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Author Topic:   Perks Sneaked Into Fiscal Cliff Bill!
Randall
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posted January 03, 2013 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 11th-hour deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff preserved billions of dollars in corporate tax giveaways even as it slashed take-home pay for millions of American workers.

Tucked inside the last-minute fiscal cliff package were more than a dozen tax loopholes, many of which will benefit Wall Street financial firms and some of the nation's biggest corporations. These breaks will cost billions of dollars in the coming year, underscoring the lobbying power of corporate interests.

The deal was less kind to the middle class. Congress permitted a cut in the payroll tax to expire, meaning that the tax burden for the average worker will increase about $1,000 in 2013.

"This shows that the lobbyists are able to get what they want even when everyone else is starving," said Phineas Baxandall, senior analyst for tax and budget policy at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. "It also shows they are best able to get what they want when no one else is paying attention."

The corporate loopholes were part of a package of so-called tax extenders tacked onto the main bill. The extenders package, first approved by the Senate in early August, mixes popular benefits, like a deduction for teachers who buy classroom supplies, with corporate-friendly carve-outs, such as the "active financing" exception that permits businesses earning interest on overseas lending to defer U.S. taxes on that income indefinitely. There is even a tax break for construction of new racetracks.

The tax extenders were passed for only one year, and they still need to clear another potential hurdle: upcoming negotiations over mandated spending cuts and the debt ceiling. President Barack Obama and congressional leaders have indicated they'd like to see a "grand bargain" on taxes, which would feature lower overall rates but close a slew of loopholes.

The financial services industry, whose leaders had earlier joined a group of other corporate executives pushing for a "fair" solution to the fiscal crisis, is one of the primary beneficiaries of special-interest tax breaks. The active-financing exception, for example, permits banks like Morgan Stanley to avoid the 35 percent U.S. corporate tax rate on interest income from money lent overseas. A handful of other U.S.-based multinational companies with financing arms, such as Ford Motor Co. and General Electric, also use that exemption to lower their tax bills. The two-year cost to taxpayers is an estimated $11.2 billion, according to the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/fiscal-cliff-wall-street_n_2397933.html

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katatonic
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posted January 03, 2013 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this is media "stirring" the pot...come the next congress many loopholes etc will come up for revision. it was hard enough to get the repubs to vote on anything at all. negotiation is an ongoing, long-game sort of sport.

the payroll tax break was temporary. if you don't pay into SS there won't be anything to receive when the time comes! it was reagan who upped the SS rate way back when. the "break" was to ease the pain of the recession. things are looking up now and if anything, the wealthier citizens who don't pay SS on most of their earnings should feel a little less "picked on" knowing the majority are also pitching into the pot.

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katatonic
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posted January 03, 2013 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
heard rush today saying how untouched the capital gains crowd are (except for a 5% increase in capital gains!) and how therefore the whole "tax the rich" thing is a falsehood...

personally i think a 5% hike in their main income taxation is pretty reasonable and leaves them no less untouched than everyone else. and brings in a nice few pennies too. it would be ludicrous to try to raise money from these folk through income taxes since they don't claim much "income".


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Faith
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posted January 05, 2013 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oops...sorry, Randall, I didn't see that you already posted something on this topic, or I wouldn't have started another thread.

Yeah it's disgusting. And they do it right in front of our faces, then try and put on this big show of virtue when it's election season.

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katatonic
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posted January 06, 2013 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so lobby your reps already to do something about it. there is plenty of room for repeal and rewrite.

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Faith
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posted January 07, 2013 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
so lobby your reps already to do something about it. there is plenty of room for repeal and rewrite.

The reps don't listen to us, kat.

They KNOW we all get screwed over by corporate welfare, but that's who they serve. No amount of lobbying from regular people will pry them from their masters.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 07, 2013 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
so lobby your reps already to do something about it. there is plenty of room for repeal and rewrite.

Urrgg
This is the reason our country is in the shape it is in
If more than 50% of the people think like this, we are done( and we are)

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katatonic
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posted January 07, 2013 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes it is pathetic to USE the system isn't it. so join the DEEP GREEN RESISTANCE movement and go blow up a power plant.

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Faith
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posted January 07, 2013 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Kat,

When in recent years have you seen the system working? You can't use a machine that doesn't work. I mean the system of representative government...when have we been represented?

When Congress passes bills it doesn't read, like this Fiscal Cliff bill they had three minutes to glance at before the vote?

How much did calling our Reps help in that situation?

Not at all.

I think in order for change to occur, it has to be social change that circumvents this dysfunctional, crooked government as much as possible.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted January 07, 2013 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This not-so-rich dude has his take home pay reduced by $6,000 without even considering a raise in income taxes. $3,500 to SS and $2,500 to the new ObamaCare.

This is unconscionable for the younger folks and the admin staff that have a combined family income under the $117K SS limit. Secretaries making $60K a year do not need to have less take home pay in the middle of a recessionary environment.

I thought ObamaCare was supposed to make things cheaper. Why are medical insurance premiums up 25% this year for everyone?

Folks like myself don't have large enough capital gains to worry about the 5% increase. I guess those who sit at home and day trade have to worry. I earn a paycheck, not earn my money from financial market speculation.

In the end, you know who suffers? Charitable donations. People in my shoes are going to scale back on charity and gratuities. So, it'll be folks like the Salvation Army and Red Cross that get hurt the most, in an implicit subsidy to the federal government.

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katatonic
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posted January 07, 2013 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
since donations are still great ways to reduce your taxable income, why would you shave them? doesn't make sense,

as to obamacare and rising premiums, when the exchanges kick in and create competition the insurance companies will have to join the price war. in the meantime they are milking us for everything they can get...in britain the cost of healthcare for everyone is about $250 per month. if you want you can pay more and go to private insurance cos. if you calculate that around half, like here, are contributing little to nothing, that means that the wealthiest are chipping in $500 month to keep healthcare available to everyone including themselves. this is a helluva lot better than what most average insurance policies cost here and now.

@faith, i actually share your distaste for the system. however as long as the states are as crazy as they are the feds have to be a balancing act. as long as the corporations try to take COMPLETE control, the feds have to be there to knock them back.

because we cannot do ANYthing about corporate rules and their machinations. and the states are in many cases worse than the feds. especially in localized elections, votes DO count. but if the voter doesn't educate themselves they will always vote for whomever appeals to them on whatever shallow level grabs them. they will not look to see what the elected are doing, they can't be bothered on a day to day basis.

if you are suggesting wholesale revamping of the system, i hope you are happy with wholesale chaos in the interim...

my experience with overlarge govts is they just spawn a huge black market and a large percentage of outside-the-corral citizens. but do you really think there aren't say, 600 people in this country who could take places in washington and remain uncorrupted? i think we already have quite a few...

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katatonic
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posted January 07, 2013 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry but i have been there done that as far as the front lines go. i no longer consider violent revolution the answer to anything. the system is crapped out but the people STILL have the power if only they will use it. not for bloodshed and continuation of the internal war tho

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katatonic
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posted January 07, 2013 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
but YES, social change, moving from the bottom and very local upward is the only way to go.this is however why propaganda is so rife - everyone knows that influencing the thought of the people is the only way to get things done.

i don't believe it is true that no one in congress is there to represent their people. but politics is a game...you give me some of what i need, i'll do the same for you. and so it has ever been.

this is why kennedy was such a glaring MARK. he used the system to get in, as has pretty much everyone, and then he turned around and defied the very people who put him there, mob and machine alike...

using jfk as an example again, the entrenched members of washington - hoover stands out - did not like what he was trying to do, considered him and his brothers to be communists. so hoover is a BIG suspect in engineering the death of two kennedys and the reputation of a third. i have never had trouble with the idea that the car that drove off chappaquidick bridge was monkeyed with...nor that kennedy was supposed to die as well.

but their is corruption everywhere there is power. as we saw when the czars were overthrown in russia, the replacements are seldom any better than what they replace.

and having no one in power is a VERY LONG GAME...the people have to be educated and willing to look out for each other, and that is a truly difficult task!

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Ami Anne
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posted January 07, 2013 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
^ Kat,

When in recent years have you seen the system working? You can't use a machine that doesn't work. I mean the system of representative government...when have we been represented?

When Congress passes bills it doesn't read, like this Fiscal Cliff bill they had three minutes to glance at before the vote?

How much did calling our Reps help in that situation?

Not at all.

I think in order for change to occur, it has to be social change that circumvents this dysfunctional, crooked government as much as possible.


Could not have said it better, if I said it myself

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Ami Anne
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posted January 07, 2013 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Get this? The government is destroying small farms so that ONLY Monsanto will be available
These are the people YOU wanted, Kat.

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katatonic
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posted January 07, 2013 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i guarantee you if the public were involved enough and on their case enough, things would change. people vote and then go back to their routine, never asking where their vote is working for or against them..

but i think anyone who thinks "states' rights" is the answer should look at the seriously corrupt state governments before they go down that road.

and NOW, with a new congress sitting, is the time to lobby for the eradication of the things that corrupt bills like this.

it's not enough to whine about the dumb folk and write off the future.

i am very interested in HOW you envision effecting change? through history it has mostly been down to working outside the law/box...hence the IRS fixation on "underreporting" etc.

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katatonic
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posted January 08, 2013 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ami the govt is congress (largely republican) senate (NOW since jan more dems) president and SC. i agree that obama has continued to let monsanto rule the roost but on the other hand, congress has just a little to do with this. and that is the congress just past.

the president is one small part of the equation and congress has to pass pretty much all of his appointments, as you may know...

romney on the other hand has GUIDED MONSANTO to its current position. i am relieved that this virtual employee of theirs is NOT in the white house.

we have a long way to go but housecleaning is generally one step at a time. painfully slow!

i heard a bill was INTRODUCED into the house to require farmers to register seeds. i did not hear where it went after introduction. did you?

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Ami Anne
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posted January 08, 2013 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 2nd Amendment is NOT for guns for hunting. It is for guns protecting people from the tyranny of a government.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 08, 2013 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
i guarantee you if the public were involved enough and on their case enough, things would change. people vote and then go back to their routine, never asking where their vote is working for or against them..

but i think anyone who thinks "states' rights" is the answer should look at the seriously corrupt state governments before they go down that road.

and NOW, with a new congress sitting, is the time to lobby for the eradication of the things that corrupt bills like this.

it's not enough to whine about the dumb folk and write off the future.

i am very interested in HOW you envision effecting change? through history it has mostly been down to working outside the law/box...hence the IRS fixation on "underreporting" etc.


It is over. This country has hit critical mass. We will never come back. Watch yourself and see Obama's power grab for a 3rd term. There are bills that make it ILLEGAL to use free speech against people you don't like i.e. Muslims. The only variable is HOW fast we go down. It is over, Kat. You will realize it, one of these days.

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katatonic
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posted January 08, 2013 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=89

here is some info on HR193 regarding registration of seeds...but it says the text isn't available so hard to know what is in it. notice the estimated chances of it getting anywhere.. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr193

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katatonic
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posted January 08, 2013 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i would love to see where you get your info to back up that statement in any case, ami.

have you registered your disapproval of monsanto's GE salmon with the FDA? there are still 50 days to do so.

the trouble with throwing up your hands and saying "it won't make any difference" is that YOU are the ones stifling your own voices. WHILE WE STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY it is up to us to exercise the VIGILANCE that makes FREEDOM possible.

just sitting around whining about how evil THEY are gives THEM all the power!

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Ami Anne
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posted January 08, 2013 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
i would love to see where you get your info to back up that statement in any case, ami.

have you registered your disapproval of monsanto's GE salmon with the FDA? there are still 50 days to do so.

the trouble with throwing up your hands and saying "it won't make any difference" is that YOU are the ones stifling your own voices. WHILE WE STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY it is up to us to exercise the VIGILANCE that makes FREEDOM possible.

just sitting around whining about how evil THEY are gives THEM all the power!


If you think the FDA is going to listen to you, I have a song for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThlYHfIVa8

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katatonic
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posted January 08, 2013 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
as i suspected, you would rather grumble than do ANYthing. good luck with that. you are like the people who refused to vote and then complained who won.

there is a very OLD saying. no matter who you vote for, the government gets in. it is true for the most part. but it is not new.

the continued progress of monsanto will go nowhere because more and more countries will refuse to buy food exports from us. india is the latest to ban GMOS and insist on labelling, which, by the way, is required on all EXPORTED food from the usa. so it is not even a stretch for them to do it here at home too.

a change is coming, ami. don't lose heart. it may not be exactly the way you want it, but it will be for the better.

evil can only win so much before it consumes it's prey. and thus kills itself.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 08, 2013 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The government doesn't care what you think? Where you be, Kat?

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katatonic
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posted January 09, 2013 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
whether they care or not they can be made to care. you yourself admit that people VOTED OBAMA IN. the vote does matter, but when people like you spend all your time telling yourself and trying to persuade others that there is NO POINT TRYING, then the government doesn't care for sure. they just do what they are bid by their corporate masters.

yes plenty of elections are swung and outright stolen, but that is largely because we the people choose not to do anything about it - because "it's no use"

that said, it is more than possible things have to get worse STILL before people get so fed up they actually DO do something. or emigrate, as people did in droves in germany in the thirties.

but before you do anything you have to understand that the corporate manipulation of the govt is what is ruining the "free" market and eroding your rights. obama is far from a socialist - if you look at who he has around them, he has a lot of corporatist minders - but as long as people support the right of corporations to buy states and washington, ie, deregulate everything and get rid of taxes? it will continue.

and i don't blame any president who chooses to continue their life and try to get something done within the restricted elbow room he is allowed. i don't understand why anyone with real experience would WANT the job, but some people think they cand "do better". still, a dead president is useless and his assassination demoralizes people even more.

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