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Author
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Topic: So while you are riding the rollercoaster
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Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 26, 2013 11:53 AM
  
Of Who is WINNING Now, stoked by the press on all sides for the sake of ratings;What do you think about the TPP that is being worked up behind closed doors? Now there is something nasty that Obama has promoted. Of course, like manuals outlining circs under which the military would be asked too fire on their fellow citizens, this is a carryover from the Bush administration. But as it basically threatens to let foreign companies to operate above the law of our land, I am surprised no one seems the least worried or outraged about it. IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 26, 2013 03:39 PM
TPP...the most dangerous trade contract you never heard of...Chances are that you've never heard of the Trans-Pacific-Pact/Free Trade Agreement, aka the TPP-FTA, and that is exactly the way the Obama administration (and its corporate bosses)-- would like to keep things. The mainstream (read: corporate), media has utterly left the American public in the dark on this skunk of a deal which surrenders our national, state and local sovereignty to corporate interests. The TPP as it is known in secretive corporate circles represents the most anti-democracy assault devised by trade representatives from some 600 corporations, including Halliburton, Chevron, PhaRMA, Comcast and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). The secrecy factor...hiding TPP's anti-democracy powers behind 'national security'... The TPP-FTA (Trans-Pacific-Pact Free Trade Agreement) is the latest brainchild of the 1%. Negotiations for each round have been so secretely guarded that paramilitary teams surrounded each locale with weaponized helicopters looming overhead. A 'weapon of mass deception' specifically engineered to surrender our representative democracy to corporate rule; the TPP has been negotiated in secret since 2008 and is now nearing completion in its 17th round. President Obama has allowed both of his US Trade Representative(s) (first Ron Kirk and now Mike Froman); to use the illegitimate veil of 'national security', and the accompanying overclassification of information, to shut out the public and Congress from 'negotiations.' No amount of public relations salesmanship from Obama can sell this stinker of a trade deal--once the facts hit the light of day. Ironically, the facts only surfaced--because of a leak--another whistleblower. Leaked official documents clearly show that parties involved agreed to keep all draft and contributing documents secret, until four years after the final ratification of the agreement ( or when negotiations collapse);-- EXCEPT for the final text. During the entire length of ongoing negotiations--now in it's 17th round, Congress was locked out of any meaningful discussion or investigation, while over 600 corporate chieftains and advisors have all but scripted the entire document down to the last punctuation mark. Congress locked out.... Congress was not only 'locked out'--it was never invited to the party. (While it's true that the USTR 'permitted' limited viewing of the texts by members of Congress--none were allowed to have expert staffers in various negotiated areas of concern, present. Furthermore, recording devices were expressly forbidden. The deal which would surrender national, state and local sovereignty to a secret tribunal of three corporate attorneys,--excluding all but corporate interests, was blessed with impunity on the profane altar of 'national security.' Leakers would be punished as 'enemies of the state'--with a real possibility of jail time--and that threat included members of congress. Congressional leaders questioning this 'corporate coup' though few--were refreshingly forthright. Senator Ron Wyden (D) Oregon led the charge, followed by Senator Elizabeth Warren (D) Mass. and Congressman Alan Grayson (D) Fla. Senator Ron Wyden denied access...blew the whistle on secrecy.... Senator Ron Wyden is the reigning Chair of the Senate Finance Committee's Subcommittee on International Trade, Customs, and Global Competitiveness, the very committee assigned jurisdiction of treaties like the TPP went on record from the floor of Congress stating how ... ...."the majority of Congress is being kept in the dark as to the substance of the TPP negotiations, while representatives of U.S. corporations--like Halliburton, Chevron, PhaRMA, Comcast and the Motion Picture Association of America--are being consulted and made privy to details of the agreement."
... anyone heard of this???? IP: Logged |
Faith
Moderator Posts: 6030
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted October 26, 2013 04:31 PM
^ Link? I'd like to know the source, please.I never heard of this, I dropped out of following politics a few months ago. quote:
I am surprised no one seems the least worried or outraged about it.
No one or no one at LL? I have no illusions about how corrupt our entire government is; NOTHING they do would surprise me, and I mean absolutely nothing. I was outraged years ago; you can't stay outraged forever, things just are the way they are. quote:
Now there is something nasty that Obama has promoted.
It's just the same pattern that's always been there. IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 26, 2013 07:56 PM
No, outrage is engineered to turn us against each other. However this pact is very close to endgame and the closed doors need to be opened. Some in congress are trying to do that, but only a portion of people will even notice because they have so swallowed the cult if Obama as monster they don't notice he.is only a part of the.picture.You and I may differ as to how much he is happy to play the part but that is something we can't know and which I don't consider all that relevant. My attempts to explain that are met on most sides with accusations of defending him, but HE is not the point. So, yes, in a way, same as it ever was  as node said the other day, but there is always a turning point if we can find it. I left the link out but it comes up pretty quick if you look beyond the official entries when googling Trans Pacific Pact.Hard to link from the phone, in fact I haven't figured it out yet. If the conservatives or socialists were really about what they trumpet, I might join one or the other, but they're all being used except for a relatively few individuals who still shoot straight. IP: Logged |
Faith
Moderator Posts: 6030
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted October 26, 2013 11:46 PM
Here's the firegdoglake link: http://my.firedoglake.com/jeanine4truth/2013/06/24/tpp-trans-pacific-pact-the-1-solution-to-democracy-government-by-corporate-dictates/ They have some credibility with me. Jane Hamsher, founder of the site, is friends with Glenn Greenwald...and I haven't found them publishing any bogus stories yet. Not that I've been policing them every day, but visiting from time to time. More quotes: quote:
Grayson added that the TPP extends into matters which are not under the purview of trade relations. He added that the TPP
…”goes far beyond anything even remotely resembling trade and systematically interferes in areas such as finance, that most people would regard as having no connection ….to matters of trade.” The agreement….” extends well beyond trade in a manner that systematically benefits multinational corporations to the detriment of health, safety, the right to organize, and other fundamental human rights and progressive values. ”
quote:
The TPP grants the rights of a conquering army to foreign investors and multinational corporations.
^ Not surprised. quote:
At the core of this despicable ‘agreement’ is the international corporate tribunal designated to be the final authority over any future disputes–at least on paper. The tribunal is to be staffed by the same corporate attorneys who service the multinational corporations. Conflict of interest is not only obvious—TPP makes it… a way of life. No right of appeal exists and deliberations are…once again…secret.In theory, any and all laws a foreign corporation finds irritating are taken to the tribunal. The most egregious crimes against humanity—forced or slave labor, child labor, massive dumping of toxic pollutants, murders committed by subcontractors, police abuse, censorship, and the criminalization of dissent–are subjugated to a tribunal of three corporate attorneys. The ‘economic royalists’ would be in the driver’s seat.
Not really surprised, but I wasn't expecting it this soon, I thought that wouldn't happen for another 5-10 years. Wow. I feel like we are beyond endgame. We have fallen off the cliff and just have yet to make impact with the ground. This is the whole thrust of what I was saying when I posted in GU2 on a regular basis. You called it hysteria or something. No...I just knew that the psychos were in control and nothing good was going to come of it.
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Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 27, 2013 01:16 AM
I also called you intelligent. There's a lot of truth in what you came in here with, and sorry if I got off on a wrong foot which spiralled out...but I do think it's too easy to see a basic impulse of life (aggregation of power) as a plot. Yes there are plots but the plotters are not cut from one cloth and moving according to a blueprint set down at the dawn of time. I've been there, believe me, and found it's too pat though there is a lot of truth in the mix..just my take and not an attack on yours We come here for discussion not necessarily agreement...cheerleading adds no depth to one's thinking, does it? In fact at every level there are plotters and many of them foil each other which is where the cohesive explanations fall down. And where the salvation is too. Way too late to try to unravel where we misunderstood each other but there are possibilities still. Already the expose is growing and members of Congress not too happy with the backroom shenanigans...End times are far too numerous for me to believe in. I am still skeptical of all sides including the descriptions by the alarmists. Need to find out more. It's not over till it's over and this is currently stalled... but imagine (for one example) what it was like to live when Henry VIII was becoming more and more power mad (and just plain mad)...perilous times are always with us. IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 2423
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 27, 2013 11:55 AM
Obama is only part of the picture.
I too wish more people on here would recognize that Cat. And, ultimately he is not the point.Faith: Firedoglake 
One of my favorite sites, for truth, and good writing. Alan Grayson again he is a relative newbie from Florida, I always pay attention to him. His flashlight highlights what should be talked about, as opposed to the disinformation. He has character, and a good set of morals. Smart too. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 7587
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 27, 2013 12:05 PM
quote:
I too wish more people on here would recognize that Cat. And, ultimately he is not the point.
It`s not the point but the focus so wheels spin and underhanded deals are made while the watching the redundant and mind numbing focus IF only Obama was the problem, how easily it would be to correct a corupt, greed/power ridden and good old boys goverment. "we are winning"  ------------------
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 27, 2013 01:30 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-an-oppressive-us-led-free-trade-agreeement-a-corporate-power-tool-of-the-1/5329497) still looking for the leaked docs with actual evidence on the details... IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 27, 2013 01:32 PM
Well, thanks to jwhop I have discovered that while apparently Alaska, Ca and New York would all be perfect "homes" for me, one of the places I would feel at home is Peru...where gmos are now banned...part of this article suggests that the southern hemisphere will be the center of economic activity in the coming decades.Or are we all headed back to feudal days? IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 653
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted October 30, 2013 11:34 PM
The TPP sounds like the feudal option. Of course it might be much less sinister than it sounds...right?IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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