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Author Topic:   Very Cool Speech By Ryan
Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2012 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It will be hard for O'Bomber and his ilk to get anything on Ryan.
He is quite a guy. Go Paul

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katatonic
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posted August 30, 2012 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
strange for a gemini to have NO critical thinking instincts. fact-gathering is a great pastime...which supposedly is second-nature to gems...

“There’s no delicate way to say this. Last night, Paul Ryan lied – repeatedly, knowingly, and brazenly,”...

Democrats pounced instantly last night on an implication Ryan made President Barack Obama is to blame for the shuttering of a GM plant in his home town. In fact, the plant closure was announced in 2008, while Obama was still only a senator. They’re also taking Ryan to task for some revisionist history when it comes to the Simpson-Bowles bipartisan deficit commission on which he served as House Budget chairman.

“President Obama has added more debt than any other president before him, and more than all the troubled governments of Europe combined. One president, one term, $5 trillion in new debt. He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing,’ Ryan said last night.

What he didn’t say is that all three House Republicans on that commission voted against that “urgent report,” blocking its mandatory implementation – and he was one of them in his capacity as House Budget chairman,

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/dems-say-paul-ryan-lied-brazenly-over-debt-commission-vote-gm-plant-in-vp-acceptance-speech.html/

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AcousticGod
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posted August 30, 2012 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everywhere I look people are falling over themselves with the fact that Ryan made some major factual blunders.

Fact-checking 6 claims in Paul Ryan's convention speech - CBS

Did Paul Ryan bend the truth? And does it matter? - Washington Post

Fact checking the GOP convention’s second night - Washington Post

Paul Ryan stokes passion among GOP, fact-checkers - MSNBC

Paul Ryan's factual errors noted by many, but are voters listening? - LA Times

Paul Ryan's factual shortcuts in convention speech - Christian Science Monitor

The list goes on and on. I'm sure my usual Factcheck.org and Politifact checked his stuff as well. There's plenty of fact checking to go around after his speech last night.

(By the way, I just googled "Paul Ryan" alone to get those results. If people weren't all over fact-checking this guy I'd have specified that I was looking for fact-checking in order to have a better chance of finding results like this.)

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PixieJane
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posted August 30, 2012 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even FOX News slammed him:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/

quote:
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.

The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.

Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling.

Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.

Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.

Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.

Elections should be about competing based on your record in the past and your vision for the future, not competing to see who can get away with the most lies and distortions without voters noticing or bother to care. Both parties should hold themselves to that standard. Republicans should be ashamed that there was even one misrepresentation in Ryan’s speech but sadly, there were many


quote:
Ryan may have helped solve some of the likeability problems facing Romney, but ultimately by trying to deceive voters about basic facts and trying to distract voters from his own record, Ryan’s speech caused a much larger problem for himself and his running mate.

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katatonic
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posted August 30, 2012 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in fact bush praised the closure of that plant as "good business", trimming fat, etc. maybe it was, but ryan did his darndest to get government funds to keep it open...

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2012 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
strange for a gemini to have NO critical thinking instincts.

Critical thinking is my middle name, Gurl.

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jwhop
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posted August 31, 2012 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great speech by Paul Ryan.

I wouldn't blame Joe "Plugs" O'Biden if he fails to show up at the VP debates and sends a doctor's excuse for his absence.

"Plese excuse Joe Plugs O'Biden from the Vice Presidential Debates. He's in a catatonic state and cannot be present".
White House Quack

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AcousticGod
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posted September 01, 2012 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Theme of the night: We Can Change It

Fitting.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 01, 2012 12:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwhop:
Great speech by Paul Ryan.

I wouldn't blame Joe "Plugs" O'Biden if he fails to show up at the VP debates and sends a doctor's excuse for his absence.

"Plese excuse Joe Plugs O'Biden from the Vice Presidential Debates. He's in a catatonic state and cannot be present".
White House Quack



Doctors excuse. Sore throat

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katatonic
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posted September 01, 2012 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sounds unlike biden to me, he is more likely to go where others think he shouldn't than to hide from a challenge.

it is unsurprising to me that a scorp with sun, merc and venus in 12th would come out with apparently unconsidered remarks...which often hit the nail straight on the head, even though it is unfashionable and unlike politicians to be so blatant.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 01, 2012 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
sounds unlike biden to me, he is more likely to go where others think he shouldn't than to hide from a challenge.

it is unsurprising to me that a scorp with sun, merc and venus in 12th would come out with apparently unconsidered remarks...which often hit the nail straight on the head, even though it is unfashionable and unlike politicians to be so blatant.


Many of his remarks were planned, but then he acts like they are gaffes when they fail.

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AcousticGod
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posted September 01, 2012 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's speculation, Ami.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 01, 2012 10:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
That's speculation, Ami.

Biden read from a prepared speech for the "people in chains" thing.

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AcousticGod
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posted September 02, 2012 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, and if you knew the context, and about Republicans use of the terms shackle and unshackle with regard to financial regulation, you'd understand that there wasn't really a gaffe there. The financial sector screwed the economy, and Washington put in place regulations to protect people. If removing those regulations amounts to "unshackling" the economy, then guess who gets put in a precarious position again: the American people. "Unshackle" the banks, reshackle the consumer. It's a pretty easy concept. That's why the Administration refused an apology on the matter.

Boehner Column: Liberating our Economy from the Shackles of Government

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katatonic
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posted September 02, 2012 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
apparently unconsidered remarks...which often hit the nail straight on the head, even though it is unfashionable and unlike politicians to be so blatant.

i didn't see him reading, so i don't know, but i was not trying to pretend that he speaks unconsciously. the english language is so precise when one reads the words. i said "apparently" unconsidered remarks and that is what i meant.

he was not talking to the black section of the audience, so all the conservative pundits' attempts to paint this as a racist remark are as lame as those jwhop complains about on the other side.

jwhop himself, in two or three posts, changed his description of that audience from "about half black" to "predominantly black" to make the remark seem more aimed at visceral feelings about slavery than it was.

obama is right, biden says things most people won't. but that doesn't make him a fool.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 02, 2012 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
[b]apparently unconsidered remarks...which often hit the nail straight on the head, even though it is unfashionable and unlike politicians to be so blatant.

i didn't see him reading, so i don't know, but i was not trying to pretend that he speaks unconsciously. the english language is so precise when one reads the words. i said "apparently" unconsidered remarks and that is what i meant.

he was not talking to the black section of the audience, so all the conservative pundits' attempts to paint this as a racist remark are as lame as those jwhop complains about on the other side.

jwhop himself, in two or three posts, changed his description of that audience from "about half black" to "predominantly black" to make the remark seem more aimed at visceral feelings about slavery than it was.

obama is right, biden says things most people won't. but that doesn't make him a fool.[/B]


teleprompter

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katatonic
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posted September 02, 2012 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
when i say i didn't see him reading, ami, i didn't "see" him at all, i heard radio recordings only. that doesn't change the visible "propaganda-making" jwhop indulged in right here on the board.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 02, 2012 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
when i say i didn't see him reading, ami, i didn't "see" him at all, i heard radio recordings only. that doesn't change the visible "propaganda-making" jwhop indulged in right here on the board.


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AcousticGod
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posted September 03, 2012 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sep 3, 2012 7:41pm
Fact Check: Paul Ryan’s Jimmy Carter Comments

GREENVILLE, N.C. — Paul Ryan is not only the GOP vice presidential nominee, he’s also the House Budget Chair, and obsessed with data and numbers, but despite his passion for math, some numbers he threw out with a new attack line today need some fact checking.

Let’s start at the beginning. In comparing President Obama to Jimmy Carter, Ryan said in July 1980 the unemployment rate was 7.8 percent and “for the past 42 months it’s been above 8 percent under Barack Obama’s failed leadership.”

Both parts of this sentence are true according to the Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics, but in July 1983, when Ronald Reagan was president, unemployment was at 9.4 percent. In July 1982 it was higher at 9.8 percent.

In July 1992, when George H.W. Bush was president, unemployment was at 7.7 percent.

Is what Ryan said factually correct? Yes, but it leaves out some important data.

The next statement Ryan made was that in 1980 “330,000 businesses filed for bankruptcy. Last year, under President Obama’s failed leadership, 1.4 million businesses field for bankruptcy.”

This is not true. According to American Bankruptcy Institute, under Carter 331,264 businesses and non-businesses filed for bankruptcy. That number includes not just businesses, but personal bankruptcies as well. In 1980, there were 43,694 business bankruptcies and 287, 570 non-business bankruptcies.

Ryan also got it wrong with regard to the number of business bankruptcies last year. In 2011, there were 1, 410, 653 total bankruptcies. Of that number 47,806 were business bankruptcies and 1,362,847 were non-business bankruptcies.

So did he misspeak or purposefully manipulate the data to make it sound worse?

“He obviously misspoke, but it’s still an apples to apples comparison,” Ryan spokesman Brendan Buck said. “The point remains: bankruptcies are up dramatically under President Obama compared to the Carter years.”

Yet it’s important to note that bankruptcies are down dramatically under President Obama, compared to the Bush years.

Business bankruptcies hit a record 71,549 in 1991, when George H.W. Bush was president, second only to 1985, under Reagan, when 71,277 businesses filed.

A record number of Americans — more than 2 million — filed for personal bankruptcy in 2005.

Ryan’s next line looks to be correct: “Take a look at people who are having a hard time making their mortgage payments: 77,000 delinquent mortgages by the time Jimmy Carter left office; under President Obama, 3 million.”

According to the Mortgage Bankers Association, in the third quarter of 1980 there were 76,885 delinquent mortgages, while in the second quarter of this year there were 3,107,247.

Politicians are known to both misspeak and fudge the data, but not all are as close to the numbers as Ryan, who in Congress studies them himself, instead of leaning on aides to do it for him.

ABC News’ Susanna Kim, Elizabeth Hartfield, and Chris Good contributed to this report.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/fact-check-paul-ryans-jimmy-carter-comments/

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katatonic
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posted September 04, 2012 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
correct or not numbers can mislead.

let's not forget that in 1977 there were 220 million people in the US. in 2011 there were 311 million.

that is a difference of nearly 100 million and alters the impact of numbers used significantly.

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katatonic
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posted September 04, 2012 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dp

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AcousticGod
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posted September 06, 2012 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Speech Fans,

How about that speech last night? I called it last night as I watched it: Bill Clinton was giving a speech for the fact checkers. His report card from the fact checkers put him way ahead of the Republican ticket. God help Republicans if Bill hits the road for this campaign.

I just saw the first line of this thread again:

quote:
It will be hard for O'Bomber and his ilk to get anything on Ryan.

Can't get much further from the truth than that.

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jwhop
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posted September 06, 2012 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, Ryan is a numbers guy. His numbers are right and his facts are right.

Poor Joe "Plugs" just can't seen to stay out of trouble. Telling a mostly black audience that Republicans want to put them "back in chains" was the most stupid thing said in the silly season campaign.

Of course, the usual suspects defend Joe "Plugs" because everyone knows what Joe "Plugs" said is absolutely true.

Oh wait, wasn't Abraham Lincoln a Republican President? Oh wait, weren't the segregated southern states democrat states? Oh wait, weren't all those southern Governors who resisted integration democrats? Oh wait, wasn't the Grand Poo-Bah of the KKK and Speaker of the House, Robert KKK Byrd, a democrat? Oh wait, didn't a higher percentage of Republicans than democrats vote for both the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act?

If you said YES to every single one of those questions...give yourself a gold star!

And, give Joe "Plugs" O'Biden a swift kick in the ass for being a loud mouthed liar.

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katatonic
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posted September 06, 2012 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you can't even remember your own gaffes, jwhop, who would take your criticisms seriously?

"in a room about half black"

"in a predominantly black crowd"

these two sentences are not equivalent. they ARE racist as all get out, ironic considering the bite-wing media was trying to tar biden with racism...

it was a southern crowd (in the south) hence the y'all; trite but not racially aimed. and the chains for individuals resulting from UNchaining wall street again...just a little (simple) metaphor..too far over your head?

as to your continued attempt to equate the parties of a hundred years ago with today's, isn't it you who is always harping on the changes in them?

the south is more republican than democrat these days, we already went over that several days ago, complete with pictures for those who are reading challenged.

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AcousticGod
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posted September 06, 2012 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I guess he successfully got us off the topic of Bill Clinton's speech last night.

Jwhop, we have already dealt with all of these things. Trying to spin Ryan as accurate in a thread listing just a handful of the fact-checking articles his speech inspired is ill-advised at best.

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