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Author Topic:   If you have a Magazine With More than 7 Bullets in NY, You are a Criminal
Ami Anne
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posted January 16, 2013 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really don't know much about the actual firing of guns, but experts say you need more than 7 bullets in a home invasion because you will get scared and miss etc.

If you don't take out the person, he will take you out, most likely. Welcome to Obama's world

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Faith
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posted January 16, 2013 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's worse than that...

Senator Asks CIA nominee When Obama Can Kill Americans With Drones

Not if.

When.

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PixieJane
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posted January 16, 2013 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to be pedantic I'll say that most people who scare off intruders with a gun don't even fire it once, and those who do fire it do so only once before the invader(s) take off. It's extremely rare that such defensive action even results in wounded, let alone someone dead. Plenty of guns used in self-defense fire less than that anyway.

What I saw of the NY law made me think it was going to be overturned by the courts as well (certainly part of it will, if not all of it).

Of course it would be inconvenient if social order broke down and you have to defend against a mob, but it is more likely to be inconvenient rather than an actual hazard (unless zombies DO come for us, they're not impressed with gunfire, only massive brain trauma ). Btw, that applies to mass murderers as well, it only takes a couple of seconds for them to change mags as well, not enough time to rush them under most circumstances, especially when people are running & hiding, so it's not like this law is really any help (at least not the parts that might survive the courts).

I'm much more concerned with the drones, and hope more civilians learn how to crack them (and I'd applaud them if they wrecked them on general principle as drones are expensive enough to be too much of a headache to bother with if enough did that, but I'd also be worried that such crackers/hackers/hijackers could use them for their own personal evil, including members of Taliban-like groups). Actually, even barring any malicious intent even supposedly pure spy drones with no violent capability have wrecked (you know how electronics tends to malfunction sooner or later) and it's been pure luck that no one (as far as we know) has been accidentally injured by a crashing drone. And I don't know of any gun likely to fend off a drone (though I bet someone more technically inclined than me could whip something up with parts from Radio Shack that would do the trick).

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Ami Anne
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posted January 16, 2013 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pixie
When you shoot an intruder you NEED to kill him. If you don't have enough bullets, you are dead. I know something about guns from friends of mine who are super into them.

Anyway, I answer you, unlike the people on here for whom I have no respect and skip over their posts

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PixieJane
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posted January 16, 2013 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why would you need to kill him? To prevent a law suit?

I'm thinking of general thugs, not say the Mafia (in which case it was probably kill or be killed from the start).

You should be aware that the law and even juries in the South (with the possible exception of Texas and Florida) see a difference between self-defense and vigilantism. I wasn't able to find the story again so all I can say is what I share here, but it was either Arkansas or Oklahoma where a man defended his businesses from armed thugs, shooting one who dropped unmoving. The other thugs ran and he chased them while shooting, which was crossing the line but many understand that adrenaline can make one act before thinking so he was still pretty safe from prosecution or conviction at that point. But then he came back (his gun empty), calmly reloaded it, and then walked up to the unconscious thug on the floor and shot him point blank in the head. When the cops found out (as it was caught on security cam which the owner forgot about), THAT was what got him arrested, and what a jury convicted him of...for killing someone who was no longer a threat.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 16, 2013 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You need to kill him before he kills you. Urrggh. Do you need to ask a question like that

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juniperb
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posted January 16, 2013 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami Anne, that`s just not true. A load of rock salt does the trick or if you need bullets, shoot to maim. It`s not like they`re walking to the police to tattle.

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We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek

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Ami Anne
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posted January 16, 2013 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Juni
You don't know if the guy has a gun. You have one chance, often, to do the job. Gun instructors tell you to shoot to kill.

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PixieJane
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posted January 16, 2013 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gun instructors do teach to shoot to kill. However, that doesn't mean you're supposed to go all terminator on them. If they run, or if they fall and don't move, then it becomes the job of the police to handle them, not for the defender to "finish the job." The job is to defend one's self, not to play judge, jury, and executioner (technically, even the police aren't supposed to shoot someone who is down). Sometimes that means a home invader or other attacker is killed, but most of the time the invader either runs and/or is wounded too badly to continue fighting. In very rare cases (outside of the movies anyway) a person will continue to fight to the bitter end, trying to take the person who stopped him with him, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem to retreat (even barricade) and reload if necessary.

To use an example I recently did, an old woman pulled her handgun and the home invader waiting for her to come home fled. Had he attacked she'd have been in her right to shoot to kill, and in all likelihood if she "finished the job" after he fell "just to be sure" then no one would look too deeply into it (as long as she didn't explicitly state she did that), though if he had 4-5 bullets in his back instead of front then that would raise questions and possible prosecution in some places. That's how the majority of self-defense works, with the attacker fleeing or surrendering/unconscious and the police called to handle it.

And fun fact, the reason most gun studies show criminal homicide far more common than self-defense is because many of the millions of self-defense with a gun per year don't result in the attacker's death (and the anti-gun studies only count those killed which is why they seem to do more harm than good when ignoring how many attackers survive a gun), as 911 is usually called even before shots are fired (so help is on the way) and because the point is to stop the attack, not kill the attacker (though sometimes the attacker does get killed in the process).

However, that will change when the zombie apocalypse is upon us.

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Faith
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posted January 16, 2013 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While we're on the subject of staying safe while criminals are on the prowl, please remember that burglars tend to stay away from homes with dogs.

Rottweilers do the trick.

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Randall
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posted January 17, 2013 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In most states, you have to be in fear of your life to kill a home invader. So, be prepared to tell the police a story along those lines (although no jury would convict you, so these cases never get made). But in Georgia, once you enter my home, I have the right to kill you by law. Better safe than sorry. You have the right to protect yourself and your family. In cases of home invasion, shoot center body mass and aim to kill.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted January 17, 2013 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like I mentioned, a special forces close combat shotgun loads only 5+1 rounds. It's not defined as an assault weapon, but it is more lethal than any AK47 or Colt variant in a close combat situation. It's been proven extremely effective against Al Qaeda. You don't even have to aim. A single cartridge round clears out an entire room of kindergarten children. The New York State regulation is stupid.

If I ever draw and chamber, I'm putting two between the eyes and one through the heart, never mind shoot to kill. That is a guarantee. Anyone who advocates shoots to maim has never handled a weapon before.

Anyway, any magazine for a personal weapon that isn't a revolver or handgun that uses a magazine can easily have the magazines taped and flipped over, turing that 7 into 14 without thinking. Anybody who has used a weapon knows that. If I want to wreak havoc, do you think I would carry just one Glock? No, I would have one in each hand, one in each coat pocket, two in my belt and two 0.22s in my socks. That's 8 x 7 = 56 rounds. Again, meeting the NY State standard.

Dumb politicians with bird brains.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 17, 2013 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
In most states, you have to be in fear of your life to kill a home invader. So, be prepared to tell the police a story along those lines (although no jury would convict you, so these cases never get made). But in Georgia, once you enter my home, I have the right to kill you by law. Better safe than sorry. You have the right to protect yourself and your family. In cases of home invasion, shoot center body mass and aim to kill.


This is what I would worry about. How do you figure the thing out? If someone is in your house and you don't get him first, you he may get you. Your time frame for decision is so small.

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Randall
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posted January 17, 2013 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Technically, you have to be in fear of your life at the time you defend yourself with deadly force; however, in the real world, if someone breaks into your home, you don't have to ask them why before shooting, as no jury will convict you for killing said persons--nor would a prosecutor even try.

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juniperb
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posted January 17, 2013 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Anyone who advocates shoots to maim has never handled a weapon before."

Not true as the purpose of target practice is to be able to shoot where you aim. Know your weapon, know your target and and you can do the job.

It would be extreme circumstances for me to shoot a human being. Those circumstances would revolve around danger to my family. They can have my property. Things are replaceable and people are not.

Living on a farm one must know how to use a weapon with accuracy and have confidence they can hit a moving target. So to maim is MY option and monthly range practice insures this ability

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We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted January 17, 2013 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Technically, if you have a sick mind or if you are trained, there are no limits to the imagination. You don't need guns at all for a Newtown to happen.

Let me illustrate. A 5 gallon plastic container of gasoline, like those I use for my lawn mower or snowblower. Some cotton cord or a firecracker. A lighter.

I made my point. I'll stop there.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted January 17, 2013 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
"Anyone who advocates shoots to maim has never handled a weapon before."

Not true as the purpose of target practice is to be able to shoot where you aim. Know your weapon, know your target and and you can do the job.

It would be extreme circumstances for me to shoot a human being. Those circumstances would revolve around danger to my family. They can have my property. Things are replaceable and people are not.

Living on a farm one must know how to use a weapon with accuracy and have confidence they can hit a moving target. So to maim is MY option and monthly range practice insures this ability


The training is different. No offense to farm life, but your moving target doesn't shoot back at you. Let's inject that into the equation.

I train to double tap between the eyes while moving, while tired and have the target moving. It ends the situation.

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juniperb
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posted January 17, 2013 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since I`ve never had to shoot another human being, thank the Lord, I let you have your say with no rebuttal. I have had to protect livestock and my fur faces and that is a heart ache yet necessary. I cringe to even imagine the use on a person. Like I said, they can have all I own except to harm my loved ones....

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We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek

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PixieJane
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posted January 17, 2013 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Technically, if you have a sick mind or if you are trained, there are no limits to the imagination. You don't need guns at all for a Newtown to happen

The deadliest school massacre in US History:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

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juniperb
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posted January 17, 2013 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PJ, that was ugly and locals are still horrified and talk about that awful day. He claimed he didn`t intend to kill children but just to blow up the buildings....

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We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek

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