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Author Topic:   Libertarians
fairaqua
Knowflake

Posts: 623
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted June 26, 2014 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have 2 libertarians in big races this year here in Georgia.

Andrew Hunt for governor
Amanda Swafford for US Senate


It seems the party is gaining momentum. A lot of people are stepping out and promising a vote for the L party and a disappointing number are too scared "if I vote L the 'other' party will win"


I just want to grab and shake them shouting do you know how lucky we are to even vote? How lucky we are to even get a third choice? What are you scared of?
Take a stand! Tell the phony politicians we don't want them anymore!
Turning your back on them is the only way to weed out the crooks. Crooks like easy. Dont be an easy base. Make them win you over!


Just wonderingf anyone has swapped to the L Party or if they have been seriously debating it and what is driving your decision.

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MoonWitch
Moderator

Posts: 1736
From: The Beach
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 26, 2014 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonWitch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been Libertarian for quite a while. I don't have a problem voting for change.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 42132
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 26, 2014 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the Libertarian view of how the only laws we should have should be about the following:

1. Don't hurt anyone.

2. Don't take their stuff.

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 977
From:
Registered: Jun 2009

posted June 26, 2014 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had some Libertarians tendencies in the past but I've come to feel the movement has been co opted by anarcho capitalists. I want no part of that. I probably identify most closely with straight up anarchism. Although, to be fair, I argue with them over their incessant pc harping so ... I'm homeless.

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fairaqua
Knowflake

Posts: 623
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted June 26, 2014 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've found that true libertarians shut anarchists down pretty quick.

Plus I haven't seen or heard of radical candidates


I felt homeless at one point myself and identified myself as an R because that's what everyone around me always have.
Then I kept heating about the L party but had the fearful mind frame, if I don't vote R the Ds will win!
And while I find I like the Rs more than the Ds, they have basically become one in the same and they will never change anything at this point.

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 977
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Registered: Jun 2009

posted June 27, 2014 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you'd need a shovel and a graveyard to find a true libertarian. In my experience, libertarian has, by and large, become code word for right wing proprietarian. (See Randall's #2)

quote:
And while I find I like the Rs more than the Ds, they have basically become one in the same and they will never change anything at this point.

I'm with you there.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 42132
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 27, 2014 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't assault or kill. Don't steal. These are the two main reasons for laws according to Libertarians.

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fairaqua
Knowflake

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posted June 27, 2014 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like how they take the non-religion approach to government.
You can not force morals through laws.
People evolve faster than the government and will ALWAYS find a way around laws.


I also like how they see a lot of government agencies as wasteful spending.
They like open markets with very limited restrictions.

They are pretty solid on the 1st and 2nd Amendments. That's pretty much a win.


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PixieJane
Moderator

Posts: 4752
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted June 27, 2014 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I can tell the party itself is pretty much just a way to trick people who aren't willing to support Republicans to support Republican issues. I expect they steal very few votes from Republicans as those who vote LP aren't likely to vote Republican anyway, but this way they can still harness the people in this camp to support issues and run grass roots campaigns that help facilitate an authoritarian right wing agenda.

The LP seemed benevolent but when I tried getting more involved with them as a volunteer a different picture emerged. They were pretty Republican in general (if less uptight) and seemed more concerned about big biz being taxed and regulated than anything else (at least this was where their real efforts went once the talking was done, they essentially promoted the same issues as Republicans while ignoring libertarian issues that weren't). And my suggestion that they worry about subsidies for the rich before the poor fell on deaf ears. While they gave theories on how a community could hold a corporation responsible for abuses with libertarian values they never worked to help turn those theories into practice (because frankly they were rich people not wanting to be held responsible for their actions). So it wasn't long before I distanced myself from the LP and had little to do with them, though I tended (not always) to vote libertarian.

And then the LP chose--even "drafted" in their own words--Bob Barr as their choice of POTUS. This is the guy who voted for the USAPATRIOT Act, has a long history strongly supporting the war on drugs, tried making burning the flag a crime (an amendment that would give added powers to the government rather than binding it), attacked public art that he felt was too erotic or blasphemous (as opposed to public art in general), tried to make the military outlaw Wiccan practices on government property, and is so anti-gay that he was even the author of the Defense of Marriage Act (where he used government legislation to counter free market forces that were allowing, or about to allow, gay marriage to those vacationing in Hawaii--can't get anymore anti-libertarian than opposing the free market!).

I wasn't the only one who was shocked at their nominating Bob Barr, but then I watched grudgingly impressed as the LP propaganda machine went into full motion trying to rewrite all that Bob Barr stood for (and forgetting the advice they give of look to a politician's voting record than his promises). It was downright surreal, but for all their well funded efforts they couldn't block his voting record and such on the internet and that stood in stark contrast to how they tried to rewrite Barr overnight to make him palatable (and yet it still worked). At that point I saw the LP as a big con who knowingly and willfully lied to people like me and I've since refused to even give them (and their candidates) the benefit of a doubt anymore.

The LP (Libertarian Party) shouldn't be confused with "small-l libertarians" who are generally outside the system and tend to not vote anyway (and call themselves "small-l" to show they're not to be confused with the LP).

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fairaqua
Knowflake

Posts: 623
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted June 29, 2014 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I googled Barr and I saw where he flip flopped back and forth from R-L-R

I didn't see where the L party supported him, but the was back 6 years ago before I became involved in politics.


With all the L groups I've partaken in I haven't seen this man's name come up one single time.
Gary Johnson, yes
Ron Paul, yes
Rand Paul, yes
Ted Cruz, yes
...Those are of course current active politicians (with the exception of ron)


If you are going to hold the Ls accountable for ONE flip flop that ran, man; you must be holding every part accountable for every flip flop that's run, and that's a lot!


I myself voted for mitt back in '12.
I regret it.
He was questionable on the 2ndA and he was for universal healthcare.


Now that I have actually taken the time to learn about politics, nope.
Wouldn't have voted for him for nothing.

I just think we as voters need to start holding out parties more accountable for who they are running.
Voting out of fear will never do that

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PixieJane
Moderator

Posts: 4752
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted June 29, 2014 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He's not the only reason, he was just the straw that broke the camel's back (and he was pushed hard back in 2008). Furthermore, it wasn't just that Bob Barr was pushed, it was how fast Libertarians capitulated to the party propaganda. (Not all, but enough that the party was able to move forward and get away with it.) But much more importantly it was the other reasons I gave, which were but a very brief summary, in which I see the LP as a con game for the authoritarian right to manipulate those who otherwise would not support their cause.

And yes, I will hold them accountable for Bob Barr as well as for every other reason. I'm not going to give them a pass simply because they have some pretty rhetoric that they have no intention to living up to, especially when I see how they're manipulating their base dishonestly.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7321
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 30, 2014 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
fairaqua:

You've had a chance to see the Marxist Messiah in action for more than 5 years of his failed presidency.

Are you saying that even knowing what you now know about O'Bomber, you still wouldn't have voted for Romney?

Daffy Duck is more rational and would have been a better president than the Marxist Messiah, O'Bomber.

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fairaqua
Knowflake

Posts: 623
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted June 30, 2014 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I am saying that even after seeing Obama in action all this time I still should not have voted for Romney.


He was not going to be the true change America is going to need, more of a delayed band-aid.
Sure he wanted to return some power to the states, but on a lot of important issues he was an iffy candidate.
I liked a lot of things about him, but when it comes down to it I want a candidate that is ready to rip the band aid off

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7321
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 30, 2014 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello fairaqua, is the Marxist Messiah O'Bomber the "change" America needs?

Question, in what arena of presidential governance is O'Bomber superior to a Mitt Romney presidency??

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fairaqua
Knowflake

Posts: 623
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 01, 2014 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fairaqua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you think I like Obama?

My hatred seethes for the man like no other.

What I am saying is, just because Romney was a little better than Obama on a few topics does not make him the man the United States needs.

I think Romney is a great man in his private life. Awesome family man, good looking guy, Awesome set of personal beliefs...

Just his policies ... well a lot of them, they aren't what the US needs.

I'm NOT saying he doesn't deserve a place in the cabinet, I definitely think his opinion is one of value

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