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Author Topic:   Obama's Legacy: The Largest Tax Increase On The Middle Class In History!
Randall
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posted June 28, 2012 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Obamacare is a tax, then it is a huge increase on the middle class. It is also a large burden on the poor. The poor depend on their tax refunds each year, especially the earned income tax credit for having children, but now if they don't have health insurance, they will have $150 a month deducted from their refunds as a penalty. That's $3,600 for a couple. At a delicate time during an economic recovery, this could be the last nail in the coffin.

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AcousticGod
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posted June 28, 2012 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You seem to be ignoring provisions for the poor.

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Randall
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posted June 28, 2012 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The key is what does the legislation consider "poor"? As far as the earned income credit goes, it reaches into lower middle class.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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AcousticGod
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posted June 28, 2012 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/rush-limbaugh/health-care-law-not-largest-tax-increase-us-histor/

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Randall
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posted June 28, 2012 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't talking about the actual tax increases associated with the law. I'm talking about the added financial burdens to the individuals in the middle class. The other increases only add to it. That, to me, translates into a tax increase, since the increases are due to the legislated mandate, which we are now viewing as a tax. The new agencies it creates will make Obama the highest spending president in history (if he isn't already).

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AcousticGod
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posted June 28, 2012 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Take comfort in the fact that it's very similar to what Republicans were countering Hillarycare with in the 1990's.
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-Comparison.aspx

I don't know about the added financial burdens you're talking about. If you're middle class with a job, you likely already have insurance, and your taxes aren't going up. What is the extra cost?

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Ami Anne
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posted June 28, 2012 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Take comfort in the fact that it's very similar to what Republicans were countering Hillarycare with in the 1990's.
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-Comparison.aspx

I don't know about the added financial burdens you're talking about. If you're middle class with a job, you likely already have insurance, and your taxes aren't going up. What is the extra cost?



AG, with all due respect, are you for real, here

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AcousticGod
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posted June 28, 2012 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely. Are you for real asking me that?

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Randall
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posted June 28, 2012 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Employers are only required to provide insurance if they employ 50 or more people. Many small businesses (like real estate management) won't qualify, but they still pay good salaries to managers (making them middle class).

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Ami Anne
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posted June 28, 2012 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Absolutely. Are you for real asking me that?

Yes I am, Sir

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AcousticGod
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posted June 28, 2012 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If they pay them well, then it would make sense that they'd provide themselves with health insurance I would think.

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Randall
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posted June 28, 2012 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not really. House payment, two car payments, and a couple of kids make middle class the new poor.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 28, 2012 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Not really. House payment, two car payments, and a couple of kids makes middle class the new poor.

Totally, totally, totally!

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Ami Anne
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posted June 29, 2012 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
o'Bomber was the perfect storm. He called racism at ANY criticism of him, so people were stymied, until he pulled big power grabs like this. The Constitution lies like a loose tooth, waiting to fall.

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Randall
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posted June 29, 2012 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way things currently stand, the feds can override the commerce clause and require us to buy anything under the guise of a tax. That sets a dangerous precedent. On July 11, they are voting to scrap the whole thing.

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AcousticGod
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posted June 29, 2012 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Part of me feels like you guys are too emotional to deal with on this issue.

I think we could have done much better on healthcare, but at least the ball is rolling now. Now we need analysis of the better healthcare systems in the world, so we can mold a more efficient model. Our costs shouldn't be so extraordinarily out of line with the rest of the world, and particularly those countries that are beating our health metrics.

Conservatives, in general, need to stop being hypocritical on healthcare. This bill is so similar to what Conservatives proposed as an alternative to the healthcare reform pursued by Hillary Clinton. Why turn your back on the legislation you yourself proposed? It doesn't make sense...unless it's purely partisan. Is the value of partisanship greater than the value of trying to reign in healthcare costs for everyone?

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Lonake
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posted June 29, 2012 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
That sets a dangerous precedent.

True. I take (some) comfort in the fact that the poor won't be penalized, as Obama had threatened to (jerk) by taking their Medicaid federal monies away if the states didn't comply. How nice of him to try to put an extra burden on bankrupt areas

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shura
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posted June 29, 2012 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Now we need analysis of the better healthcare systems in the world, so we can mold a more efficient model.

There's an idea! Let's try Greece.

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AcousticGod
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posted June 29, 2012 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We could shoot higher than that.

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Ami Anne
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posted June 29, 2012 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Part of me feels like you guys are too emotional to deal with on this issue.

I think we could have done much better on healthcare, but at least the ball is rolling now. Now we need analysis of the better healthcare systems in the world, so we can mold a more efficient model. Our costs should be so extraordinarily out of line with the rest of the world, and particularly those countries that are beating our health metrics.

Conservatives, in general, need to stop being hypocritical on healthcare. This bill is so similar to what Conservatives proposed as an alternative to the healthcare reform pursued by Hillary Clinton. Why turn your back on the legislation you yourself proposed? It doesn't make sense...unless it's purely partisan. Is the value of partisanship greater than the value of trying to reign in healthcare costs for everyone?



"Ball is rolling????"
Said the frog when the water was luke warm

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shura
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posted June 29, 2012 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
let's hope so, AG

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katatonic
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posted June 29, 2012 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i heard an interview on the radio today with a man named wendell potter who was the insurance industry spin doctor who belittled michael moore's film "sicko"...basically slandered and ran it down, including ad hominem attacks on moore himself, to keep that view from gaining any traction with the public.

this job led him to see a) the basic dishonesty of the insurance racket and b) how many people were being seriously hurt by that racket. he stopped working as spin doctor because of this reform act.

he became a proponent of the healthcare law, which he decided really didn't do nearly enough, but was "so much better than nothing" he couldn't run it down.
http://wendellpotter.com/2010/11/my-apologies-to-michael-moore-and-the-health-insurance-industry/

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katatonic
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posted June 30, 2012 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
have to laugh at the twitterfest of postings from irate republicans who are planning on emigrating to canada to get away from this SOCIALIST regime. people are so well-informed, don't you think?

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shura
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posted June 30, 2012 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's hilarious. Let 'em go. Good riddance.

Where did Rush say he was headed? Costa Rica?

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AcousticGod
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posted July 01, 2012 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that's what I heard, too. They not only have socialized medicine, but Americans regularly go there to get medical procedures done more inexpensively. My own father saved at least ten grand by having a dental procedure done there.

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