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Author
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Topic: For those that blame the working poor for their position in life
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 34389
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 17, 2012 02:36 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Capital gains should not be taxed. Period.There should be no re-distribution of anything. Period. The solution to not being able to afford is to do without. Period. There should be a haircut to everything the government doles out, and nothing is sacred. There should be an absolute balanced budget in every year and the government should learn to do without 75% of its bureaucracy, outside of the Pentagon and Homeland Security. This is a call for the bankruptcy filing of the federal government and an associated financial turnaround. There is a bitter pill for all to swallow. Learn to live within our means and learn to live without a lot of things. If the US Government had a FICO score, it wouldn't clear 580.
AG
This is sense. You make no sense. ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 02:50 PM
Randall, wealth redistribution is already defined, isn't it? A bunch of people putting money into a pot for some benefit which may vary from person to person.Ami, your problem is easy. You assume that between smart people, those that agree with your beliefs are somehow superior. Instead of looking at the topic of conversation (as I've asked you to do repeatedly), you're trying to make this about teams. Valid ideas are based in logic. I've undone the logic of Conservatives countless times in this forum, so proclaiming them valid does very little for their actual credibility. Validity is established via logical means, dissection. If this conversation had been non-political, you'd have easily seem my point in all of the points I've made. Your belief is your block. That's not on me. That's on you. Adapt and transform. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 03:00 PM
Ami, once again sense is not something YOU have the ability to claim. It doesn't automatically make sense because someone on your team said it. That's ridiculous nonsense.YTA, Of course capital gains should be taxed. You've given your reasons for why you believe it shouldn't, and I've shot them all down. Another proclamation doesn't change that. quote:
There should be no re-distribution of anything. Period.
No redistribution of profits? Abolish the stock market then? quote:
The solution to not being able to afford is to do without. Period.
I agree. quote:
posted July 17, 2012 02:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
If you're suggesting that capital gains should be a progressive tax, I'd be ok with that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Capital gains should not be taxed. Period. There should be no re-distribution of anything. Period. The solution to not being able to afford is to do without. Period. There should be a haircut to everything the government doles out, and nothing is sacred. There should be an absolute balanced budget in every year and the government should learn to do without 75% of its bureaucracy, outside of the Pentagon and Homeland Security. This is a call for the bankruptcy filing of the federal government and an associated financial turnaround. There is a bitter pill for all to swallow. Learn to live within our means and learn to live without a lot of things. If the US Government had a FICO score, it wouldn't clear 580.
I agree once again, but it does make me curious as to why you found this place so attractive when your values are at odds with our government's. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 34389
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 17, 2012 03:00 PM
No, AG, I don't care about teams. It just greatly troubles me that our country is going down the tubes and if you are intelligent and are a liberal, what about all the people who are not intelligent.
It just makes me feel hopeless. ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 03:28 PM
Ami, You don't know whether our country is going down the tubes or not. None of us do. That's something Rush is telling you. If it does go down the tubes, there will be PLENTY of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle. You don't seem to have any knowledge of the good that liberals are for the country. Nor do you apparently know that the most educated people in our country are overwhelmingly liberal. (I agree that stupid people are a problem, but that's a problem in both parties.) I do think it's all about teams with you...primarily because you've never given me reason not to. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 34389
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 17, 2012 03:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Ami, You don't know whether our country is going down the tubes or not. None of us do. That's something Rush is telling you. If it does go down the tubes, there will be PLENTY of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle. You don't seem to have any knowledge of the good that liberals are for the country. Nor do you apparently know that the most educated people in our country are overwhelmingly liberal. (I agree that stupid people are a problem, but that's a problem in both parties.) I do think it's all about teams with you...primarily because you've never given me reason not to.
Oh My Gosh
You are so blind AG
What is that O'Bomber health care tax gonna do to small business? We ARE small business in the US.
That is one of thousands of ways O'Bomber and his ilk are raping us.------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 04:57 PM
Obamacare will also make it tough on the states as they have to deal with the expansion of Medicaid.AG, well, the US government itself (through transfer payments) is probably the entity with the greatest redistribution of wealth in this country. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 05:36 PM
Ami, when did we start talking Obamacare? It's really frustrating that you continue to stay off topic. For the record, I think small business will adapt. I know that there are all kinds of claims going around, but we'll see the practical reality over the next several years. Will a company not want to hire due to an increased healthcare expense, or conversely will they want to hire knowing that the hiree is already insured? People like looking at one side of the coin to the detriment of the other side.Randall, considering the top 400 richest people in America made their money via the stock market, I'd argue that the stock market is the biggest wealth redistributor. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 07:26 PM
Capital gains includes real estate and other investments, not just stocks. And the top 400 is just a drop in the bucket compared to the relative wealth of this country...and compared to the massive amounts of transfer payments made by the US. Most of the wealthy made it through real estate, though they may invest some of those profits in the stock or commodities markets.IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 3231
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted July 17, 2012 07:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
You've given your reasons for why you believe it shouldn't, and I've shot them all down. Another proclamation doesn't change that.
It's very simple.
You are incessantly wrong. It doesn't matter how many time you try to shoot down because you are wrong, and you refuse to listen so speaking to you is like kicking a concrete wall. Not only am I credentialed, finance is my profession. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 09:13 PM
quote:
Capital gains includes real estate and other investments, not just stocks.
Yes, I know. quote:
And the top 400 is just a drop in the bucket compared to the relative wealth of this country...and compared to the massive amounts of transfer payments made by the US.
I can't get behind that statement. quote:
ost of the wealthy made it through real estate, though they may invest some of those profits in the stock or commodities markets.
False. If you know anything about the richest people of late, you know that it wasn't real estate that made any of them rich. quote:
You are incessantly wrong. It doesn't matter how many time you try to shoot down because you are wrong, and you refuse to listen so speaking to you is like kicking a concrete wall.
We can play the "You are wrong" game all you like. Thus far your arguments have been pretty terrible, especially since you're credentialed and work in finance. I'm constantly finding Conservatives assigning me their traits, and your assertion that I'm the one that is not listening is both false as well as a difficult case to make considering I answered what you said directly. You did not refute the notion that taxing work more than investment distorts the economy in favor of capital, did you? You did not have an answer for why you believe capital gains are taxed twice. Yes, I heard you state that the corporations are taxed, and then the investors are taxed, but that is just the way it is. You are not the corporation, and the corporation is not you. The income to both parties is new to both parties, and therefore it makes sense that both are taxed. All individual income should be taxed. It doesn't matter if you labor for it, or not. If the lottery winner has to pay taxes, so does the investor. You tried making capital gains out as a disincentive for investment, only that's obviously untrue, and that's why so many people engage in it. You said it robs jobs creation and economic growth. Also obviously untrue. With or without capital gains job and economic growth are going to be determined by the market. You spoke about taxing the middle class in preference over the wealthy class, and I answered that one, too. No response from you to my rebuttal. Where exactly are you right, YTA? I'm listening. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 34389
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 17, 2012 09:20 PM
AG
I am not an expert like Ian, but I know truth when I hear it as it resonates with me, even if I am not a financial person like Ian is.------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 09:41 PM
I'm not talking about the 400 richest, AG. I am talking about wealthy people. The number 400 is extremely low. What would classify someone as wealthy? Well, a millionaire is still wealthy in my book. We have lots of them in the US...probably over a million of them. And most made it through real estate, just as I stated.IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 10:33 PM
My guess was way off. The US has 3.1 million millionaires. That data was from 2010. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 17, 2012 10:45 PM
Wow, 8.2 million millionaire households in the US in 2011. The economy has been good for some people. The housing crisis is probably creating more real estate millionaires now than ever before, and these net worth figures do not include their home values in the valulation (which is where most of the middle class used to store their net worth) or collectibles. In 2012, the number of millionaires in the US fell, while that number increased in other countries. For example, the number of millionaires rose by 15 percent in India in 2012. North America used to have more millionaires, but now Asia has slightly hedged past us.IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 3231
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted July 18, 2012 10:00 AM
Randall,I'm going to bow out of Global Unity 2. I seem to degenerate every thread I am in and I don't intend to engage in verbal volleyball. Showdowns are boring and unproductive.
IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 10:30 AM
Verbal showdowns are okay in this Forum. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 11:54 AM
Ami, I'm sure that all of feel like the truth resonates with us. The only way to untangle ideas presented as truth is to dissect them, and see if they actually hold up against reality. Conservative ideas often can't stand the test of reality. quote:
My guess was way off. The US has 3.1 million millionaires. That data was from 2010.
Yeah, there's no doubt millions of wealthy people in our nation, and the wealth they've accumulated have come through various means. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 04:43 PM
I stand corrected. The greatest wealth redistribution in history is going to be carbon taxes. Control carbon, and you control life. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 34389
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 18, 2012 04:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Randall,I'm going to bow out of Global Unity 2. I seem to degenerate every thread I am in and I don't intend to engage in verbal volleyball. Showdowns are boring and unproductive.
No, we need someone JUST like you  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 06:24 PM
 @ Randall... IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 19940
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 06:29 PM
All you have to do is follow the money.  IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 6285
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 18, 2012 06:34 PM
No, all you have to do is follow the money if you really want to find out if Inhofe actually knows something, or if he's putting on a show on behalf of the oil industry. Virtually all of the points you want to have on the subject are moot. You're still waiting for a breakthrough that passes muster (as I said on the other thread). The conspiracy is on the Conservative opinion side, not on the scientific side. IP: Logged |
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