posted August 26, 2020 03:13 PM            

quote:

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Hennepin County Attorney's Office released this document. Dr. Andrew Baker, the Chief Hennepin County Medical Examiner who reviewed #GeorgeFloyd's blood test, says the substances found lead him to conclude it was an overdose death.

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posted August 26, 2020 11:05 PM            

Just being devil's advocate here, it is not unreasonable to think that the blood samples may have been tampered with. What kind of guarantee can the Medical Examiner provide that the blood sample tested was authentic and not tampered with?

And why is that finding coming out ONLY NOW? Who has been sitting on this information for so long, and why?

posted August 28, 2020 01:38 AM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
The thing is, will people believe the findings?

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BLM supporters and people who get their news from establishment media, probably not.

quote:

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And why is that finding coming out ONLY NOW? Who has been sitting on this information for so long, and why?

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Good questions. Death by drug overdose counters the desired narrative?

According to this Washington Times article dated June 1, 2020:

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The Hennepin County Medical Examiner released Monday updated autopsy results for George Floyd, ruling that he was killed while being restrained by police officers and that he had drugs in his system.

“Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,” said the examiner’s report. “Manner of death: homicide.”

The report also found that other significant factors included his underlying health conditions — Mr. Floyd suffered from heart disease — and that he also exhibited “fentanyl intoxication” and “recent methamphetamine use.”

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So, the information about drugs in his system was made public over two months ago.

But, it appears that the initial conclusion of the Medical Examiner was that Floyd's death was a homicide, whereas the document just released indicates death due to drug overdose. Obviously, this has a significant bearing on the officer being charged.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/1/george-floyd-death-homicide-h ad-drugs-his-system-m/

posted August 28, 2020 03:16 PM            

The reports speculates that had the body been found dead and alone without complications it would be deemed an overdose. Anyway, to state this is a huge leap in clinical indication when unchallenged without corroboration. Just speculation.

posted August 28, 2020 04:42 PM            

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Originally posted by MarsSaturnDelight:
Come on. Let’s be clear on this. The report (taking it at face value) does not state that it was death by overdose.

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Correct. Here is the direct quote from the Memorandum:

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AB [Dr. Andrew Baker] said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death.

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But then Dr. Baker also stated the following regarding two of the substances found in Floyd's blood:

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Methamphetamine - 19 ng/ML which he described as “very near the low end” and “a stimulant hard on the heart.”

Fentanyl - 11. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. This is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.

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Dr. Baker doesn't say that Floyd's death was due to a drug overdose, but he also says Floyd had a lethal dose of Fentanyl in his system under normal circumstances, that is, without the experience Floyd endured in police custody. So, it seems to me he didn't rule out that fentanyl may have caused Floyd death either.

posted August 28, 2020 05:09 PM            

Using the logic here, any persons with the supposed fatal levels of any supposed drug, would have died already. Which would have rendered this whole thing as a non event.

Fatal blood concentrations of any compound will take immediate effect.

posted August 28, 2020 07:06 PM            

This is interesting:

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Dr. Baker, the chief medical examiner, had to concede that at 11 ng/mL, Floyd had “a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.” He also conceded that the fentanyl overdose “can cause pulmonary edema,” a frothy fluid build-up in the lungs that was evidenced by the finding at autopsy that Floyd’s lungs weighed two to three times normal weight.

This is consistent with Officer Kueng’s observation at the scene that Floyd was foaming at the mouth and, as found at autopsy, that his lungs were “diffusely congested and edematous.”

In other words, like a drowned man, Floyd’s lungs were filled with fluid. And that was the obvious and inescapable reason why Floyd kept shouting over and over again that he couldn’t breathe even when he was upright and mobile.

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posted August 29, 2020 01:56 AM            

Cystic fibrosis patients can exhibit the same breathing problems; would they be to blame for their own death if in this situation? Would other evidence be null and void?

I want to get to the truth just as much as you and the watching world, but let’s stay objective.

posted August 29, 2020 12:10 PM            

Was this common/standard practice to kneel on someone's neck for 6-7 minutes?

-If it was, how many time has this practice been followed by the person's death whether or not it was found to be related?

If death after kneeling on neck for 6-7 minutes is an outlier or an exception, then it could be argued that Floyd's death was not due solely to Chauvin's actions but was also partly due to drugs, hence making Chauvin only partially responsible.

posted August 29, 2020 12:21 PM            

quote:

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Dr. Baker, the chief medical examiner, had to concede that at 11 ng/mL, Floyd had “a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.” He also conceded that the fentanyl overdose “can cause pulmonary edema,” a frothy fluid build-up in the lungs that was evidenced by the finding at autopsy that Floyd’s lungs weighed two to three times normal weight.

This is consistent with Officer Kueng’s observation at the scene that Floyd was foaming at the mouth and, as found at autopsy, that his lungs were “diffusely congested and edematous.”

In other words, like a drowned man, Floyd’s lungs were filled with fluid. And that was the obvious and inescapable reason why Floyd kept shouting over and over again that he couldn’t breathe even when he was upright and mobile.

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According to the Mayo Clinic, a buildup of fluid in the lungs can cause breathing problems.

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Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs. This fluid collects in the numerous air sacs in the lungs, making it difficult to breathe.

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http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pulmonary-edema/symptoms-causes/syc-20 377009

I don't think the defense will have a problem regarding reasonable doubt in this case.

posted August 29, 2020 01:25 PM            

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Originally posted by MarsSaturnDelight:

There is evident of substance abuse which may have led to complications - this and ‘death by overdose’ are two totally different things. You can’t use these interchangeably unfortunately. Additionally, fluid on the lungs affects many individuals world wide, it’s relatively common, independent of drug use too.

Cystic fibrosis patients can exhibit the same breathing problems; would they be to blame for their own death if in this situation? Would other evidence be null and void?

I want to get to the truth just as much as you and the watching world, but let’s stay objective.

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posted August 29, 2020 01:28 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
I can't imagine that kneeling on someone's neck for 6-7 minutes would not create a health emergency. I am asking the following questions not to be offensive or insensitive, but to put what happened into perspective.

Was this common/standard practice to kneel on someone's neck for 6-7 minutes?

-If it was, how many time has this practice been followed by the person's death whether or not it was found to be related?

If death after kneeling on neck for 6-7 minutes is an outlier or an exception, then it could be argued that Floyd's death was not due solely to Chauvin's actions but was also partly due to drugs, hence making Chauvin only partially responsible.

-If this was not common/standard practice to kneel on someone's neck for 6-7 minutes, then Chauvin is responsible for Floyd's death regardless of whatever condition Floyd was in.

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posted August 29, 2020 03:02 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
That’s just it: even if the kneeling didn’t cause it, it certainly didn’t help. If he said that he couldn’t breathe, before that happened, why didn’t they get him help?

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posted August 29, 2020 03:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
[QUOTE]
The problem with the "I can't breath" statement is that in the past year, people have been using it for political purposes when dealing with the police. I can't breath has become a rallying cry, a slogan, a BLM anthem, a taunt, and ultimately a way to get the police off off you. So a crying wolf situation has been created when people who might legitimately use it are not taken seriously.

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I knew that someone would mention that. It's only come up again, because of George Floyd, but I first heard it six years ago, when a friend of mine was living in New York, and he witnessed police killing a black man, who said the same thing. Eric Garner.