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Author
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Topic: Preview O'Bomber DeathCare Here
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AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 21, 2012 03:20 PM
  
Nor does it make it accurate. She's right to say that sensationalized pieces may not be the best source of accurate information.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 33702
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted June 21, 2012 03:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Nor does it make it accurate. She's right to say that sensationalized pieces may not be the best source of accurate information.
AG
You are so middle of the road that you will be sitting on the white line when a tractor trailer comes by 
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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19339
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 21, 2012 04:34 PM
I don't disagree with you, AG. I disagree with the word fiction. Just because a piece is opinionated at parts doesn't make it a work of fiction. I can report on a mass killing and call it disturbing and still give an accurate account of the facts.------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 5362
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 21, 2012 05:01 PM
There is no "rational argument" to justify medical murder by supposed medical professionals whose calling includes doing good for their patients...which most certainly does not include killing them.You get more delusional daily acoustic. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 21, 2012 05:06 PM
Nobody attempted such an argument, Jwhop. You brought this article here claiming it was America's future. I disagreed with your premise with good reason. You don't have the psychological wherewithall to claim someone else is delusional....not with what you post here.IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 5362
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 21, 2012 10:06 PM
All I'm doing acoustic is feeding your very own words back to you. Don't you even recognize them?  There are so many points of congruence between O'BomberCare and British Socialized Medical Services that only the delusional would fail to see the similarities. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 11:08 AM
No, you're not, and there aren't so many points of congruence. They're, in fact, vastly different from any vantage point. You're being stereotypically ridiculous.IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 5362
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 07:01 PM
"Progress and change are inevitable."...acousticUmmm, we're talking about medical murder here acoustic. Further acoustic, O'BomberCare has a health care rationing board of non physician bureaucrats built into the system; unaccountable to Congress or anyone else. They have the very last word on what services physicians and hospitals will be paid to deliver to patients and THERE'S NO DAMNED APPEAL FROM THEIR RULING. NOT TO THE COURTS, NOT TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE OR ANYONE ELSE. Got it acoustic? They are the DEATH PANEL and their damned ruling is final. period. Sarah Palin was right, is right and you've got you head where it can always be found...up your butt. You're also wrong about insurance policies and coverages too. Insurance policies are contracts. Insurance policies cover certain stated cost limits and illnesses. Once a claim is made, the company may cancel the policy but they may not refuse to honor the contract which was in force, up to the limit of policy coverages. How in the hell do some people make it through the day without a babysitter? One last thing. Insurance companies ARE NOT rationing health care. People freely choose, or employers choose the coverage they wish to have and pay the insurance premiums. That's not rationing. That's the free markets at work...so far as free markets can work with states restricting which and how many insurance companies can operate within each state. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 8236
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 07:33 PM
the use of words like "chilling" "shock/horror" are designed to roil people up. this is not reporting, but agitating. it is not, therefore, news as in the facts, but politicking, which the mail is prone to, and sensationalizing, which the murdoch empire has made commonplace and explains why so many people don't even notice any more.there is a huge difference between "gruesome massacre at the ok corral" and "shoot out at the ok corral". IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 08:24 PM
You never fail to distort there, do you Jwhop?First, your idea and my idea don't go together. It's completely irrational of you to have attempted this pairing of ideas. Progress does not necessitate so called "medical murder," and that was my point. Second, Palin was dead wrong. Rational people all over the country exploded her death panel myth. The proof of this is rather self-evident: how many Constitutional challenges have been levied on that front? None that I'm aware of. You're saying that the government is advocating a system to kill it's constituencies. I can't imagine that would pass muster with any legal system here. Third, you seem to be quite confused about abuses under our insurance system. Of course there are contracts, and of course both parties to such a contract are supposed to hold up their end. Are you going to sit there and claim every insurance company has met its side of the bargain in all cases across the board? Are you that naive? Are you also going to tell me that insurance companies have universally overspent on healthcare, even beyond the confines of their contracted services in order to keep people alive? Really? Aren't all insurance policies an agreement for rationing beyond which you're on your own and dead to rights? Yes, yes they are. You might want to be a little smarter in challenging me. The more I explain to you, the more you look like you have no clue what you're talking about. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 33702
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted June 22, 2012 08:26 PM
quote:
How in the hell do some people make it through the day without a babysitter?
Great question and the answer is..................................  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 08:44 PM
The ADULTS don't need babysitters. It's those with childish ideas about things that act with immaturity that need the babysitting.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 33702
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted June 22, 2012 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
The ADULTS don't need babysitters. It's those with childish ideas about things that act with immaturity that need the babysitting.
Its hard to stay mad at you, AG. Get to bed or no dessert 
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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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Lonake
Moderator Posts: 8123
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 10:26 PM
If this is the case, well the uninsured die waiting for coverage as well,
quote:
According to the study, "Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured," premature deaths due to a lack of health insurance reached its highest point in 2010. From 2005 to 2010, the number of deaths nationally increased from 20,350 to 26,100.
Huffington PostI think no matter the system in place (keeping in mind limited resources for this insanely expensive endeavor, either of the govt or of the individual) there will always be someone that loses out. If there aren't accounting errors, or administrative errors, there are doctor errors (resulting in death). The whole attitude to (and business of) health in this country is flawed. As always, the most vulnerable groups are at the most risk. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 22, 2012 10:43 PM
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katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 8236
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 23, 2012 01:14 PM
exacktickally, lonake. while the british ***** about the NHS they mostly ***** about how privatization has made it TOO cost conscious...and nothing is ever 100% right anywhere is it? so one person writes an over the top piece to bring in the pennies and those who have no personal knowledge of the situation swallow it as the gospel and only view.personally i never met a good doctor who wouldn't give away care to those who couldn't afford it...and even to those who could! even my vet will waive fees if they are prohibitive to her customers. IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 5362
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 23, 2012 07:03 PM
That's crap. The uninsured DO NOT DIE because they're uninsured. Federal law requires hospitals to treat them just as if they were insured.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 33702
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted June 23, 2012 08:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jwhop:
That's crap. The uninsured DO NOT DIE because they're uninsured. Federal law requires hospitals to treat them just as if they were insured.
TOTALLY. Where do you Liberals live? In an igloo 
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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
Lonake
Moderator Posts: 8123
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 24, 2012 05:25 AM
I will give you that people are living longer and there 'seems' to be a crisis as to how to extend resources to meet increasing demand, this does not excuse a 'chilling claim', if it is true. What I don't understand in the article is, there is no mention of the treatment being authorized by the patient or their representative. That is my first question. Where I'm from, esp with an elderly person, there is an agreed upon course of action 'in the event of' - and the hospital abides by that, of course giving advice along the way.
quote:
It is designed to come into force when doctors believe it is impossible for a patient to recover and death is imminent.
imo This is not the doctor's decision to make, it is that of the patient. So, if the patient is aware of the pathway, as crazy as it sounds to me, and requests it 'in the event of' then in my mind, they are within their rights to do so and I don't see the point of vilifying a personal choice to knock down a healthcare system. If someone takes advantage of the patient's choice of that pathway, I'm sorry to say this, but it is the fault of the patient for choosing such an absurd course of action in the first place. If the patient wants to die, and the hospital is willing to comply by circumventing a course of care, then that is between the 2 and not my business.
quote:
Professor Pullicino said he had returned to work after a weekend to find the patient unresponsive and his family upset because they had not agreed to place him on the LCP.
This is where the problem lies it would seem. Egregious.
quote:
The personal views of the physician or other medical team members of perceived quality of life or low likelihood of a good outcome are probably central in putting a patient on the LCP.’
If this is the case then it's not kosher, again not their decision to make. The aim isn't for quality of life (aside from quality of care/facilities) it's to treat the sick and ease the pain of the dying. The patient decides what to do in case quality deteriorates. Now I direct you to this comment by AG,
quote:
We don't live in a country that's going to be OK with letting the medical community abuse patients regardless of who runs or regulates healthcare.
I agree with this, there's an emphasis in the U.S. of advocating for yourself, as the patient. It's relatively recent, but it's thankfully growing stronger as we're wising up to the fact that those who treat us aren't always on the ball and don't always know what they're doing, and don't always take our concerns seriously (this is even more the case when women are patients). We have our part to play in honest reporting to the doctor about our habits, and taking responsibility for our actions. Being in control counts for a lot when your health's at stake.
quote:
Can You Stand Up to Your MD?The things that will make you an active advocate for your health care are simple, but not easy for everyone to do. The doctor's role as an authority figure is still deeply ingrained in the culture. Do you follow doctor's orders, or do you participate in shared medical decision-making? The latter sounds better, but when you are in the room, with the paper on the exam table crinkling under your bare bottom, you may not feel so empowered. "What we're doing is fundamentally challenging a lot of patients' basic notions of what the doctor's and the patient's roles are," Haidet says. "That's a huge bar for patients to leap over."
I read a tip once, it said call the docs and nurses by their 1st names. Take away their authority and put em on the same level. No free passes to play 'i know more than you so i win.'Another thing to mention, is that the U.S., in my estimation, is much more lawsuit-trigger-happy than the UK. Correct me if wrong.
quote:
What are my rights?If you're not happy with the care or treatment you've received or you've been refused treatment for a condition, you have the right to complain, have your complaint investigated, and be given a full and prompt reply. The NHS Constitution explains your rights when it comes to making a complaint. You have the right to: have your complaint dealt with efficiently, and properly investigated,
know the outcome of any investigation into your complaint,
take your complaint to the independent Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman if you're not satisfied with the way the NHS has dealt with your complaint,
make a claim for judicial review if you think you've been directly affected by an unlawful act or decision of an NHS body, and
receive compensation if you've been harmed.
NHS Choices - How to complain
This sounds more like 'a right to be lied to.'
quote:
I think this comment should be allowed because it is a general question and complaint on the sort of response many people get if they make a complaint. This comment is the only way of contacting NHS Choices - or lack of them.NHS Choices deleted my 2 comments - showing up the choices we really had. I re-submit this comment.
This is to jwhop specifically,
quote:
the problem i have in uk is that there is no specialist doctor like dermotologist or dentist surgeon, cardiologist ,pediatrician and psycologist and many other specialist which people they can go to .
every body with every problem should go to a gp . other thing is a patient should not wait ,there are several cases which people with major health problems even died for waiting for operation
If you question the veracity of my previous comment, then do you take issue with the comment I bolded here. Happens in the U.S. right now too, dying waiting for a heart transplant, or a new liver. No matter uninsured or not, there will be problems and there will be resulting deaths, again, a faulty attitude toward health care (both by doc and patient) and resources being stretched to the limit. Deaths will result and the most vulnerable are at most risk. And specifically regarding the study I alluded to earlier, yes it was led by a Democrat-leaning special interest group, and how does that take away from the info they've obtained in this study? If there was a Republican-leaning special interest group out to inform patients, maybe then would you listen? Or would they not be so bold as to report on an issue such as this?
Families USA - Dying for coverage (PDF)
Is it because it's a non-profit that you are so negatively disposed to their research? If they are trying to advocate for the consumer, how does that personally hinder you and immed invoke disdain? I know you're extrapolating what your posted article means if Obama Care is passed as you fear, and I'm opposed to certain measures therein as well (and am -anxious- for the ruling, already), but I won't jump the gun and go so far as to compare the way one country handles it's medical care, with that of another, even if they do both happen to be first world countries that speak english. I'm not saying the atrocious acts mentioned in your article aren't happening: I don't know, I'm not there. But the fact is that no one here knows what's all in those pages that were sent to be voted on, and If I'm not mistaken, there are Supreme Court Justices who also will not read the doc in total. So with that in mind, let's not jump to conclusion. If I was in Britain, I would be looking into the issue you mentioned like a dog in heat, and be the good 'loud mouthed American' that I am, much to their dismay; but I am not there, I am in my *home* country, and frankly there are too many problems to contend with here. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6153
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 24, 2012 12:45 PM
We get a lot of simplistic reactions to things around here, and Jwhop's comment was in that vein. I don't see how a person of his advanced years would not know the benefit of preventative medicine, and the effects it has on longevity. Surely, the uninsured suffer worse health (including death) from not having insurance. The Federal law only pertains to emergency service, so if a patient is seen after already suffering the worst of whatever ailment they have, the options will be limited. IP: Logged |
Lonake
Moderator Posts: 8123
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 26, 2012 10:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
The Federal law only pertains to emergency service, so if a patient is seen after already suffering the worst of whatever ailment they have, the options will be limited.
IP: Logged | |
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