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Author Topic:   Putin to Obama, Knock-Knock
Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 05, 2014 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

So... What do you think is going to happen?

World War 3 and nuclear winter for everyone?

Or is this just a Russian demonstration of power?

Is the Ukrainian "government" turning into the muppet show?

Will the "Iron Lady" be able to deter the red threat?

Or should we all just take a chill pill?

- Sorry, I couldn't resist.

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Randall
Webmaster

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted March 05, 2014 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obama is an impotent leader. Nuclear winter is a myth. And no one is crazy enough to use them. We can't force a sovereign nation to do anything.

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Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 05, 2014 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Obama is an impotent leader. Nuclear winter is a myth. And no one is crazy enough to use them. We can't force a sovereign nation to do anything.

I'm just making fun here, Randall. Just wondering what you think is going on, is all :-)

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Randall
Webmaster

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted March 05, 2014 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just think there's a lot of posturing. But I fear that had Obama been President in the 60s, the fallout (pun intended) from said posturing would have been tragic.

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2666
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2014 07:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crimea river

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YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake

Posts: 7006
From:
Registered: Oct 2011

posted March 06, 2014 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are 1.2MM ethnic Russians in Belarus or 11.4% of the population. I'll say that he'll go after every Baltic State that has a large ethnic Russian minority. These include Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, in addition to Belarus. That way he can occupy and impose a referandum where one of his lackeys can become the democratically elected head of state. And then he creates his new semi-capitalist, semi-socialist Union.

There is nothing that America or the EU can do. The US does not have the moral imperative to intervene and the UN is a weakling.

And the six F-15s that Obama sent to Poland, Russia would shoot them down in a millisecond, even at the cost of a dozen Su27s and old MIG-29s. Conventional aircraft (not F22 or F-35) have no stealth capability and no answer for the Russian S-400/SA-21 SAM system.

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pire
Knowflake

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From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 06, 2014 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am scared of what I hear, but when emotions pass, I am hopeful for a positive outcome. let's hope we we'll all have a fast emotional processing and get quickly to reason

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Randall
Webmaster

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted March 06, 2014 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He's rebuilding the Soviet empire. All we can do is pretty much stand on the sidelines and watch.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1834
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 06, 2014 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Russia has ever been so. Before during and after the Soviets. BUT this is not so simple as empire building, either. The US & friends may have been the instigators and Putin standing up to them.

Since we don't know yet, it would be foolish to call the game at this point.

Apparently by Agreement, Russia is allowed to have 30,000 troops in the area,and they don't have that many there, nor has anyone been shot since they arrived. Maybe he really is just keeping the peace and protecting Russians.

The new "acting president" in Ukraine, unlike the ousted one, is not legitimately elected...tho many believe no election that Putin is involved in even indirectly could be called "legitimate" in any way...

They are all still playing toy soldiers if you ask me.

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PixieJane
Moderator

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From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted March 06, 2014 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How the internet reacted to the invasion:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/how-the-internet-reacted-to-russia-invading-ukraine

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Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 07, 2014 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^

Personally, I was all for the chill pill approach, I mean...

I kept thinking no one would be so stupid as to start a larger war. I mean, what gives? We've been through this before and it wasn't fun. But then I realized people are kind of stupid, and there has hardly ever been two generations without a war.

So when I found this I started freaking out a little bit.
http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/25-03-2011/117328-third_world_war-0/

I'm going with it's BS, but still... It got me thinking... It's not unimaginable.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1834
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 08, 2014 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The same Neocons who want an American World Order, who would have you believe Obama is both dictator and wimp, involved in setting up the recent coup in Ukraine?

I've been saying for some time now that Putin and Obama worked together to divest Assad of his chem weapons and I think they are also cooperating over Snowden and other matters...BUT they can't be seen to be doing so for pragmatic reasons.

The distorted admiration for Putin (wrestling bears is a sign of wise leadership HOW?) as a way of ridiculing our own President is totally a Neocon meme.
http://egbertowillies.com/2014/03/07/ukraine-obama-putin-crimea/

A world where Russia (they were Commies once) and America work side by side? We can't have that!

Obama is a powergrabber but Putin is manly in his decisiveness...the muscular Russian must have the advantage over the skinny American, especially when it takes no muscle at all to give orders to one's military, right?

Time will tell but I think hindsight will show who the real traitors are, though they hide behind the propaganda against one man who cannot possibly be what their twisyed, contradictory caricatures insist.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1834
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 08, 2014 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For Node and others who haven't been able to access Willies in the past i will copy the text when i get on a bigger screen...

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Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 08, 2014 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:
A world where Russia (they were Commies once) and America work side by side? We can't have that!

Why not, exactly? We live in a "World of Our Making", and "Anarchy is what states make of it". I think such statements are pretty silly. Of course it is better if the two countries can cooperate! No one wants the tension we have now, we can't afford it!

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 8616
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 08, 2014 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Whoops

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2666
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 08, 2014 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Sibyl:

I think you are misinterpreting Cat's tongue~n~cheek. firmly planted

She's a cheeky lass, and was being ironic....

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Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 08, 2014 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah... That makes sense. I'm not very good at sarcasm. -.-

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2666
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 08, 2014 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^That is true of Aqua's that I know.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 1834
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 08, 2014 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He starts with the meme Sybil posted up top. As an example of the general rightwing attitude re Putin outperforming Obama(the wimp dictator, yknow)

I received the following meme from several of my Right Wing friends today. I love the back and forth between my Conservative and Right Wing friends. We generally have fun with each other. While I tend to frequent both their sources of information (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and paid Koch trolls) as well as other traditional sources, I find it astounding what is occurring.

I really do not mind having fun with the big government small government debate. I don’t even mind when they call me the Pinko Liberal. In the abstract it does not hurt, kill, or maim.

The Right Wing dialogue about the Obama/Putin feud is disconcerting on many levels. It is sad. It is not only unseemly, disloyal, and unpatriotic, it is outright dangerous. When one’s hate for one man supersedes national security it puts much into question. Over the last few weeks Fox News characters have been exalting Putin’s fortitude versus President Obama’s mom jeans wearing lack of potency. Worse was Rudy Giuliani’s praise of Putin for irresponsible ill-planned behaviors.


Giuliani: But he makes a decision and he executes it, quickly. Then everybody reacts. That’s what you call a leader. President Obama, he’s got to think about it. He’s got to go over it again. He’s got to talk to more people about it.

A Move To Amend colleague sent me Robert Parry’s latest article on the Ukraine debacle. It is a very complex issue that most Americans will never see via the traditional media owned by the corporatocracy. Robert Parry is the AP reporter that broke the Iran-Contra scandal. He got so fed up with a lousy press that he started Consortiumnews.com to provide real journalism untainted by the corporate masters.

In his long article from a few days ago titled “What Neocons Want from Ukraine Crisis” he explains in detail the machinations surrounding the Ukraine crisis. It bears very little resemblance to what is being reported by the lightweights in the traditional media and the misinformation from the Right Wing media.



Robert Parry reports that the election of President Obama threw a wrench into the plans of the neocons.


The neocons were dealt another setback in 2008 when Barack Obama defeated a neocon favorite, Sen. John McCain. But Obama then made one of the fateful decisions of his presidency, deciding to staff key foreign-policy positions with “a team of rivals,” i.e. keeping Republican operative Robert Gates at the Defense Department and recruiting Hillary Clinton, a neocon-lite, to head the State Department.

While the neocons were hyperventilating about Obama’s weakness, the president had a two tiered foreign policy. One was visible and the other was a special relationship with Putin that actually showed results.


Though I’m told the Ukraine crisis caught Obama and Putin by surprise, the neocon determination to drive a wedge between the two leaders has been apparent for months, especially after Putin brokered a deal to head off U.S. military strikes against Syria last summer and helped get Iran to negotiate concessions on its nuclear program, both moves upsetting the neocons who had favored heightened confrontations.

Obama’s unorthodox foreign policy – essentially working in tandem with the Russian president and sometimes at odds with his own foreign policy bureaucracy – has forced Obama into faux outrage when he’s faced with some perceived affront from Russia, such as its agreement to give temporary asylum to National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The praise for Putin now is nothing but a means to create a policy wedge.


If not for Putin, the neocons – along with Israel and Saudi Arabia – had hoped that Obama would launch military strikes on Syria and Iran that could open the door to more “regime change” across the Middle East, a dream at the center of neocon geopolitical strategy since the 1990s. This neocon strategy took shape after the display of U.S. high-tech warfare against Iraq in 1991 and the collapse of the Soviet Union later that year. U.S. neocons began believing in a new paradigm of a uni-polar world where U.S. edicts were law.

The neocons felt this paradigm shift also meant that Israel would no longer need to put up with frustrating negotiations with the Palestinians. Rather than haggling over a two-state solution, U.S. neocons simply pressed for “regime change” in hostile Muslim countries that were assisting the Palestinians or Lebanon’s Hezbollah.

What every American should be aware of is the part Ukraine plays in the puzzle. They should also be aware how the tentacles of the neocon portion of the American and European plutocracy is causal as opposed to just an organic populous movement.


The neocons came to recognize that the Obama-Putin tandem had become a major impediment to their strategic vision.

Without doubt, the neocons’ most dramatic – and potentially most dangerous – counter-move has been Ukraine, where they have lent their political and financial support to opposition forces who sought to break Ukraine away from its Russian neighbor.

Though this crisis also stems from the historical division of Ukraine – between its more European-oriented west and the Russian-ethnic east and south – neocon operatives, with financing from the U.S.-funded National Endowment for Democracy and other U.S. sources, played key roles in destabilizing and overthrowing the democratically elected president.

NED, a $100 million-a-year agency created by the Reagan administration in 1983 to promote political action and psychological warfare against targeted states, lists 65 projects that it supports financially inside Ukraine, including training activists, supporting “journalists” and promoting business groups, effectively creating a full-service structure primed and ready to destabilize a government in the name of promoting “democracy.”

So what is the ultimate goal of the neocons with this Ukraine crisis?


At minimum, the neocons hope that they can neutralize Putin as Obama’s ally in trying to tamp down tensions with Syria and Iran – and thus put American military strikes against those two countries back under active consideration.

Read the entire article and contrast it with the news one sees on traditional media. It will be immediately apparent that just like Americans were played on the lead up to the War in Iraq, they are being played in the Ukrainian crisis. The big difference is that the stakes are much higher. Russia is no Iraq. Russia is strong. Russia has nukes

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Sibyl
Knowflake

Posts: 857
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 08, 2014 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Node:
^That is true of Aqua's that I know.

I can see that. And it's even worse in writing. At least seeing someone's expressions gives me a clue!

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Node
Knowflake

Posts: 2666
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 08, 2014 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The Right Wing dialogue about the Obama/Putin feud is disconcerting on many levels. It is sad. It is not only unseemly, disloyal, and unpatriotic, it is outright dangerous. When one’s hate for one man supersedes national security it puts much into question. Over the last few weeks Fox News characters have been exalting Putin’s fortitude versus President Obama’s mom jeans wearing lack of potency. Worse was Rudy Giuliani’s praise of Putin for irresponsible ill-planned behaviors.

This is true of many wingers and pissez me right on off.
It's all about party, as I have ranted before. Which is why I don't attend political parties~

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Node
Knowflake

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From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 08, 2014 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The MIC smells money.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 24, 2014 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Long - standing
Knowflake

Posts: 71
From: World person
Registered: Aug 2011

posted May 15, 2014 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Long - standing     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ordinary people in Ukrainå suffer from neo - fascists,the leader of which is in illegitimate goverment now. In Odessa only offically 46 people were killed by them in may. In Kiev it was about 150 people. Crimea took measures to protect themselves by joining to Russia.

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shura
Knowflake

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From:
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posted May 15, 2014 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/

Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer, has expanded its Board of Directors by bringing on Mr. R Hunter Biden as a new director.

R. Hunter Biden will be in charge of the Holdings’ legal unit and will provide support for the Company among international organizations. On his new appointment, he commented: “Burisma’s track record of innovations and industry leadership in the field of natural gas means that it can be a strong driver of a strong economy in Ukraine. As a new member of the Board, I believe that my assistance in consulting the Company on matters of transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion and other priorities will contribute to the economy and benefit the people of Ukraine.”

The Chairman of the Board of Directors of Burisma Holdings, Mr. Alan Apter, noted: “The company’s strategy is aimed at the strongest concentration of professional staff and the introduction of best corporate practices, and we’re delighted that Mr. Biden is joining us to help us achieve these goals.”

R. Hunter Biden is a counsel to Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP, a national law firm based in New York, USA, which served in cases including “Bush vs. Gore”, and “U.S. vs. Microsoft”. He is one of the co-founders and a managing partner of the investment advisory company Rosemont Seneca Partners, as well as chairman of the board of Rosemont Seneca Advisors. He is an Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University’s Masters Program in the School of Foreign Service.

Mr. Biden has experience in public service and foreign policy. He is a director for the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition, The Center for National Policy, and the Chairman’s Advisory Board for the National Democratic Institute. Having served as a Senior Vice President at MBNA bank, former U.S. President Bill Clinton appointed him an Executive Director of E-Commerce Policy Coordination under Secretary of Commerce William Daley. Mr. Biden served as Honorary Co-Chair of the 2008 Obama-Biden Inaugural Committee.

Mr. Biden is a member of the bar in the State of Connecticut, the District of Columbia, the U.S. Supreme Court and the Court of Federal Claims. He received a Bachelor’s degree from Georgetown University, and a J.D. from Yale Law School.

R. Hunter Biden is also a well-known public figure. He is chairman of the Board of the World Food Programme USA which works together with the world’s largest humanitarian organization, the United Nations World Food Programme. In this capacity he offers assistance to the poor in developing countries, fighting hunger and poverty, and helping to provide food and education to 300 million malnourished children around the world.

Company Background:
Burisma Holdings is a privately owned oil and gas company with assets in Ukraine and operating in the energy market since 2002. To date, the company holds a portfolio with permits to develop fields in the Dnieper-Donets, the Carpathian and the Azov-Kuban basins. In 2013, the daily gas production grew steadily and at year-end amounted to 11.6 thousand BOE (barrels of oil equivalent – incl. gas, condensate and crude oil), or 1.8 million m3 of natural gas. The company sells these volumes in the domestic market through traders, as well as directly to final consumers.

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