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Author Topic:   With Obamacare, There will be No Decent Doctors
Ami Anne
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posted July 26, 2012 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am as natural health a person as anyone, but sometimes you need a doctor. The caliber of doctors will go down to a low level, as people are not going to be willing to go into debt for medical school and then come out and answer to the government.

People don't stop to consider this fact. Medicine is really broken in many ways, but you do want an intelligent and qualified person when you need one.
O'Bomber care is not the way to fix the brokenness of the medical system.

I don't know how one could, but O'Bomber will make going to the doctor like renewing your license.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 26, 2012 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That post was purely speculative.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 26, 2012 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
That post was purely speculative.


What does the government do well

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jwhop
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posted July 26, 2012 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only thing spectulative is that leftists are a form of intelligent life.

As usual, Ami is right. And as usual, the usual suspect is wrong!

Monday, 02 January 2012 15:05 ObamaCare: More Government, Fewer Doctors
Written by Bob Adelmann


After asking 501 practicing physicians about the future of health care in the United States, The Deloitte Center for Health Solutions’ conclusions were hardly surprising: under ObamaCare:

• More people will demand medical care.

• There will be fewer doctors to handle them.

• Those who do will get paid less.

• Those who do will be subject to increasingly onerous regulations.

In its heavy-handed attempt to provide medical coverage to some 34 million Americans, ObamaCare is going to provide it to them for free. But those “free” services are predictably going to increase the demand for medical care while simultaneously reducing the number of doctors available to supply it.

According to the Deloitte study, only one out of four doctors think ObamaCare will reduce healthcare costs, while half of them expect access to such care to be increasingly restricted. Those surveyed think there will be fewer hospitals and fewer physicians. And many of those remaining are likely to take administrative positions in the healthcare industry rather than continuing to provide hands-on primary care of patients.

Three-quarters think that as primary care doctors get busier, patients needing immediate attention will increasingly be sent to emergency rooms, which is likely to extend waiting times there as well. Four out of five are certain that it will be increasingly difficult for their patients to obtain appointments on a timely basis, and those patients will increasingly be forced to seek the services of “mid-level” health care from nurse practitioners and para-medical providers.

The doctors surveyed also are persuaded that because of ObamaCare the “best and brightest” coming into the workforce will likely avoid the healthcare industry. The survey also showed that the older doctors are increasingly looking forward to retiring rather than having to deal with the mass of new regulations and restrictions that are coming from ObamaCare.

This study reflects doctors’ attitudes shown in similar recent studies. For instance, the Fairfield County Medical Association in Connecticut looked at the pending cut in physicians’ reimbursements. In May of 2010 doctors were anticipating a pay cut of 21 percent. If they were implemented at the time, Fairfield estimated that 41 percent of county doctors would stop taking new Medicare patients, and one out of every four would drop Medicare altogether.

Those cuts weren’t implemented at the time, but delayed until January 1, 2012, and the reduction in Medicare reimbursement isn’t 21 percent but 29 percent. Physicians Practice estimated that a physician grossing $1 million from Medicare with 60 percent overhead would see his net income drop by almost 75 percent. As noted, “All medical practices are impacted by Medicare cuts, as most [doctors] tie their fee schedules to Medicare…Cuts to reimbursement will reduce your net income…and the quality of patient care your practice can provide.”

ObamaCare’s regulations are stifling those who are determined to stay in the health care industry. There’s the “Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute” which will examine the “clinical effectiveness of medical treatments, procedures, drugs, and medical devices [resulting in] incentives [or] penalties [or more] regulatory requirements.”

There’s the Independent Payment Advisory Board that’s tasked with reducing “the per capital growth rate in Medicare spending [which] would doubtless reduce Medicare physician payment[s]” even further.

And there’s the Physician Quality Reporting Initiative which will require that physicians be “burdened with [additional] time-consuming compliance and reporting requirements.”

Another study, this one done by Athena Health, showed that 79 percent of physicians are “less optimistic about the future of medicine [while] 66 percent indicated that they would consider dropping out of government health programs, and 53 percent would consider opting out of insurance altogether.”

As Robert E. Moffit, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Health Policy at The Heritage Foundation, put it: “ObamaCare…entrenches the worst parts of today’s third-party payment system.”

ObamaCare, if it is enacted in all of its grotesque manifestations, will guarantee higher health care costs (direct and indirect), reduce incentives for physicians to practice medicine, reduce the supply of health care services, and increase the demand for that dwindling supply. None of it makes financial sense, either, as it is not driven by market incentives (profits) but by political expediency and social policy. The best thing that can be said about ObamaCare, if implemented, is that it won’t last long. Using the politically correct term, ObamaCare won’t be “sustainable.” In the meantime, don’t get sick.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/1957-obamacare-more-government-fewer-doctors

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Ami Anne
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posted July 26, 2012 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
As usual, Ami is right. And as usual, the usual suspect is wrong!

ROLFL

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AcousticGod
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posted July 26, 2012 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy to have earned a thumbs up from the person consistently worst on accuracy on this forum?

Speculation is speculation guys. That's it. There is no article to help you make it less than speculation. Certainly not one that polled just 501 doctors.

Memphis Doctor on Obamacare: Put Politics Aside, Focus On Facts

.....A doctor's perspective on ObamaCare and the Supreme Court

    It’s hard to know what to make of these findings. According to Deloitte’s supporting materials, of the 16,537 physicians the firm contacted, 501 completed the survey. That’s a response rate of barely 3 percent. It’s not clear whom this tiny sample really represents.

    A better way to gauge these issues is to examine how physicians and the organizations which represent them actually behaved during last year’s health reform. One wouldn’t know from Pipes’ article that the American Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American College of Surgeons, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Society of Anesthesiologists, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American College of Cardiology all endorsed last year’s health reform. These groups represent hundreds of thousands of physicians across a wide range of medical sub-specialties.

    A key reason for these endorsements was the widespread recognition that our current health care system works poorly from the perspective of both physicians and patients – and the understanding that the new law was an important step in building a more effective health care system.

    No, Doctors Don't Hate Obamacare

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juniperb
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posted July 26, 2012 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regarding Obamacare... just thought I`d throw this out there:

“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes,”
President Obama, September 12, 2008

When does your home become part of your health care? After 2012!

Your vote counts big time in 2012, make sure you and all your friends and family know about this!

HOME SALES TAX

I thought you might find this interesting.
The National Association of Realtors is all over this and working to get it repealed before it takes effect. But, I am very pleased we aren't the only ones who know about this ploy to steal billions from unsuspecting homeowners.

How many realtors do you think will vote Democratic in 2012?

Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it? That's $3,800 on a $100,000 home, etc. When did this happen? It's in the health care bill, -- and it goes into effect in 2013. Why 2013? Could it be so that it doesn’t come to light until after the 2012 elections? So, this is ‘change you can believe in’?

Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% sales tax.

If you sell a $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation, -- who often downsize their homes. Does this make your November, 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware that this was in the Health Care bill? Guess what; you aren't alone! There are more than a few members of Congress that weren't aware of it either.

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales


This new ObamaCare tax is the first time the government will apply a 3.8 percent tax on unearned income. This new tax on home sales and unearned income and other Medicare taxes raise taxes more than $210 billion to pay for ObamaCare. The National Association of Realtors called this new Medicare tax on unearned income “destructive” and “ill-advised” and warned it would hurt job creation.
http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home

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AcousticGod
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posted July 26, 2012 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

There Is No Obamacare Tax On Most Home Sales. Really. (Forbes)

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jwhop
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posted July 26, 2012 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some things never change...like the usual suspects ability to comprehend what he reads. Imagine, the usual suspect thinks the was for him.

Imagine too that the usual suspect believes that finding one...that's right 1 doctor who thinks O'BomberCare is the best thing since the invention of sliced bread carries equal weight to the statistical report of more than 500 doctors who oppose O'BomberCare.

I suppose it backs up the word on the street that O'Bomber Kool-Aid swillers become irrational and lose their ability to correctly analyze data.

Of course Ami remains right about O'BomberCare and the usual suspect finds himself where he can always be found...wrong again.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 26, 2012 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a wholy stupid post. Talk about being out of touch, and unable to read!

Where was your reading comprehension, dear Jwhop, when I posted all the groups that supported the reform act? I put the words up there for you. That whole list of doctor's associations representing thousands of doctors. Not to mention the obviously stupid attempt on your part to make 500 doctors out as significant in a field of thousands.

Wrong... As if you could determine such a thing.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 26, 2012 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Some things never change...like the usual suspects ability to comprehend what he reads. Imagine, the usual suspect thinks the was for him.


*slaps self*

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jwhop
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posted July 27, 2012 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The usual suspect doesn't know the difference between real..actual doctors and groups who supposedly speak for doctors...and sometimes take political positions diametrically opposed to the views of their members who are the actual medical practictioners.

Real doctors oppose O'BomberCare.

Oh and by the way, the 3.8% tax the O'BomberCare muggers have placed on the sale of residential real estate IS NOT indexed for inflation. Last time the Socialist demoscats tried to rip off high income earners we got the "Alternative Minimum Tax". Soon, because of inflation, lots and lots and lots of middle class citizens were caught in the Socialist's web of deceit, lies and ripoffs and have to pay the tax.

One other thing on this piece of crap real estate tax contained in the even bigger piece of crap O'BomberCare; $500,000 isn't much in the residential real estate market these days. In some parts of the US, $500,000 will buy you a very modest 2-3 bedroom, 1-2 bath, 1250sqft home on a tiny lot.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 27, 2012 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More poor comprehension. The tax is bogus.

Further, making an unsupported claim about doctor's opinions doesn't quite make your argument.

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jwhop
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posted July 27, 2012 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When doctors make statements about their opposition to O'BomberCare...those statements are not "unsupported".

You really shouldn't dabble in things you know nothing about. If that rule was rigidly enforced against you acoustic, you'd have nothing to say whatsoever.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 27, 2012 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You said, "Real doctors oppose O'BomberCare." Obviously not ALL real doctors oppose Obamacare. It was and is a ridiculous unsupported statement. It's plain for anyone to see.

Show me the doctors quitting in protest. Show me the insurance company's disdain. You can't, because it's just not there. It's imaginary...just like MOST of your positions here.

Talk about knowing nothing....

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jwhop
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posted July 27, 2012 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If 2 real doctors...as opposed to bureaucrat administrators at the AMA oppose O'BomberCare then...the statement you complain about is perfectly valid.

It must be a terrible handicap for you to not have even a miniscule grasp of the English language.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 27, 2012 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're telling me that you're so dumb that you believe the associations I posted aren't lead by doctors.

______________________________
AMA - James L. Madara, MD, Chief Executive Officer & Executive Vice President

_____________________________
ACP -

  • President – David L. Bronson, MD, FACP
  • Chair, Board of Regents – Phyllis A. Guze, MD, FACP
  • Treasurer - Dennis Schaberg, MD, MACP
  • Immediate Past President – Virginia L. Hood, MBBS, MPH, MACP
  • Immediate Past Chair, Board of Regents – Yul D. Ejnes, MD, MACP
  • President-elect – Molly Cooke, MD, FACP
    Chair-elect, Board of Regents – Charles Cutler, MD, FACP
  • EVP/CEO - Steven E. Weinberger, MD, FACP
    ___________________________

    AAFP:

  • Douglas E. Henley, M.D., FAAFP -- Executive Vice President and Chief Executive Officer

  • Daniel J. Ostergaard, M.D. -- Vice
    President for Health of the Public and Interprofessional Activities

    _________________________

    ACS: Executive Director—David B. Hoyt, MD, FACS, Chicago, IL

    Officers:

    President—Patricia J. Numann, MD, FACS, Syracuse, NY
    First Vice-President—Robert R. Bahnson, MD, FACS, Columbus, OH
    Secretary—Courtney M. Townsend Jr., MD, FACS, Galveston, TX
    Treasurer—Andrew L. Warshaw, MD, FACS, Boston, MA

    Officers-Elect: (Take office October 2012)
    President-Elect—A. Brent Eastman, MD, FACS, San Diego, CA
    First Vice-President-Elect—R. Phillip Burns, MD, FACS, Chattanooga, TN
    Second Vice-President-Elect—John M. Daly, MD, FACS, Philadelphia, PA

    _____________________________

    You get my point. Don't make a bad argument worse by supposing the opposite of common sense is true. Of course associations that represent THOUSANDS of doctors are going to be headed by doctors. Anyone that believes a volunteer sample of 500 doctors from 16,000 questionaires is a superior sample to the thousands of doctors represented in assocations that backed reform is something other than smart. Like I said, there has been no doctor rebellion. Even within the ranks of these associations, there's been no big drama.

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  • jwhop
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    posted July 29, 2012 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    Yes, the usual suspects still have their lips firmly attached to O'Bomber's butt but even their flagship leftist newspaper admits what O'Bomber Kool-Aid swillers refuse to admit.

    Ami is right. O'BomberCare is going to result in a doctor shortage. Millions more people...including illegal aliens will have "health insurance" but they won't have doctors to deliver "HEALTH CARE" for them.

    The usual suspects still haven't deciphered the difference between "health insurance" and "health care". But then, those who are neurological flat-liners are seldom able to decipher anything and those are Bomber's prime supporters. You know, birds of a feather with O'Bomber, another neurological flat-liner.

    Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law
    By ANNIE LOWREY and ROBERT PEAR
    July 28, 2012

    RIVERSIDE, Calif. — In the Inland Empire, an economically depressed region in Southern California, President Obama’s health care law is expected to extend insurance coverage to more than 300,000 people by 2014. But coverage will not necessarily translate into care: Local health experts doubt there will be enough doctors to meet the area’s needs. There are not enough now.

    Other places around the country, including the Mississippi Delta, Detroit and suburban Phoenix, face similar problems. The Association of American Medical Colleges estimates that in 2015 the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than needed. And that number will more than double by 2025, as the expansion of insurance coverage and the aging of baby boomers drive up demand for care. Even without the health care law, the shortfall of doctors in 2025 would still exceed 100,000......
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/health/policy/too-few-doctors-in-many-us-communities.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065

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    katatonic
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    posted July 29, 2012 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some things never change...like the usual suspects ability to comprehend what he reads. Imagine, the usual suspect thinks the was for him.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    *slaps self*

    i agree, ami, it is hysterical when someone so rudely and conceitedly tries to shame someone for the very thing they have done.

    ag understood perfectly who the thumbs up was for, but jwhop missed the point completely.

    i'm not sure who ami was laughing at but i can guess it wasn't jwhop! still a yoke's a yoke!

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    Ami Anne
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    posted July 29, 2012 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    quote:
    Yes, the suspects still have their lips firmly attached to O'Bomber's butt


    They make it so easy

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    Ami Anne
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    posted July 29, 2012 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    AG
    Sheeple is someone who believes mainstream media and goes to the AMA for O'Bombercare info.
    Do you believe the fox when he says he wants to watch the hen house?
    Don't answer

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    AcousticGod
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    posted July 30, 2012 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    Ami, if you understood the concept of "sheeple," you'd know that YOU fit the bill. You want to impeach mainstream media whilst championing Rush Limbaugh. You don't seem to understand the extreme irony of your position.

    I didn't go to the AMA for information on Obamacare. I posted the professional medical groups that were for the reform act. Then I went back, and proved that they were doctors, because Jwhop lamely wanted to make them out as simply bureaucrats.

    I don't know the future of healthcare in America, but I also know that YOU and JWHOP don't either. We don't have crystal balls.

    Be smarter, or I'm gonna be tougher on you.

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    Ami Anne
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    posted July 30, 2012 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    quote:
    Originally posted by AcousticGod:
    Ami, if you understood the concept of "sheeple," you'd know that YOU fit the bill. You want to impeach mainstream media whilst championing Rush Limbaugh. You don't seem to understand the extreme irony of your position.

    I didn't go to the AMA for information on Obamacare. I posted the professional medical groups that were [b]for the reform act. Then I went back, and proved that they were doctors, because Jwhop lamely wanted to make them out as simply bureaucrats.

    I don't know the future of healthcare in America, but I also know that YOU and JWHOP don't either. We don't have crystal balls.

    Be smarter, or I'm gonna be tougher on you.[/B]



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    jwhop
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    posted July 30, 2012 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
    "I don't know the future of healthcare in America"...acoustic

    Finally, a true statement from the usual suspect.

    A reasonable, rational person who came to this conclusion would sit the hell down and shut the hell up...AND let those who can read the handwriting on the wall get on with the repeal of this monstrous pile of crap called O'BomberCare.

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    AcousticGod
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    posted July 30, 2012 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

    You're ridiculous.

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