posted November 14, 2012 05:01 PM            

Does the punishment fit the crime?

And how do you feel about the fact that in today's America, your secret business might be aggressively drudged up and exposed before the world?
http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-national-s ecurity/surveillance-and-security-lessons-petraeus-scandal

posted November 14, 2012 10:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
I read the WSJ and NYT articles. It wasn't initiated to spy on Petraeus. That was the inadvertent outcome. There was national security concern, but ultimately they didn't find any criminal activity.

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I think what the spies were doing is criminal, even if it's legal in the technical sense.

They pursued this woman as if she were a mass murderer or something:

quote:

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The Wall Street Journal similarly revealed that “agents spent weeks piecing together who may have sent [the emails]. They used metadata footprints left by the emails to determine what locations they were sent from. They matched the places, including hotels, where Ms. Broadwell was during the times the emails were sent.” NBC added further details, revealing that “it took agents a while to figure out the source. They did that by finding out where the messages were sent from—which cities, which Wi-Fi locations in hotels. That gave them names, which they then checked against guest lists from other cities and hotels, looking for common names.”

Based on these reports, it seems that Ms. Broadwell did at least avoid the common mistake of sending sensitive emails from her residential Internet connection. However, she did not, it seems, take affirmative steps to shield her IP address (such as by using Tor or a privacy-preserving VPN service). Instead, she apparently logged in to her email accounts from public WiFi networks, such as those in hotels. Had she sent just one email, she might have been able to at least maintain plausible deniability. However, each new hotel (and associated IP login record) reduced the anonymity set of potential suspects. By the second or third hotel, it is likely that the list of intersecting names from the various guest lists contained just a single name: Ms. Broadwell’s.

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From ACLU link above.

Then they exposed her behavior to the whole world.

(Edited)

posted November 15, 2012 10:13 AM            

quote:

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What do you think? Did Petraeus commit an actual crime by cheating on his wife? Was the government justified in tracking down his mistress and exposing her?

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A couple of things I believe are important here.

Petraeus is not an ordinary citizen and had super power and classified material. The mistress also had access to classified information. The rub here is both could have compromised the security of the info.

There is more to this story and I am watching as it unfolds.

quote:

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And how do you feel about the fact that in today's America, your secret business might be aggressively drudged up and exposed before the world?

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I don`t think anyone is pleased by this.

There have been spies and spying since the dawning of time; it has been stepped up a notch with technology.

I abhor the need for Patriot Act and it`s implications... yet have an understanding of the need for it. A dichotomy for me

It`s here and functioning so we should all be aware and nix the secret business we wouldn`t wish published.

Simple but true.

posted November 15, 2012 10:29 AM            

quote:

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Former New Jersey Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano wrote an op-ed for the Washington Times Wednesday in which he said Petraeus was clearly forced to resign his post in an effort to keep him quiet.

"In the modern era, office-holders with forgiving spouses simply do not resign from powerful jobs because of a temporary, non-criminal, consensual adult sexual liaison, as the history of the FDR, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ and Clinton presidencies attest. So, why is Gen. Petraeus different?" Napolitano wrote. "Someone wants to silence him."

Napolitano offered no guesses as to what those pressuring Petraeus might be hoping to suppress.

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posted November 15, 2012 01:54 PM            

But one thing I do know is I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. The guy has long made trouble for people in his promotion of "spiritual fitness" in the military and headed a spy agency (but was so stupid that he got caught by using his own IP address). Perhaps the government was wrong to do what it did but so was Petraeus and this is just him getting a taste of his own bitter medicine (what some call karma).

posted November 15, 2012 02:44 PM            

*EDIT
Her security clearance has now been taken away, as has the military base pass of the Tampa socialite Jill Kelley.

posted November 15, 2012 02:57 PM            

Here's what I understand about how/why the investigation was started from watching discussions on the Charlie Rose show.

In May 2012, Gen John Allen, friend of the Tampa socialite Jill Kelley, received an e-mail (later found to have been sent by Gen Petraeus's mistress, Paula Broadwell) warning him that Jill Kelley was up to "no good". Thinking that this was a joke by Jill Kelley herself, Gen Allen told her (Jill Kelley) about the e-mail. They were exchanging 12-15 e-mails per day.

In June 2012 Jill Kelley received 4 threatening e-mails from different accounts. Alarmed/pi**ed off, she asked a friend at the FBI to look into this, little realizing that it would backfire on her. So the whole thing started as an investigation into her criminal complaint of having received threatening e-mails from someone unknown.

After looking into it, the FBI found Paula Broadwell to be the sender. Further investigation into Broadwell's account allowed them to discover her association with Gen Petraeus. Because she'd had such a close association with the Gen in Afghanistan, the FBI looked into whether any classified info had been leaked. When they found no evidence of it, they wound down the investigation, reporting this (thro' the media).

By this time Petraeus had resigned. However, what is puzzling is after reporting that nothing untoward had happened as far as national security is concerned, the FBI raided Broadwell's house in the middle of the night.

This is where I suspect that the republican party had a hand in upping the investigation, to include Gen Allen. Because the FBI person who found Jill Kelley and Gen Allen exchanging a strangely high # of e-mails on a daily basis, informed the republican party about this (he thought that if he told the democratic party about it, they might try and hush it up).

So I think what started out as an investigation into threatening e-mails (between two women) that were seemingly unrelated to Gen Petraeus, spread to an investigation of whether classified info had been leaked by Gen Petraeus, spread further into whether Gen Allen has leaked classified info to Jill Kelley during his copious e-mail exchange on 20,000 pages with her (this one's still ongoing so Gen Allen's nomination as Supreme Commander of Allied Forces is on hold till this is completed).

I think there are two reasons this has gone so far.

1) The 2 generals are in high enough positions as to warrant a closer look at their activities--"pillow talk" in the case of Gen Petraeus.

2) The republican party (most likely their base) wants to politicize this matter as much as they can, for no other reason than to create obstacles/distractions in the Prez's attempts to achieve results in his second term. 53% of Americans already feel that if the problems facing the country are not resolved, the Republican Party will be to blame.

Re: whether Petraeus committed a crime by having an affair, no.

Is he morally irresponsible as a married man and did he violate the military code of conduct becoming an officer? Of course.

But as the Prez stressed in his first news conference after the election ... this is more a personal matter between Petraeus and his wife (who's supposedly furious), and should not reflect his exemplary military career.

posted November 16, 2012 07:45 AM            

I didn't know that the Uniform Code of Military Justice has in fact outlawed adultery for the military.

Why Military Is Held to Higher Personal Standards

It's also being speculated that Kelley may have been having an affair with the FBI agent she requested the investigation from. Now I wonder how the FBI works. Do friends of FBI agents have the FBI at their beck and call, or is there an actual protocol that they have to go through to get an investigation?

posted November 16, 2012 08:25 AM            

1) Yes, technically adultery USA crime for military members under the UCMJ.
Not an issue for Petreaus if the affair was only active while he was in the CIA, but perhaps an issue for Broadwell (a Reserve officer, right?).

2) You have no secrets - and no expectation of personal secrecy - when you have a clearance, especially at Petreaus' level.
You can piddle around, but you have to tell the appropriate people (believe it or not).
There can be NO basis by which you can be blackmailed.
None.

posted November 16, 2012 04:32 PM            

Others involved in the investigation, aside from the FBI and the CIA are the OMG, the WTF, and the WORLD

The OMG and WTF investigations are still ongoing.

But the WORLD has laid out its conclusions most effectively in the following hilarious video clip ... in the hope that the CIA can eventually find the "door" out of this mess so that it can get back to its business of spying. Just in case Iran decides to throw a rock at someone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3UL_mVHHI

posted November 16, 2012 04:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Yeah, watch it all in a movie coming to your local theater soon

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And also look out for a new reality TV show--

The Real Generals of D.C. and their Civilian Groupies.

Tho I'm quite sure Honey Boo Boo will continue to remain # 1 in TV ratings

posted November 16, 2012 04:39 PM            

Like right now I'm frustrated that Gen Petraeus has so many consecutive vowels in his name. I think it's time to start investigating that.

posted November 16, 2012 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Others involved in the investigation, aside from the FBI and the CIA are the OMG, the WTF, and the WORLD

The OMG and WTF investigations are still ongoing.

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I think the LMAO people are investigating, too!

Yeah, the "aeu" in Petraeus doesn't sound American enough to me. They should have known better than to pick him.

posted November 16, 2012 05:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
And also look out for a new reality TV show--

The Real Generals of D.C. and their Civilian Groupies.

Tho I'm quite sure Honey Boo Boo will continue to remain # 1 in TV ratings

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Americans look up to Honey Boo Boo the most, because she doesn't have to work as hard as the Generals or socialites to be famous.

Efficiency.

posted November 16, 2012 05:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I think the LMAO people are investigating, too!

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posted November 16, 2012 05:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:

Americans look up to Honey Boo Boo the most, because she doesn't have to work as hard as the Generals or socialites to be famous.

Efficiency.

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You're killing me, Faith!