Posts: 7386
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 28, 2013 09:44 AM            

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Although Zimmerman exploited this (imho) law, we cannot compromise other people's right to defend themselves.

Using my states law

Michigan's law is designed to protect people who quote "honestly and reasonably" feel their life is threatened. That means that not only must the person defending themselves sincerely believe that their actions are preventing death or great bodily harm, they must also believe an objective or "reasonable" person would feel the same.

Ambiguous at best, deadly at it`s worst.

How would you take the law, as is, and rewrite it to give people the right to defend themselves while avoiding exploitation?

Forget figuring out in the heat of the moment what another reasonable soul would feel/do.

My non legal opinion is the law should only apply to personal home and property .

There one is not stalking, profiling or intimidating another.

We have the right to defend our physical place & property with force as it is where we retreat to feel safe and secure.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Posts: 870
From: LaLa land
Registered: Apr 2013

posted July 28, 2013 10:51 AM            

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Hi JuniperB, I don't find this law you quoted ambigous, reworded i think it says

"if you must then go ahead and defend yourself, but don't try to pull a fast one on us, to murder someone and then claim you 'didn't know'"

btw are you eve going to share that recipe lol?

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Posts: 7386
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 29, 2013 08:51 AM            

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Ah! should one have to reword a law for it to make sense... I figure that`s likely how Zimmerman fell into the crack of that law.
Not rewording per se but interpretation of it.
I hold for the law to only apply to home and property.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Posts: 1245
From: The Beach
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 30, 2013 12:17 PM            

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The Stand Your Ground law wasn't used as a defense during the Zimmerman trial.

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Posts: 870
From: LaLa land
Registered: Apr 2013

posted July 30, 2013 01:33 PM            

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Ah found it again! so this is where this thread was!

True just checked what Moonwitch said...

as to if the law should be so clear...even if it is, trust a lawyer to make it look as clear as mud (let us not forget the Clinton 'trial', where we all remembered this guy was a lawyer once upon a time)

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Posts: 7386
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 30, 2013 02:01 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by MoonWitch:
The Stand Your Ground law wasn't used as a defense during the Zimmerman trial.

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right. still, he was able to use the law to murder. without the law, it would have been straight up murder.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Posts: 1245
From: The Beach
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 30, 2013 02:07 PM            

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If he lived in another state it would have just been presented as self defense in court - which is what he used anyway.

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Posts: 7614
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 01, 2013 01:37 PM            

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It wasn't used in the trial, because Zimmerman and attorney didn't want a judge to be allowed to rule alone on that. By taking it to trial as regular self-defense, they were able to secure a jury trial.

I agree with Juni. There should be provisions against vigilante-ism. No one should be able to reference the law as an excuse for murder.

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Posts: 7386
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 01, 2013 02:06 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
It wasn't used in the trial, because Zimmerman and attorney didn't want a judge to be allowed to rule alone on that. By taking it to trial as regular self-defense, they were able to secure a jury trial.

I agree with Juni. There should be provisions against vigilante-ism. No one should be able to reference the law as an excuse for murder.

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Thank you, exactly. It is indeed open for vigilante-ism and it needs reworked.
I believe to pertain only to home and property.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Posts: 7386
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 04, 2013 09:37 AM            

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Looks like FL will revisit the law

I found this poll interesting

quote:

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Most U.S. voters support the "Stand Your Ground" laws, although the question of whether to retreat or use deadly force in self defense divides Americans along gender, racial and political lines, a national Quinnipiac University poll found on Friday.

The poll found that a strong majority of white voters and men support the laws, while black voters generally oppose them and women are almost evenly divided.

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Perhaps it`s projection or bias , but I thought more women would be opposed or want the law rewritten.

http://news.yahoo.com/florida-lawmakers-agree-hearings-stand-ground-law-010149022.html
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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Posts: 2655
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted August 04, 2013 09:54 AM            

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No, women have more use for the law if it covers all ground, like when women leave their job around midnight to go to their car and have to worry that the rapist they shoot survives (which he probably will) only to sue (or even be sued by his family). Violent exes are also notorious for stalking, attacking women at their job, etc, so again Stand Your Ground potentially does them even more good than many men.

'Course there's a dark side that not many women realize: the law actually encourages shooting an abusive ex or husband because then she doesn't have to worry about prosecution (as he can't say she attacked him without reason). However, stop him with a warning shot and you may go to prison whereas shoot him dead and there's nothing to worry about. So the choice may be to shoot him to death in front of the children, traumatizing them for life (and possibly shooting them by mistake if he's too close to one), or go to prison yourself and the man gets the children. As just one particularly insane example.

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