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Author Topic:   Meanwhile in Portland
Catalina
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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 30, 2017 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The man who murdered two and hospitalized another for protecting two Muslim women from him appears to think that threatening women for being different from his idea of Real Americans was a patriotic act. Thanks very much to those who have been preaching this hate for years now and calling it news and self defense.


http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/05/30/19047259/you-call-it-terrorism-i-call-it-patriotism-jeremy-christians-arraignment-was-raucous

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Randall
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From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
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posted May 30, 2017 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fake News! Surprise, surprise--he was not from the right. This nut job actually hated Trump and supported violence against Trump supporters. He was a Bernie and Stein supporter. Right on his FB page.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91LZd9lCiH0

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teasel
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posted May 30, 2017 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Fake News! Surprise, surprise--he was not from the right. This nut job actually hated Trump and supported violence against Trump supporters. He was a Bernie and Stein supporter.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91LZd9lCiH0

Stein seemed to be a fan of the Russians, until the election was stolen. She doesn't represent Democrats or "the left".

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Randall
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From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
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posted May 30, 2017 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, but it's okay to paint all Trump supporters with a broad brush? And then use that lie to block free speech and cancel speakers? You conveniently left out that he voted for Bernie, who epitomizes the left. Today, the leftist college professor who wore a mask and attacked several Trump supporters with a bicycle chain and lock was arrested.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who called him a Trump supporter? Only you

He calls himself a patriot and champion of free speech. Sanders never stigmatized Muslims .. nor advocated punching people in the mouth

. so if he was aSanders supporter it was because he wasn't listening.

Where are you getting your fake news from? This was an eyewitness report.. which you apparently didn't read.

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teasel
Knowflake

Posts: 10102
From:
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posted May 31, 2017 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Oh, but it's okay to paint all Trump supporters with a broad brush? And then use that lie to block free speech and cancel speakers? You conveniently left out that he voted for Bernie, who epitomizes the left. Today, the leftist college professor who wore a mask and attacked several Trump supporters with a bicycle chain and lock was arrested.

Sanders was against the Muslim ban, and continues to speak out about it, and other things.

I don't lump all trump supporters together - only those who continue to reside up his backside, and agree with every awful thing he's trying to do in, and to, this country.

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Randall
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From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
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posted May 31, 2017 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two right wing speeches were denied based on this act, alluding that he was alt right. Debunked. Fake News.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I posted one of the clearest factual news stories I've seen in months. Nothing FAKE about it.

However quite a few originally Sanders supporters believed the FAKE NEWS that Trump was better than Hillary because at least he was Antiestablishment, so they did vote for Trump.

I didn't suggest he did, nor did the article. It merely reported the facts of his arraignment and his speech which sounds like it could have been lifted from any number of rabid right wing pundits and had NOTHING to do with Sanders either. It also reported the reaction of onlookers

So if you want to jump to the defense despite there being no cause at least have the form to supply some clarifying source ?

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You've debunked nothing. You've stated no case. Perhaps you're talking to someone who isn't here? WTF?

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teasel
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posted May 31, 2017 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Catalina is right. I know a few people who voted for Trump, because Sanders wasn't the candidate. They're now raving Trump loonies.

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Randall
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From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
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posted May 31, 2017 03:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The narrative is what's fake. Fake News is not just news that lies. It tells you what to think about what is reported.

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You didn't read the narrative of my post. Fake News survives because people don't pay attention.

You jumped to the conclusion that i wasTrump bashing

Because...

Fox is telling you what to think. Did you check out his FB page? I searched him

This guy is in military haircut but the face looks about right. No one who looks like the guy in my story's pic (long hair etc) comes up on the list but this face looks like him.

http://m.facebook.com/firediver81?slog=939239487863&seq=2074593199&rk=0 &st=user&fbtype=2048&fref=search

No mention ofSanders, Stein or Trump.. but a celebration of the election as Nobama Day and a lot of guns and, yes, altright sentiment. And a congratulating comment about how "we did it.. it took eight years but we did it"... as if Obama's term expiring was due to their hard work.

No idea of this is the guy, just same face and name

Maybe some other people connected him to DT. I connected him to hate for Muslims and excuses like "free speech" for being in women's face and ordering them off the train because "all you people are criminals" as was also reported by an eyewitness. The offense? One wore a hijab.

I haven't had 40 minutes to watch your clip.. work takes precedence over tv news.

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Randall
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From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
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posted May 31, 2017 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We can all agree on one thing: This guy is a nut job!

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As are, by definition, suicide bombers... it is not a specific ideology or religion but ones understanding that makes the difference

Yes?

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted May 31, 2017 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
unfortunately some nutters have a lot of company. Do you think this is going to make Muslims more or less likely to feel safe (ands therefore peaceful citizens)? While these marches may prove to be peaceful they are exhibiting the same sentiment motivating Mr Christian.

Bear in mind that shar"i'a is not embraced by most Muslims

(I wonder if that is a real or assumed name)

http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2017/05/22/anti-muslim-march-against-sharia-planned/

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Catalina
Knowflake

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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 01, 2017 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Haven't been able to get this to open. Not all Righters like Trump
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-anti-trump-right-is-becoming-a-breed-of-its-own/2017/05/31/7f3832ac-4635-11e7-bcde-624ad94170ab_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card- f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.d6e24b5c54be

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 4158
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 01, 2017 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

By E.J. Dionne Jr. Opinion writer May 31 at 7:10 PM 

Most of the conservative Republicans opposed to President Trump are writers and policy specialists. Few are politicians — or, perhaps more precisely, few of the conservative politicians who see Trump as a danger to the nation are prepared to say so in public.

So does this mean that the writerly anti-Trump right is ineffectual? Not at all. But we may be approaching a time when the gutlessness of the GOP’s leadership moves these restive conservatives to abandon their traditional loyalties altogether. It would not be the first time that a group of thinkers opened the way for political realignment.

History, it’s said, sometimes rhymes. The anti-Trump distemper on the right has some of the rhythms and sounds of an earlier intellectual rebellion in the mid-1960s involving an uneasy group of liberals. They remained staunch supporters of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal but worried about what they saw as liberal excesses and the overreach of some Great Society policies.


Over time, this collection of magazine- and university-based rebels — among them Irving Kristol, Nathan Glazer, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Daniel Bell and Norman Podhoretz — came to be known as “neoconservatives.” They were not party bosses, but they sure knew how to write essays.

The history of this movement, well-told in books by Peter Steinfels, Justin Vaisse and Gary Dorrien, is winding and complicated. Some of the neocons never abandoned liberalism or the Democrats. This category includes Bell and Moynihan, who eventually served with distinction as a Democratic senator from New York. Glazer’s views have always been hard to pigeonhole. Others (notably Kristol and Podhoretz) moved steadily toward old-fashioned conservatism. By the beginning of this century, neoconservatism came to be associated more with a muscular foreign policy than with its initial focus on domestic issues.


What cannot be doubted is that the neocons helped prepare the ground for Ronald Reagan’s political revolution. Will the anti-Trumpers (a fair number of them philosophical descendants of neoconservatism) have a comparable impact?

Much depends on whether their critique of Trump carries into a broader critique of contemporary conservatism and the Republican Party. This is already starting to happen. My Post colleagues Michael Gerson and Jennifer Rubin are representative. Gerson recently wrote: “The conservative mind, in some very visible cases, has become diseased,” while conservative institutions “with the blessings of a president . . . have abandoned the normal constraints of reason and compassion.”

Rubin charged Republicans with practicing “intellectual nihilism” and proposed that “center-right Americans . . . look elsewhere for a political home.”

David Frum of the Atlantic, another eloquent anti-Trump dissident, wrote about the “broken guardrails” of American democracy back in 2016 and argued that the conservative guardrail had “snapped because so much of the ideology itself had long since ceased to be relevant to the lives of so many Republican primary voters. Instead of a political program, conservatism had become an individual identity.”

Conservative talk radio host Charlie Sykes criticized his side for indulging conspiracy theories going back to the Bill Clinton years and for “empowering the worst and most reckless voices on the right.” He did not pull his punch: “This was not mere naivete. It was also a moral failure, one that now lies at the heart of the conservative movement.”

Evan McMullin, who ran as an independent conservative against Trump in 2016, explicitly raised the prospect of realignment in a tweet over the weekend: “In our Trumpian era, is there any longer a traditional right and left? Or are there only those who fight for liberty and those against it.”

Another factor could push the anti-Trump conservatives out of their ideological home: attacks on them from one-time comrades. Writing recently on National Review’s website, author and radio host Dennis Prager described the anti-Trump right as “a very refined group of people” who live in a “cultural milieu” in which “to support Trump is to render oneself contemptible at all elite dinner parties.” Fighting words!

Like the intellectuals of a half-century ago who developed qualms about liberalism but insisted they were still in the liberal camp, conservatives standing against Trump today still see themselves as being true to their old loyalties.

But eventually, a large cadre of those liberal dissenters accepted that they were, in fact, neoconservatives. Something similar may be happening in the other direction as members of the anti-Trump right, battling against immoderation, irrationality and irresponsibility, become ever more distant from their old allies. Let’s call them “neo-moderates.” They, too, could emerge as a major force in our politics and make a difference in our history

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