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Author
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Topic: Women in combat
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YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 09:06 AM
  
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
because we let them take berlin for whatever reason ... and lets not forget the soviets probably would have lost if we hadnt supplied them....
Your perspective comes from American textbooks in American schools. The perspective is slightly different outside America. The Brits, whom American went in to bail out, portray an Allied force (meaning America) unable to finish the job without the Soviets. Yes, the Soviets had huge supply issues and their logistical problems would have caused them to be defeated by the Nazis. However, credit goes to the Soviets for their relentless advances. In not saying the Allied force couldn't have stood up to the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. However, the cost of a land war in Europe would have been very high and both sides would have come out very bloodied. IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3860
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 11:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Basically, America ought to stay out if the war business.
That's my favorite thing I ever heard you say. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 6079
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 28, 2013 12:20 PM
if ya'll really think the allies would have won the war without the u.s, you are fooling yourselves.... if it wasnt for the u.s the germans would have won, thats a fact.. not just something in textbooks.IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3860
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 12:46 PM
^ Not something in textbooks...so what is your source? IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1758
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted January 28, 2013 01:50 PM
The Brit guy I talked to said his history class claimed it was Britain that fought the majority of the war effort and gave thanks to their own country. Even when other countries joined they did so mainly under Brit leadership, including Americans, though Americans were so gun ho and individualistic that they often charged unwisely and lost the most troops percentage wise in the least amount of time while also pulling the lightest load of the war effort. And if you want to tick off a Brit tell them America saved them in WW2.  Of course Russia thanks itself for winning the war as well. All the countries have their own perspective on it. And one guy told me that he met a Japanese exchange student who said she'd never learned of Pearl Harbor in her Japanese school, they'd made it sound like Americans had invaded the Pacific without provocation, just one more Western colonial power the Japanese had to fight off (not that they actually consider the rest of the Far East fit to stand with them) until they realized they couldn't survive more atomic blasts. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 01:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
if ya'll really think the allies would have won the war without the u.s, you are fooling yourselves.... if it wasnt for the u.s the germans would have won, thats a fact.. not just something in textbooks.
But that's not germane to the discussion whether the U.S./NATO could have convincingly won a land war in Europe in the 1960s - 1980s. At best, it would have been a bloody stalemate. Remember that the Eastern bloc, while technologically and logistically inferior, far outnumbered the Western force in equipment quantity and personnel. That would have been a war which no side can win. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 01:54 PM
The Japanese perspective is that Pearl Harbor was in **justifiable defense** in retaliation for US blockade of the Pacific Seas to oil shipments from the Middle East. The Japanese perspective is that the US was "evil" towards their haloed "Empire." Folks in their 20s and 30s were taught that by their parents and learned that in school. In fact, some even believed that the minerals in Eastern Siberia belong to Japan and they were right to take Manchuria to "re-claim" those natural resources. Of course, the Russians and Chinese have something to say about that.IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 6079
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 28, 2013 02:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
^ Not something in textbooks...so what is your source?
i had relatives who were there, in the pacific and europe.. my granpas brother took a direct hit from a shell on omaha beach and needless to say nothing was left of him, they sent a stick back in a coffin. i have also studied the subject extensively by reading books and watching documentaries... my favorites are the soldiers memoirs... with the old breed is the best and most graphic account of war you will ever find. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 6079
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 28, 2013 02:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
But that's not germane to the discussion whether the U.S./NATO could have convincingly won a land war in Europe in the 1960s - 1980s. At best, it would have been a bloody stalemate. Remember that the Eastern bloc, while technologically and logistically inferior, far outnumbered the Western force in equipment quantity and personnel. That would have been a war which no side can win.
i will agree with that .. i'm saying the u.s would have won if they had followed pattons advice and immediately attacked the soviet union while they still had the army there to do it.
IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3860
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i had relatives who were there, in the pacific and europe.. my granpas brother took a direct hit from a shell on omaha beach and needless to say nothing was left of him, they sent a stick back in a coffin. i have also studied the subject extensively by reading books and watching documentaries... my favorites are the soldiers memoirs... with the old breed is the best and most graphic account of war you will ever find.
Interesting, glad you have a sustained interest in it. My dad was a WWII vet, but he just worked in encryption and never saw combat. My father-in-law was a WWII combat vet/jumpmaster who was in a lot of the major battles (got his parachute shot through with holes on D-Day; we still have the parachute.) He was good friends with General Matthew Ridgway, long story, but I think it was a synastry thing, with my father-in-law being a Cancer, Ridgway a Pisces.  But anyway. My father-in-law was in the thick of it. So I was talking about this with my husband last night...he said that his dad was in the habit of saying something like, "The Germans were bad, but the Russians were much worse- like savage animals." He said that he and his fellow soldiers never wanted to go into battle with the Russians. Just one view of what the US soldiers' morale might have been like, if ordered to begin a land invasion of Russia.
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YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 03:56 PM
Of one the tenents of good soldiering is to respect your enemy or potential enemies.One of my colleagues who works with me in my banking job is ex-Spetsnaz and he did his Soviet tours of Afghanistan. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 6079
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 28, 2013 04:52 PM
^have you read the art of war by sun tzu? thats one of my favorite books.IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 28, 2013 06:31 PM
^^ My question for you is whether you have memorized the book. Consider my ethnicity. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted January 30, 2013 02:32 PM
Unfortunately, the smack talk against women in combat roles has heightened.Apparently, part of the smack talk is that only two women have tried for Marine Infantry Officer Training (no offense to Senior NCOs and Other Ranks). Both women dropped out. That's not good. I know that there are a whole lot of female Navy, Army and Air Force officers, but the Marines are the only all-combat-qualified force.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/10/16/163009028/s econd-female-marine-fails-grueling-infantry-officer-course
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/04/162231290/first-female-marines-take-combat-leadership-te st IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 9506
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 30, 2013 02:44 PM
no one has ever successfully invaded russia by LAND. the germans starved and froze to death in the russian winter and the BURNED OUT russian fields which offered no food to pillage...napoleon experienced THE SAME THING. whether europe needed america or not we will never really know, will we, and everyone likes to think it was THEIR army that really did the dirty to the nazis.however the stupidity of attacking russia, and the resistance from WITHIN the nazis, were just as important in their defeat as any allied armies. as to the fall of the USSR, GORBACHEV attributes it more to the ridiculously expensive, unwinnable invasion of AFGHANISTAN more than any other factor. in other words, we are on the same path, and nasty as the drones are they are saving us from a much more expensive drain on our resources...though i doubt it will save enough. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 25632
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 30, 2013 04:30 PM
Reagan outspent the Soviets. Reagan can be credited for the fall of communism. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 9506
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 30, 2013 07:00 PM
reagan can also be credited with supporting the taliban, whom he compared to "our founding fathers" in their aims and intentions.but i think the USSR did themselves in without the need of our help. and so will we if we keep waging war in unwin-able scenarios. but hey, what does gorbachev know? IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1758
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted January 30, 2013 09:52 PM
I remember I saw a couple of James Bond movies shortly after 9/11, and this one blew my mind:
http://bestfilmsofourlives.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/10-things-you-wont -believe-happened-in-a-bond-movie/ quote:
Bond helps the Taliban – The Living Daylights (1987)Timothy Dalton’s first stab at the series featured Bond going up against an unscrupulous arms dealer with plans to profit off of both sides in the Soviet-Afghan War. At the film’s climax, Bond needs to attack a Soviet air force base, getting some help from the local rebels to do so. Yes, James Bond teams up with Mujahideen, the same warrior clans who would soon after turn into the Taliban. History hasn’t been terribly kind to that decision.
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YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 4854
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted February 26, 2013 02:00 PM
And the day is approaching for registering for the draft.
http://news.yahoo.com/listen-ladies-uncle-sam-might-want-too-081223505.html IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 9506
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 26, 2013 03:44 PM
Yes the SS stinks, but we have a volunteer standing army now and should the draft ever be reinstated gay men will no longer have an easy out. Women of childbearing/rearing age, however, will probably be able to duck and dive - at the cost of another baby boom of course..I think it may be a long while between saying women MAY go into combat and FORCING them to do so. With the other SS, social security, being forced on all newborns now, the argument could be made that registering again at 18 is altogether redundant... IP: Logged |
SpooL
Knowflake Posts: 487
From: Toronto/Ottawa,Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 26, 2013 07:03 PM
The best solution would be the way the War Measure Act Works in Canada.The War Measure act means anyone can be drafted in times of war including women. You can only be deployed within North America(US, Greenland, Mexico, Ice Land, etc). The exception is if you volunteer to go overseas. It frees up the regular forces to go overseas and replaces them with draftees. I'm no fan of a drafted army, the level of dedication and morale isn't as high as a volunteer army. Conscript armies always get destroyed by a volunteer army half there size. ---------------------------------------
Capircorn Rising
Gemini Sun, 5th House
Aries Moon
Mercury in Gemini
Venus In Taurus IP: Logged |
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