8hrs of sunlight and also receiving the maximum amount of solar energy possible.

But, not everyone lives live at the equator.

I'd like to know if the plane took off during the summer season.

It would work going from Spain to Africa as the plane is flying into more sun intensity.
Not so sure I would want to fly the other way and during the winter.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 21, 2012 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spool
We NEED you. We need a few more intelligent voices. I can't speak for 10 people, any more

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AcousticGod
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posted June 21, 2012 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alternative fuels can get jets off the ground. A quick Google search will confirm as much.

    With high fuel costs buffeting airlines around the world, the best hope for alternative energy for commercial aviation may be on the horizon.

    The standards-setting body ASTM International is set to vote this summer on certification of hydrotreated renewable jet (HRJ) fuel.

    Tests both in the laboratory and in the air (led by a most prodigious jet fuel consumer, the U.S. Department of Defense) have shown that HRJ can be processed from many types of feedstock—from weedy plants to animal fat—to make a fuel chemically identical to the crude-oil based kerosene that powers flight today.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/05/110520-jet-fuel-biofuel-for-commercial-flights/

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katatonic
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posted June 21, 2012 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
50 years ago science believed that computers would continue to grow in size to mammoth proportions. quite the opposite happened, and you can all see how fast the technology has grown in that one field.

solar is the same, as was oil-powered industry...the first growing pains are the slowest and then the snowball of innovation kicks in. to NOT invest in this NOW while we have the chance is to leave those who come after us scrambling for survival instead of easing into a new paradigm.

nice, spool. glad to know it is not OUR problem. as oil was not the problem of our great grandparents but the blessing.

unfortunately there are 3 times as many people around these days as there were then. the amount of space per capita has shrunk proportionately, and the amount of space we can afford to destroy with oil spills, etc, ditto.

when people talked overpopulation in the 70s it was not really THEIR problem. however now it is ours. in a few years if everyone insists on having 5 kids we will be 8 billion, but guess what? earth is not getting any bigger. solutions will have to be found and if we don't keep looking for them now it will be too late, back to the dark ages for your kids...oh but not OUR problem! so who cares?

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Randall
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posted June 21, 2012 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The earth is not overpopulated and can easily accomodate 10 times its current population or more. The problem is resource allocation, not space.

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SpooL
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posted June 22, 2012 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm have nothing against alternative energy, if anything I would like to see more.

I do like the fact more people are using solar energy to heat there pools, of course you need a backup just in case.

Its just none of the alternative energy sources can really replace what me have now.

It will take time, it won't happen until all of are current resource are depleted and that will take at least another 80-100yrs.

GE, Pratt and whitey, Rolls Royce all of the aircraft engine manufactures aren't going to switch to alternatives until that happens.

We have a "system in place" and until something really happens such as depleted resources, nothing will really change.

Solar cells are still vary inefficient.

There has been some development, have you heard of a solar power tower? mirrors are used to reflect and concentrate the incoming solar energy to the center tower.

But, as solar cells alone not efficient.

quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The earth is not overpopulated and can easily accomodate 10 times its current population or more. The problem is resource allocation, not space.

Overpopulation is a tricky subject, its not black and white, more grayish.

The population is definitely increasing, especially in places such as Asia.

But, in western nations the population is decreasing because of the large number of baby boomers dieing off and the declining births to replace those baby boomers.

Obviously, health care is better in western nations so people are living longer of course that means we've neglected increasing the number of births because the aging baby boomers reflect the greater population.

In the next 10-15yrs you will see "masses" of baby boomers passing away as they enter there 60's-70's.

For example Japan has a problem with a high "elder "population.

Globally it balances out with declining births and baby boomers passing away in the west and excess births in the eastern hemisphere.

Randal is correct. There's also an unequal distribution of food, obviously "we" in the west get more than what is received in Africa.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 22, 2012 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The earth is not overpopulated and can easily accomodate 10 times its current population or more. The problem is resource allocation, not space.


Yes, politics plays a huge part in not accessing the energy we do have

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AcousticGod
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posted June 22, 2012 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spool, not everyone waits for there to be a problem before they address it. Some people do proactively prepare for things. Yes, I agree that people do a lot more in times of crisis, but a good manager averts crisis with careful planning.

Solar is inefficient, but it's also becoming more efficient all the time. They have gotten equal energy output as taken through solar input, so things are progressing.

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katatonic
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posted June 22, 2012 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The earth is not overpopulated and can easily accomodate 10 times its current population or more. The problem is resource allocation, not space. - randall

that is your opinion, randall, to which you are entitled. i agree, resource allocation is the priority.

however, not knowing your age i don't know if you have seen the space shrinking all over the world. sure, huge empty spaces - which we need if we are to have animals and vegetables survive with us (and until we invent good replacements that is essential) - but i remember when the world was about half as crowded as it is now.

so unless your definition of overpopulation is the WHOLE earth covered with shoulder to shoulder people, this is a looming problem, and it is not getting any smaller.

one purpose of wars is to keep the population down, but once you get past a certain point you need MASS annihilations to keep that effect going.

i am not interested in living on reconstituted water and food with 8 people to a room thanks. "overpopulation" is a relative term. been to india?

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