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Author Topic:   panic stations and witch hunts
Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 07, 2015 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This article focuses on America but I think it's a universal problem in developed countries.

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/07/9_senseless_social_panics_that_did_lasting_damage_to_america_partner/?utm_

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7960
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 09, 2015 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hahaha, the drunks at Saloon are wrong again..or should I say always!

Joseph McCarthy was absolutely right about Soviet spies being highly placed in the US State Department and other powerful US agencies.

The Verona papers made that crystal clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 09, 2015 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And he was absolutely wrong in persecuting most of the people he did...ask Nancy Reagan about those days.

So, you agree Ike was a Commie Pinko too? I'm afraid jwhop you are a willing victim of fearmongering ... maybe you don't fall for every one but you are walking putty all the same.

I Don't think it's Crystal clear that hounding citizens because they disagree with your politics is ok. But this article is not about McCarthy but the fear he was a SYMPTOM of.

Remember those ridiculous nuke drills "duck and cover"? er"

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 09, 2015 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The article is not about McCarthy - right or wrong - but the Culture of fear and fearmongering which is used to dupe the reactive into giving up rights. Any thoughts on the topic, or do you want to debate your opinion off McCarthy till the cows come home?

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7960
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 09, 2015 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Verona Papers make it clear Joseph McCarthy was right about Soviet spies having penetrated the US government.

There's just no way around the truth. Even for those who wouldn't touch the truth with a 10 foot pole.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 10, 2015 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why dont you start a thread about the VeNona Papers? Im sure it wOuld be fascinating but it has nothing to do with this thread or indeed with the atmosphere of witch hunt that was the McCarthy Method and made life miserable - and dangerous - for many innocent people, and scared millions who should have had nothing to fear. It made a mockery of freedom of association and speech and falsely accused loyal citizens, made it hard for them to get work, and turned people into snitches and gossips of the worst order.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 10, 2015 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"... names ostensibly deciphered from codenames contained in the Venona project, an American government effort from 1943-1980 to decrypt coded messages by intelligence forces of the Soviet Union. To what extent some of the individuals named in the Venona papers were actually involved with Soviet intelligence is a topic of dispute.

Apparently one of the authors of the list has an "evolving" view of the original information which relies on how well the code crackers did their job.


Meanwhile the main effect of the witch hunt was to punish People for the great crime of having met or known an ALLEGED communist, dividing the public and keeping them in ongoing Paranoia Mode.

Are you fully paid up with the Birchers, or just sympatico?

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 10, 2015 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

HARVEY KLEHR: As far as we can tell, of all the people that McCarthy named as possible Soviet agents, only a tiny, tiny handful, perhaps two or three, are revealed in Venona. You would have thought that there were so many people that if you threw a dart you'd hit more real spies by chance.

Not so vindicating of McCarthy..who the real spy hunters didn't even tell about the list for fear he would ruin their investigation.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2904_venona.html

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7960
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2015 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a couple of Soviet spies you say?

Here's the list of "just a couple".

As usual, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.

John Abt**[2]
Solomon Adler**[2]
Rudy Baker**[2][3]
Joel Barr[2]
Alice Barrows[2]
Theodore Bayer, President, Russky Golos Publishing[2]
Cedric Belfrage[2]
Elizabeth Bentley[2]
Joseph Milton Bernstein[2]
Earl Browder,[2] American communist and General Secretary of the Communist Party USA from 1934 to 1945.
Paul Burns**[2][4]
Sylvia Callen**[2]
Virginius Frank Coe[2]
Lona Cohen**[2]
Morris Cohen**,[2] Communist Party USA & Portland Spy Ring member who was courier for Manhattan Project physicist Theodore Hall.
Judith Coplon[2]
Lauchlin Currie,[2] White House economic adviser to President Franklin Roosevelt and director of World Bank mission to Colombia.
Byron T. Darling**[2]
William Dawson,[2] United States Ambassador to Uruguay
Eugene Dennis[2]
Samuel Dickstein**[2]
Martha Dodd**,[2] daughter of William Dodd, who served as the United States ambassador to Germany between 1933 and 1937.
William E. Dodd, Jr.[2]
Laurence Duggan,[2] head of the South American desk at the United States Department of State during World War II.
Eufrosina Dvoichenko-Markov[2]
Nathan Einhorn[2]
Jack Bradley Fahy[2]
Linn Markley Farish, senior liaison officer with Josip Broz Tito's Yugoslav Partisan forces[2]
Edward J. Fitzgerald[2]
Charles Flato[2]
Isaac Folkoff[2]
Jane Foster[2]
Zalmond David Franklin[2]
Isabel Gallardo[2][5]
Boleslaw K. Gerbert[2][6]
Rebecca Getzoff[2]
Harold Glasser,[2] U.S. Treasury Dept. economist, United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) spokesman.
Bela Gold[2]
Harry Gold,[2] sentenced to 30 years for his role in the Rosenbergs' ring
Sonia Steinman Gold[2]
Jacob Golos,[2] "main pillar" of NKVD spy network, particularly the Sound/Myrna group, he died in the arms of Elizabeth Bentley
George Gorchoff[2]
Gerald Graze**[2][7]
David Greenglass,[2] machinist at Los Alamos sentenced to 15 years for his role in Rosenberg ring; he was the brother of executed Ethel Rosenberg
Ruth Greenglass[2]
Theodore Alvin Hall,[2] Manhattan Project physicist who gave plutonium purification secrets to Soviet intelligence.
Maurice Halperin,[2] American writer, professor, diplomat, and Soviet spy (NKVD code name "Hare").
Kitty Harris[2]
Clarence Hiskey**[2]
Alger Hiss,[2] Lawyer involved in the establishment of the United Nations, both as a U.S. State Department and UN official.
Donald Hiss**[2]
Harry Hopkins,[2] One of FDR's closest advisers & New Deal architect, esp. Works Progress Administration (WPA); as a diplomat in charge of relations between FDR and Stalin his name naturally appears on the list.
Louis Horwitz[2]
Bella Joseph**[2]
Emma Harriet Joseph[2]
Gertrude Kahn[2]
Joseph Katz[2]
Helen Grace Scott Keenan[2]
Mary Jane Keeney[2]
Philip Keeney[2]
Alexander Koral**[2]
Helen Koral[2]
Samuel Krafsur[2]
Charles Kramer[2]
Christina Krotkova[2]
Sergej Nikolaevich Kurnakov[2]
Fiorello La Guardia,[2] mayor of New York City
Stephen Laird[2]
Oscar Lange[2]
Richard Lauterbach, employee at Time magazine[2]
Duncan C. Lee[2]
Michael S. Leshing[2]
Helen Lowry[2]
William Mackey[2]
Harry Samuel Magdoff[2][8]
William Malisoff, owner and manager of United Laboratories[2]
Hede Massing**[2]
Robert Owen Menaker[2]
Floyd Cleveland Miller[2]
James Walter Miller[2]
Robert Miller**[2]
Robert G. Minor,[2] Office of Strategic Services, Belgrade
Leonard Emil Mins[2]
Nichola Napoli[2]
Franz Neumann**[2]
David K. Niles
Eugénie Olkhine[2][9]
Frank Oppenheimer**[2]
Julius Robert Oppenheimer,[2] Scientific director of the Manhattan Project and chief advisor to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission.
Nicholas V. Orloff[2]
Edna Margaret Patterson[2]
William Perl[2]
Victor Perlo[2]
Aleksandr N. Petroff, Curtiss-Wright Aircraft
Vladimir Aleksandrovich Posner, United States War Department[2]
Lee Pressman[2]
Mary Wolfe Price[2]
Bernard Redmont**[2]
Peter Rhodes[2]
Stephan Sandi Rich[2]
Kenneth Richardson, World Wide Electronics[2]
Samuel Jacob Rodman, United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration[2]
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, President of the United States, his name appears on the list under the code name "capitan". (Winston Churchill's codename was "boar."[2]
Allen Rosenberg[2]
Julius Rosenberg,[2] United States Army Signal Corps Laboratories, executed for role in the Rosenberg ring
Ethel Rosenberg,[2] executed for role in Rosenberg ring based on testimony of her brother, David Greenglass
Amadeo Sabatini[2]
Alfred Epaminodas Sarant[2]
Marian Miloslavovich Schultz[2]
Milton Schwartz[2]
John Scott[2]
Ricardo Setaro[2][10]
Charles Bradford Sheppard, Hazeltine Electronics[2]
Abraham George Silverman[2]
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster,[2] U.S. War Production Board (WPB) economist and head of a major ring of spies in the U.S. government.
Cary Hiles[2]
Helen Silvermaster,[2] Leader of the American League for Peace & Democracy and the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties.
Morton Sobell[2][11]
Jack Soble[2]
Robert Soble[2]
Johannes Steele[2]
I. F. Stone,[2] Investigative journalist whose newsletter, I. F. Stone's Weekly, was ranked 16th out of 100 by his fellow journalists.
Augustina Stridsberg[2]
Anna Louise Strong[2]
Helen Tenney**[2]
Mikhail Tkach, editor of the Ukrainian Daily News[2]
William Ludwig Ullmann[2]
Irving Charles Velson[2]
Margietta Voge[2]
Henry A. Wallace
William Weisband**[2]
Donald Wheeler[2]
Maria Wicher[2]
Harry Dexter White,[2] Senior U.S. Treasury department official, primary designer of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
Ruth Beverly Wilson[2]
Ignacy Witczak**[2][12]
Ilya Elliott Wolston[2]
Flora Don Wovschin[2]
Jones Orin York[2]
Daniel Abraham Zaret, Spanish War veteran[2]
Mark Zborovski[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 10, 2015 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The bolded quote from my link was not my statement but the author of the VENONA list's. Not only did you read the name of the list wrong but you dont seem to have read what he said. McCarthy found and hounded a lot of innocent people and very few who were on the list OR real spies.

Further analysis of the list revealed that many of the people on it were not really spies but people who had passing acquaintances with spies. The FBI allowed the McCarthy RED HERRING persecution, it seems, to throw a smoke screen over their real spy hunt.

Charmed I'm sure and just exactly what this thread is about.

Thanks for the link.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 10, 2015 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harry Hopkins,[2] One of FDR's closest advisers & New Deal architect, esp. Works Progress Administration (WPA); as a diplomat in charge of relations between FDR and Stalin his name naturally appears on the list.

In fact i dont think you bothered to read the list very carefully either. Many of the names are people who had COMMUNICATIONS with Russia/Stalin...as is Normal In The Execution of their Government Job Descriptions.

They are not all spies by a long shot.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7960
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 11, 2015 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what's your point?

Are you seriously attempting to assert that the people on that list are only mentioned in the Verona Papers because they were part of the US government whose government jobs required them to have dealings with the Soviet Union?

That's not going to fly!

Joseph McCarthy was right. The US government was penetrated by Soviet spies, some in high positions in the US government. Others worked on critical weapons programs...like the Manhattan Project to produce nuclear weapons.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2759
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 11, 2015 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While McCarthy was running his three ring circus and innocent Americans losing their jobs and many afraid to speak their minds for fear of persecution, whike others gladly snitched on their neighbours for imaginary shady doings, the FBI were quietly doing the real spy hunting.

my point is that fear is used to keep people - The People - divided.

When you spell Venona right I might believe that you are capable of reading with comprehension. As it is, your complete inability to follow the thread and not your preconceptions. .renders you irrelevant.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 7960
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2015 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, you mean those innocent ones accused of being Communists like O'Bomber's political mentor..Frank Marshall Davis. Or, perhaps you mean the innocent ones like the domestic terrorist Communist bombers Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn who launched the Marxist Messiah's political career. Or perhaps you mean those spies for the Soviet Union who were executed for giving America's nuclear research secrets to the Soviet Union.

There were a hell of a lot more Communists in the US government who were never accused of anything than there were innocent people accused by McCarthy.

Leftist airheads have been pi$sing and moaning about McCarthy since the 1950s but when the government of the Soviet Union fell, their records were opened up to researchers and guess what???

Joseph McCarthy was right, leftist airheads were wrong and American Communists who denied their Communist connections were lying to protect their sorry as$es.

Regarding leftist airheads, this term comes to mind. They are really..."Useful Idiots". If you look like a duck, walk like a duck and quack like a duck, you're going to be called "a duck".

If you leap to the defense of every Marxist Socialist Progressive and defend all their idiot initiatives and cheer the weakening of America, then you're going to be lumped in with those idiots...like the Marxist Messiah.

March 12, 2015
Obama, Selma, and Anti-Communism as Racism
Paul Kengor

When Rudy Giuliani dared to name Frank Marshall Davis (Communist Party card no. 47544) as an influence on a young Obama, liberals ripped their garments and wailed “blasphemy!” Rudy’s unpardonable sin reminded them of all sorts of noxious behavior. And in some cases, it reminded liberals of -- what else? -- racism.

“This week’s race to the bottom, led by former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, is proving why Americans are learning to hate politics and the media,” stated Chuck Todd on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “Giuliani even used an old racial dog whistle of the Civil Rights era, communism.”

To illustrate Rudy’s effrontery, Todd played a clip of this blatant display of racism: “[Obama’s] grandfather introduced him to Frank Marshall Davis,” said Rudy, “who was a communist.”

Can you imagine? Have you ever seen such transparent race-baiting? There Rudy was, blowing that “old racial dog whistle of the Civil Rights era, communism.”

For those appalled that liberals would equate anti-communism -- actually, truth-telling about a genuine communist influence on Obama -- with racism, you should know that this is nothing new. Frank Marshall Davis himself mastered the tactic. Ironically, Davis did so counting on non-communist liberals (the communists called them dupes) to join the chorus, screaming “racism” at those who dared point out the work of communists.

But equally intriguing, Barack Obama himself might have alluded to this in his Selma speech.

Before considering Obama and Selma, I’d like to first illustrate how Davis used this insidious form of communist race card. It’s quite revealing.

In reply to accusations of his pro-Soviet/pro-communist work, Frank Marshall Davis regularly charged accusers of being motivated by racism. He did this in his many columns for the Party-line organ in Chicago, the Chicago Star, of which he was the founding editor-in-chief. He continued the tactic in his columns for the Honolulu Record. From 1949-50, Davis used the word “racist” 10 times in his Record columns. In almost every case, the charges were used to denounce anti-Soviet and anti-communist positions. They were leveled at Harry Truman’s foreign policy; at Truman’s attorney general Tom Clark, who sought out communist subversives; at Southern Democrats on the House Committee on Un-American Activities tasked with investigating Americans who swore a loyalty oath to Stalin.

Davis especially smeared Harry Truman. It didn’t matter that Truman did many anti-racist things, such as desegregating the armed forces. For Davis, Truman’s anti-Sovietism was reason to take him down. Davis titled one of his newspaper articles, “White house to white hoods: KKK hails Truman’s policy as its own.”

In his November 24, 1949 Honolulu Record column, Davis explicitly linked anti-communism to KKK membership. “For many years the Ku Klux Klan has been virtually inactive,” wrote Davis. “But recently the groups have come alive… They are trying at present to unite all under a single leadership with the slogan of ‘Fight Communism to Maintain White Supremacy.’… To reaction, any attempt to change the status quo of discrimination is Communistic.”

That Davis was employing this angle to protect himself was obvious. “[I]f you fight too hard for civil rights,” he wrote two weeks later, in a December 8 piece, “you are likely to be branded a communist.” He implied that this was why he was being branded with the “c” word. “I, personally, have no intention of letting the cry of ‘communism’ sidetrack me from my goal of complete civil rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.”

This was a maneuver by Davis to shield not merely himself but other African-American communists suspected (rightly) of being communists -- men like Ben Davis, Henry Winston, and the singing, gushing Stalinist, Paul Robeson. “Negro Americans are concerned about the growing attacks upon their rights, but they are also anxious about the growing assaults upon the liberties of many other groups,” Davis wrote in another column. “Anyone who dares to think for himself and to say what he thinks is in danger of being fired from his job, branded as a Communist subversive, and thrown in jail.”

That was hardly the case with Winston and Ben Davis, who for decades were well-known communists. No one questioned that. Regardless, Frank Marshall Davis protested, “There is no hope for Negro freedom if the liberties of our country are now snuffed out behind anti-Communist hysteria.”

Anti-communism, by this narrative, was destroying the rights of black Americans.

As transparently phony as this defense was, it has been picked up by Frank Marshall Davis’s defenders today. When Davis is mentioned in sympathetic Obama biographies -- or by the likes of Chuck Todd -- he is upheld as a civil-rights crusader who was hounded by merciless anti-communists.

With all of that said, here’s a compelling thought:

Did Barack Obama learn any of this from Davis during their many meetings together? Davis was an openly bitter man, with these feelings including America, as Obama himself notes in quoting him in Dreams from My Father.

Davis always portrayed himself as an innocent victim. In his own memoirs, he refused a direct admission that he joined the Communist Party. He still wanted people to think that allegations against him were the product of racism. In meeting with a young Obama, he likely would have given that impression of his critics.

Could that have happened? I cannot say for certain.

Nonetheless, consider this fascinating passage from Obama’s Selma statement, where he acknowledges previous fighters for civil rights:

As we commemorate their achievement, we are well-served to remember that at the time of the marches, many in power condemned rather than praised them. Back then, they were called Communists, half-breeds, outside agitators, sexual and moral degenerates, and worse -- everything but the name their parents gave them. Their faith was questioned. Their lives were threatened. Their patriotism was challenged.

Obama was speaking of the civil-rights fighters “who crossed this bridge,” most obviously in Selma, but I think he was clearly referring to civil-rights fighters generally. Was he referring to Frank Marshall Davis?

Davis constantly objected that the claims of his “Soviet Activity in the United States” (the title of the 1957 Senate Judiciary Committee report that publicly identified him as a communist), of him being a communist agitator, were mere smears to stop his patriotic civil-rights work. Obama likely knows that, and Obama would also know (as readers of this website know) that Davis in recent years has been described as a sexual and moral degenerate and worse -- everything from bisexual to a pedophile to Obama’s real father.

So, was Barack Obama in Selma referring to Frank Marshall Davis?

For that matter, was Obama possibly including himself in that passage? Take another close read. Obama has been accused of being a communist, an agitator, and (omnipresent on the internet) even of certain sexual behavior back in Chicago. His faith and patriotism have been questioned.

It’s all quite interesting.

But back to my main focus here: Note the linking of communism with racism. It isn’t new. Frank Marshall Davis himself excelled at the tactic.

So, alas, here we are shocked yet again. We can’t even identify communist influences -- men who joined the Communist Party under Stalin -- without being accused of racism. This is what leftists do. This is their “dog whistle.”

The difficult challenge of exposing painful truths from the communist era continues. As always, the enemy of those truths is the liberal left that still covers for some of the worst agitators of long ago.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/03/obama_selma_and_anticommunism_as_racism.html

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