posted March 18, 2013 07:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
Its Ironic that with a thread called "The Country is Run By Stupid People" that I have to explain this or maybe I'm just Irritated.

If your referring to light sweet crude the answer is yes.

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Thanks for insinuating that I am stupid.

I didn't ask a yes or no question, so I don't know what the answer is "yes" to.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
But, dirty oil or alternative energy (tar sands, shale oil) that's a different story.

I don't know why everyone still thinks of light sweet crude, light sweet crude is dead.

Sure its easier to pump out of the ground, but you have to factor transportation and politics.

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First of all, every list I've seen of oil reserves shows America having relatively little. These lists never differentiate between clean and dirty oil.

"Sure it is easier to pump out of the ground, but..." is an understatement. Sometimes the oil is there, but it is impossible to extract.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
Think of it this way If I have something you need and its unavailable or you can find a similar product for a better price or get a better service I will look for alternatives.

Its the same reason why Sears is failing as a retailer because people can find a better price and service somewhere else.

The same goes with alternative energy, if the Arabs and Venezuelans were smart they would try to be more competitive.

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You don't make much sense to me. Arabs and Venezuelans aren't being competitive?

They have a product, and there is a demand for that product. In a profit-driven world, why would they abandon that and get into developing alternative energy...what incentive is there for them?

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
Keep in mind having an oil source is one half of the problem.

You can't do anything with the oil unless you send it to a refinery.

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Thank you again for insinuating that I'm stupid.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
If anything build more refineries and pipelines.

The price will then come down and even lower if the US becomes an oil exporter.

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You still haven't proven that we have much oil to export.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
If your an exporter the less effected a country is to shocks in the global market.

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posted March 18, 2013 07:54 AM            

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Enthusiasm is spurred by production in another shale formation, the Bakken, which lies under North Dakota and Montana and stretches into Canada. Oil production in the U.S. portion of the Bakken went from 3,000 barrels a day in 2005 to about 400,000 now. The Bakken contains about 3.6 billion barrels of recoverable oil, making it the largest U.S. oil play since Prudhoe Bay in Alaska was identified in the 1960s, according to U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates.

Last year, U.S. oil production reached its highest level since 2004, about 5.5 million barrels per day, with North Dakota the state posting the largest increase in oil output.

North America's oil resources are "proving to be much larger than previously thought," thanks in part to shale oil, said a report this month from the U.S. National Petroleum Council (NPC), a federally chartered, privately funded government advisory board. It predicted that what it called "tight oil" production would grow to between 2 million and 3 million barrels per day, "depending on access to new plays and continued technology development."

At that rate, the new shale oil would not be enough to wean the U.S. from its foreign oil dependence, with the nation's current consumption habit of about 19 million barrels per day of petroleum products. But it could significantly bolster domestic supply.

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posted March 18, 2013 08:29 AM            

Well, I was busy moving from my country house (over the gas-rich, fracking-doomed Marcellus Shale) to my suburban house then; I wasn't paying attention to the news much.

However these reports conceded that it's really impossible to predict how much oil we'll be able to get, because of variables such as the market value of oil, pipeline construction, and lack of certainty about the efficacy of developing technologies.

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Estimating shale oil reserves is complicated by several factors. Firstly, the amount of kerogen contained in oil shale deposits varies considerably. Secondly, some nations report as reserves the total amount of kerogen in place, including all kerogen regardless of technical or economic constraints; these estimates do not consider the amount of kerogen that may be extracted from identified and assayed oil shale rock using available technology and under given economic conditions. By most definitions, "reserves" refers only to the amount of resource which is technically exploitable and economically feasible under current economic conditions. The term "resources", on the other hand, may refer to all deposits containing kerogen. Thirdly, shale oil extraction technologies are still developing, so the amount of recoverable kerogen can only be estimated.

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Looks like there are also quite a few experts challenging the IEA's prediction, claiming, amongst other things, that the IEA is predictably wrong with its predictions.

This article is excellent and thoroughly deconstructs the IEA report:

posted March 18, 2013 11:33 AM            

But whether it exceeds the saudi output or not any significant oil find attracts the sharks. The usa will find herself the object of the kind of actions she has visited on others...

posted March 18, 2013 12:43 PM            

My understanding is that the oil companies have been actively engaged in sabotaging efforts to make "green" energy more widely available; ie they've been buying patents for cutting edge technologies (engines that run on water and such) and then refusing to develop them.

posted March 18, 2013 01:47 PM            

and yes, the main players have done their best to buy up all the innovations but some are publicly available...for instance i know one person who has built tesla coils and i am sure he is not the only one...but GE have a hold on NOT THE METHOD BUT THE ENERGY! building anything bigger than for private use is termed "stealing electricity" and is prosecutable!

posted March 18, 2013 07:56 PM            

I didn't know GE owns all the electricity. That's like the Federal Reserve owning all the wealth.

posted March 18, 2013 08:31 PM            

it may LOOK like they own these things, but in reality/common law, they are flagrantly ILLegal. the trick is in exposing their "lack of clothes"..

posted March 18, 2013 09:59 PM            

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Originally posted by katatonic:
offpoint, i am seeing this symbol a lot lately - ^ (or ^^)... does it actually mean something? or is it a typo fad?

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It refers to the post directly above it, which saves on having to quote it as well as hopefully not being thought to respond to someone else.

For example, instead of quoting you as I did I could've went:

^^

Though if there'd been more replies so that your question wasn't the very last post and I wanted to respond to it then I'd have to quote as I couldn't use the arrows to point at it that way.

posted March 18, 2013 11:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
...These lists never differentiate between clean and dirty oil...

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But, being able to understand the differences of both conventional and unconventional is
very important in making any arguments.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
You don't make much sense to me. Arabs and Venezuelans aren't being competitive?

They have a product, and there is a demand for that product.
In a profit-driven world, why would they abandon that and get into developing alternative energy...
what incentive is there for them?

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Arabs nations will have to more competitive to keep up with unconventional oil developments both close to home and in other places in the world were alternative sources of oil is available.

This is were I think you got confused. I'm not referring to those nations getting into alternative energies at all, but nations that can find alternative forms of oil/unconventional oil sources.

I said they would have to be more competitive or offer more because there is alternative sources(not to be confused with alternative energy)

Example why buy pens at a regular store if you can get them at the dollar store. Your regular store will have to do more
to keep business with you.

Your regular store doesn't necessarily have to reduce there products to a dollar,
but something will have to be done to compete.

Fracking has improved alot and other technologies to extract unconventional oil.

Its still not a 100%, but pumping light sweet crude isn't either.

It has to come out of the ground at the right temperature, too hot it will evaporate into a gas and is lost.

But, of course its more perfected as compared to fracking.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^ Not intelligible

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If you can't understand these key concepts, I would big to differ.

Not only that there is a clear line of miscommunication and you just wanted to flare back at me after being made to look stupid.

Either your not reading what I said correctly or I didn't explain myself clearly

I think you got confused with alternative sources and alternative energy in my original post.

If I had known that you would get the two confused I wouldn't have used the world "alternative" but "unconventional oil sources".

I just assumed you would have been able to differentiate the two.

Getting that sorted out is more import, instead of both us flaring at each other.

As both of us are not fans of oil anyway!!.
So we are on the same team.

And yes, Micro hydro electricity is the way to go.

Several people have build there own micro water dams on there own properties.

posted March 19, 2013 12:14 AM            

When you are playing with billions, the people who think in hundreds are just so many houses..

posted March 19, 2013 08:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
Either your not reading what I said correctly or I didn't explain myself clearly.

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I said this sentence was not intelligible:

If your an exporter the less effected a country is to shocks in the global market.

Did you mean to say, "Exporter countries are less affected by shocks in the global market." ?

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
I think you got confused with alternative sources and alternative energy in my original post.

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No~ I was just behind in following the storyline of how recoverable tight oil has become, and how huge our supply of it is.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
As both of us are not fans of oil anyway!!.
So we are on the same team.

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I'm a fan of it, I'm an addict just like most people, but I realize it's a bad addiction.

I'm not on any team, but you don't seem half bad after all.

quote:

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Originally posted by SpooL:
And yes, Micro hydro electricity is the way to go.

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posted March 19, 2013 08:18 AM            

As I have very little *faith* in the justice system to adhere to the law anymore, I can't work up much interest in the finer points of how the law is written...it will only frustrate me more to see "the way things should be" clashing with uglier reality.

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
@faith, yes it is all a game , founded on a nonexistent resouce (money is worthless really isn't it?) Using collusion, ksbuki theater and playing moopoly basically...i am the hat are you the shoe or the car?

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I hate to sound elitist, but I'm the car. As a competitive wee little Cap, to score the car over my five siblings was pure bliss, and that shaped my preferences.

Anyway, the fact that fiat money created out of thin air has so much power is beyond flabbergasting.

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It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

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posted March 19, 2013 02:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thanks for explaining more, SpooL.

Ahh my husband has always dreamed of putting a little mill race on our property. But as I said, we are fracking-doomed and have been on the verge of leaving that area for a while; we just can't figure out where to go next.

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We are fracking-doomed. Its a shame we don't share the same thinking an in Europe.

Unconventional development oil is bad to begin with, you should see the Albertan Oil Sands and the long term damage done.

The problem is because its long term damage people ignore it or don't see the long term effects.

Short term damage= A solution can be found to most environmental problems and people become confident thinking its being taken care of.

Long term damage =gradual problems that happen long term and we don't know exactly because were not at that stage yet.

Instead of looking for unconventional oil, Europe just went to renewable energy.

Plus, I think were at the top of the commodity cycle, but I don't know what the next cycle will be.

Off topic, my friend and I are planing on building a micro-plant on her property

Her cottage has a small river in the Laurentians, the topography is very high in that area with lots of streams and rivers.

So a hydro-electric plant makes sense because as we know Rain water always collects near the base of a mountain and forms a river or lake and flows from a higher elevation to a lower elevation.

So, as long as it keeps raining there will always be a water flow.

Quebec, is the only province in Canada to have 90% of its power from hydroelectricity, because it just makes sense.

Other provinces have had problems with other sources of energy production.

The disadvantage to hydroelectricity is geology and geography.

posted March 19, 2013 04:30 PM            

Nice talking with you.