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Author Topic:   Nothing Ted Cruz Said About the ACA Today Is True
Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2476
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2013 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Wednesday morning, at the very same moment Senators Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell were on the floor announcing a deal to end the government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, their colleague from Texas Senator Ted Cruz—one of the key actors in creating this crisis—was delivering a stem-winder to reporters outside the chamber. He blasted the “Washington establishment” and repeatedly lamented the “suffering” Americans felt because of the dreaded Obamacare.

Unfortunately, virtually everything he said about the healthcare law was either directly untrue, highly exaggerated or badly misleading.

Fact-checking Ted Cruz has become old hat at this point—but sadly, not for many mainstream media outlets, who have dutifully reported on the all-encompassing, government-shutting, market-riling debate over Obamacare without actually parsing who is right about the effects of the law.

So this morning’s moment is as useful as any to examine claims that the ACA is so bad, the government almost had to default in order to get rid of it. (You can find Cruz’s full remarks here; we will just excerpt the claims about the ACA.)

CRUZ: The deal that has been cut provides no relief to all the young people coming out of school who can’t find a job because of “Obamacare.” It provides no relief to all the single parents who have been forced into part-time work, struggling to feed their kids on twenty-nine hours a week.

Obamacare is a job-killer: that is an article of faith among many conservatives. Their claims, and particularly the one Cruz is making here, is centered around the employer mandate, which requires businesses with fifty or more full-time employees, defined as those that work more than thirty hours, to provide health insurance or face a penalty. (Incidentally, this is the mandate Obama delayed for one year.)

The theory is that businesses will slash hours or reduce positions to stay under the limits for providing health insurance. (Never mind criticizing the businesses for screwing over their employees in this fashion—it’s naturally the government’s fault for imposing health coverage requirements.) That’s why Cruz is mentioning young adults and single moms—aside from being highly sought-after voting demographics for the GOP, they are also among those most likely to be searching for jobs that straddle the line between part-time and full-time.

But this isn’t actually happening on any significant scale. If it were, one would have seen the number of workers putting in twenty-six to twenty-nine hours increase in 2013, as businesses prepared for the employer mandate before it was delayed. According to a study from the Center on Economic and Policy Priorities, however, the opposite actually happened: there were slightly fewer twenty-six- to twenty-nine-hour workers in 2013 as the mandate date approached. Despite whatever individual examples Republicans may trot out, no significant amount of people are being forced to work less hours because of the ACA.

And what of positions being slashed? That is also not borne out by employment data, which shows private-sector jobs increasing at expected rates. “Health care reform does not appear to be significantly hampering job growth, at least not so far. Job gains are broad based across industries and businesses of all sizes,” Mark Zandi of Moody’s Analytics said earlier this year.

Why is all this? In part, because 94 percent of the businesses that would be affected already give health insurance voluntarily, and also because many of the rest don’t think cutting jobs and cutting hours is a particularly good growth strategy.

CRUZ: It provides no relief to all the hard-working families who are facing skyrocketing health insurance premiums…. President Obama promised the American people “Obamacare” would lower your health insurance premiums. I would venture to say virtually every person across this country has seen exactly the opposite happen, has seen premiums going up and up and up, and everyone who clicks on “Obamacare” and sees the premiums sees the premiums going up and up and up.

This is another article of faith for Tea Party types—that the ACA will skyrocket premiums.

It’s important to note off the bat that the “rate shock” being described would apply only to people buying insurance on the individual market. People who get their insurance through large employers or are on Medicare or Medicaid (i.e., a vast majority of Americans) won’t see a significant change in premiums because of ACA—job-based health insurance cost for single people rose about 5 percent last year, which is the norm.

For people buying on the individual market, through the ACA exchanges, will premiums go up? The short answer is: for some yes, for some no, and there’s usually a significant reason when premiums do go up: much more coverage is being offered. Cruz is wildly overstating his case by saying “virtually every person across this country” has seen higher premiums.

Jonathan Cohn has a comprehensive breakdown of the three major studies that have been done on this so far. What they found: sure, it’s true the “sticker price” of many individual market plans will increase, but that’s because pre-ACA, many of the plans on the individual market offered very sparse coverage and were allowed to exclude people with pre-existing conditions. Since the law beefs up coverage requirements and outlaws pre-existing condition inclusions, the sticker price goes up.

But what will also happen under ACA is that many people will get subsidies to buy health insurance—so relatively few people will actually pay the higher sticker price. The subsidies are offered at the point of purchase, not after the fact, so there isn’t any short-term burden.

In the end, many people will pay less—for example, people who are older or sicker and looking for insurance on the individual market will pay less because the ACA stops insurance companies from charging them more. People with relatively low incomes will also pay less because of the federal subsidies. People with higher incomes (more than four times the federal poverty line) might pay more because they won’t get subsidies, and the young and healthy may as well, because they were benefiting from the health insurance market that existed before, where bare-bones plans that excluded a lot of sick people were offered.

It’s also useful to note that, already, overall, the ACA premiums are less than what was expected when the bill passed.

Cruz could have a real conversation about whether preserving lower prices for the relatively affluent, young and healthy folks on the individual market is worth the extra financial burden for the older, poorer and sicker Americans—but he seems uninterested in doing that. Saying “virtually every person across this country” is seeing higher prices is wildly, wildly overstating his argument. One might even call it a lie.

CRUZ: And [the deal] provides no relief to all the seniors, to all the people with disabilities who are right now getting in the mail notifications from their health insurance companies that they’re losing their health insurance because of “Obamacare.”

Seniors and the disabled are of course on Medicare plans. So what does Cruz mean?

This is another popular Republican myth, one frequently repeated by Senator Marco Rubio, as PolitiFact noted when it flogged him for “oversimplify[ing] matters and put[ting] too much blame on the health care law.”

The short explanation of the flim-flam: since the 1970s, seniors and the disabled have been able to choose between standard Medicare or private plans financed by the government, which has been called “Medicare Advantage” since 2003. Twenty-eight percent of seniors get their coverage through Medicare Advantage now.

The ACA cut $700 billion in excess payments through Medicare Advantage (you may remember that number from the 2012 elections). The idea was to bring the cost of the private plans more in line with the cheaper government plans over time. By tightening the payments, the ACA was challenging the private companies to manage their plans better.

And the thing is, it has worked: Medicare Advantage plans have seen premiums decrease by 10 percent since the ACA was passed, and 28 percent of the plans have been upgraded to a higher star rating since 2010, meaning they are offering better services. Seniors are responding: enrollment in Medicare is at an all-time high, up 30 percent since the ACA was enacted.

Now of course, some (but not many) health insurance companies have elected to dump seniors off their current plan and create a new one more in line with ACA requirements. That’s what Cruz is referring to, and it’s no doubt an inconvenience, but the net effect for Medicare Advantage customers, again, is cheaper plans with more services. The seniors and disabled losing their current Medicare Advantage plan can stay with the new plan being offered by their health insurance company, or chose from another Medicare Advantage plan during open enrollment, or just go on standard Medicare.

It’s not at all the situation being portrayed by Cruz, in which he warns of seniors “losing” their health insurance. He’s once again walking right up to the line of mendacity, and failing to explain what’s actually going on.

CRUZ: People all over this country are losing their health insurance. Fifteen thousand UPS employees got a notification in the mail that they were losing spousal coverage, that their husbands and wives were all losing the health insurance that they wanted and they liked. That is happening all over the country. It’s wrong.

Indeed, UPS said in August that it was ending spousal coverage for 15,000 employees and blamed, in part, the ACA. But Cruz isn’t telling even one-tenth of the story.

Once again, we turn to Jonathan Cohn. Here’s what’s important to understand: first, long before Obama became president, companies were jettisoning spousal coverage plans. That type of dual-coverage was a relic of the days when only one spouse (usually the man) worked, but as more women headed to the workplace, such plans became an increasingly expendable option.

No doubt the health law is imposing some additional costs on employers, though once again Cruz elides any debate over the benefit trade-offs involved. But even UPS is emphasizing (not that Republicans will listen) that the ACA isn’t a controlling factor in ending spousal benefits. “One way of saying this is that we are restructuring our benefits ‘because of the ACA’—but that’s not accurate,” Andy McGowan, a UPS spokesman, told Cohn. “We are doing this because we are looking at many different factors adding to our costs, and ACA is one of them.”

Finally, you might have wondered if UPS only has 15,000 employees. It does not! The company is only ending the benefits of spouses who already have a job where they can get health insurance. In other words, not a single person is actually losing coverage because of this move. Cruz doesn’t mention that.


http://www.thenation.com/blog/176711/nothing-ted-cruz-said-about-aca-today-true

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6738
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted October 28, 2013 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another bogus fact check from the fact-less Washington Post. Too bad their noses don't grow with every lie they tell. They'd need a trailer just to haul their long noses around.

"CRUZ: The deal that has been cut provides no relief to all the young people coming out of school who can’t find a job because of “Obamacare.” It provides no relief to all the single parents who have been forced into part-time work, struggling to feed their kids on twenty-nine hours a week."

This is true. O'Bomber's Abomination is the biggest job killer in America. Further businesses are cutting hours to get below the 30 hour per week mandated for full time employees under O'BomberCare. Businesses are not hiring...especially small businesses which produce about 75% of all new jobs. They can't afford to pay O'BomberCare mandated insurance for employees. AND, they already are cutting hours, laying employees off and not hiring. Are you aware there are millions fewer Americans working today than when O'Bomber began infesting the White House?

So, this report by the fact-less fact checkers has to be rated as an outright lie.

"CRUZ: It provides no relief to all the hard-working families who are facing skyrocketing health insurance premiums…. President Obama promised the American people “Obamacare” would lower your health insurance premiums. I would venture to say virtually every person across this country has seen exactly the opposite happen, has seen premiums going up and up and up, and everyone who clicks on “Obamacare” and sees the premiums sees the premiums going up and up and up."

This is true as well. Perhaps the morons over at the Washington Post haven't gotten the news yet that out of 50 states, O'BomberCare premiums are going up in 45 states and I mean up, up, up..as much as 254% higher.

Too bad you can't find a source capable of telling the truth...about much of anything. The Washington Post is not into telling the truth.

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2476
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2013 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I notice you have nothing salient to add or rebut about facts made by the writer for The Nation Magazine.

Just an opportunity to have your rhetorical template repeated.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted October 28, 2013 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I notice you didn't attempt to refute the FACTS I posted.

To bad for leftists but Ted Cruz is right and leftists are wrong. Relying on leftist morons at the Washington Compost isn't going to win you any debate points.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 871
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted October 29, 2013 01:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop why do you keep talking about the Washington Post?

New jobs being created every month even this month of the Shut Down when people were well nervous about what would happen next...

As to those layoffs a huge portion started before anyone knew anything about the ACA, based on rumours and speculation by the gossipmongrel press and blogs.

but are you answering a post on a different page? THERE IS NO WASHINGTON POST HERE

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted October 29, 2013 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, you mean it's the lying fact-less checkers at Nation and not the lying fact-less checkers at the Washington Post who are responsible for putting together this lying hit piece on Ted Cruz. Noted

Hahaha, new jobs are being created every month???

Well, jobs are also being lost every month and every month thousands of Americans give up on finding a job in the O'Bomber economy and stop looking.

The O'Bomber economy has not produced even ONE..(1) NET NEW JOB. In fact, there are millions fewer Americans working then when O'Bomber began infesting the White House...after almost 5 years of O'Bomber mismanagement.

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Catalina
Knowflake

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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted October 29, 2013 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The vast majority of jobs lost over the past few years have been government jobs, Federal, state and local. The private sector has continued to.add them.

But as automation and offshoring progress, more machines are taking jobs too. And with the growth of the internet, more people are working for themselves. Many without any regulstion whatsoever, part of tge cause of the proliferation of loony bloggers who stay in their homes and dream about the perilous world outside

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted October 29, 2013 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwhop:
I notice you didn't attempt to refute the FACTS I posted.

To bad for leftists but Ted Cruz is right and leftists are wrong. Relying on leftist morons at the Washington Compost isn't going to win you any debate points.


Go Ted and Ted's Dad

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Catalina
Knowflake

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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted October 29, 2013 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And the reason it matters which source, jwhop, is if you can't or won't bother to comprehend that, you are not paying attention to or don't care about the facts either.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted October 29, 2013 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which leftist source doesn't matter at all Catalina/katatonic

The left is just one big echo chamber. A leftist lies and the chorus of thousands pick up the lie and spreads the lie to the ends of the earth.

"The vast majority of jobs lost over the past few years have been government jobs, Federal, state and local"..Catalina/katatonic

What is your source for this comment?

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2476
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2013 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^
To the largest echo chamber on GU


If you cannot get the source OP right, what else do you have WRONG.

Just another deflection. That's OK you see, I trust the discerning readers. Those readers have direct quotes of Ted's statements, they know what is truth, and what is pure fiction.

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NoRainNoRainbows
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posted October 29, 2013 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NoRainNoRainbows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Where can i place bets on how long it'd be before this thread is also closed, as it's been started by one of the not so usual suspects?

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 8231
From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted October 30, 2013 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Notice Jwhop asks Cat for a source, but doesn't provide a source for his own proposed refutation of the original article.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted October 30, 2013 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To the largest echo chamber on GU

Thank you

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Catalina
Knowflake

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From: shamballa
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posted October 30, 2013 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's one of those "skyrocketing " plan costs as reported by FOX.

Greta VanS interviewed this woman regarding her plan which was $50 a month and the "replacement" which was billed at $591.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-greta-van-susteren-out-journalisms-cbs-news-on-florida-womans-junk-insurance/

video included.

Poor Bullied Insurance company was taking $50 a month for, basically nothing, the woman didn't even know what was covered (next to nothing) which would cost her a good deal more than the higher-priced ACA plan that covered everything her old plan made her pay for...

In a news cycle that has seen the supposedly “objective” news media churn out misleading, false, and deliberately incomplete reports on the health care law, Greta’s segment was the most honest reporting I’ve seen. Some more research would have been nice, but it’s an interview program.

Wemple reports, though, that “Following her chat with Van Susteren, Barrette got word from a network producer that her appointment to appear this morning on Fox News was cancelled.”

No year's salary for this victim of the ACA!

Wonder how long before Gretchen is looking for another job?

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 6738
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted October 31, 2013 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In 45 of 50 states O'BomberCare is going to cost more..up to 254% more than insurance already in force...and with higher deductibles.

Ummm, you think people who have managed the miracle of getting on healthcare.gov and found their premiums skyrocketed are lying?

Christina Leighton This "coverage" is a joke. I'm in the individual market with BCBS. I HAVE a plan THAT I LIKE AND I CAN AFFORD. Your craptastic estimate is more than double my current premium and no clue about the deductible and copays. THANKS FOR LYING. "if you have a plan you like, you can keep it. Period." YOU LIE.

Scotty Trosclair I'm a 36 Y/O man! Why do I need pregnancy insurance?!?

Kay Miller Personally I am offended by the news media today calling my existing insurance plan subpar and crappy. I have/had a top of the line BCBS Blue Advantage policy. It even covered preventive care; I didn't have to pay a dime on those services. Just because my policy doesn't cover maternity or pediatric services, which I don't need at my age, these people are calling my plan substandard. Well, you know what, I liked my crappy plan so much that I bought another crappy 2013 plan which will provide me with another year of crappy healthcare benefits at a reasonable cost!

Kay Kendrick I am fortunate to work for Google, our family health plan cost $1949 per month which Google pay most of. We will be hit with a 40% Cadillac tax in 2018 for having great insurance, so to prepare for that our benefits are being trimmed and premiums increased. Starting next year we will for the first time have a deductible and coinsurance on top of the high monthly premiums.
I realize I don’t have much to complain about, but considering the high premiums we already pay, you would think we pay enough, but you’d be wrong, the Cadillac tax will hit us HARD which will affect profit sharing, raises and ultimately companies bottom line. My family will now pay an additional $1500 per year for less coverage on top of the $23,388 yearly premium.
I can afford to pay more so it’s ok, but enough is enough, health coverage shouldn’t cost a brand new car every year. If you want to make health coverage affordable, then fix hospital billing, it shouldn’t cost $6000 to recover in a room for 6 hours, I mean come on, I didn’t even sleep there.

David Hickle The cookie is crumbling... CNN had a wonderful report on a staunch supporter of "OBAMACARE" on about how her insurance company dropped her being that her policy didn't meet the standards of Obamacare and the what will is almost 3X what she payed before... The kicker she gets no subsidy... 2014 midterms are gonna be something special....

Jenna Logan Why can't I SEE the cost and possible subsidies, WITHOUT applying first? That is like paying for your new car, without going to the dealer...

Rita Northrup I am not upset about a website.I am upset that my single son lost a perfectly good insurance ,paid by employer because it did not provide maternity coverage.He is 50 and single for Gods sake.Now he will get hit $475.00 monthly for a lousy policy with less coverage.This stuff has reached far beyond political parties.It is destructive to the working classes life.The only party group out there is ,one more time,the group that doesn't have to pay for it.

Tonya Weatherly Aberli The premiums are very high! And if you are eligible for healthcare coverage with your employer you are not eligible for a reduced premium even if you employer coverage costs are high.

These are just a few of the joyous O'BomberCare comments.

https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov

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