posted January 28, 2021 04:43 PM            

Seems to me, looking at this situation from both angles, that the appropriate response to Covid-19 would have been to concentrate help and resources to those segments of the population that were most vulnerable. This is what several noted Epidemiologists and/or Microbiologists had suggested and advocated for back in the earlier days. For some examples, Ioannidis, Bhakdi, Wittkowski, and Wodarg all spoke similarly. These are not "conspiracy theorists", they are not people calling it fake news or a hoax. Or you had people like the Nobel Science winner for discovering HIV, Virologist Luc Montagnier , come out and say that SARS-CoV-2 shows definite indications of being lab created (and just so coincidentally seemingly originated in one of the few areas with such a lab in proximity). Btw, I'm well aware of the controversy, paper retractions, etc around the above statements (my understanding that the above is not so black and white as corporate media makes it out to be. What Luc and others have said is that the Indian team that initially did research that he looked at, were pressured to drop it and they did, hence the data "disappeared"). No need for reminders. But he hasn't been the only person in such fields to observe similarly. And if it was lab created, one would expect a lot of push back and white washing from people and groups with a lot to lose if that was truth, and in danger of being exposed.

Rather than do something logical like that, we are creating conditions for a massive global depression amongst the commoners, while we KNOW and several pundits have noted, that there has again been another massive wealth grab and transfer (the last one being just post 2008).

I ask you, do you really believe that the governments of the world response to this was for the help of the common people? If so, why not the above strategy of focusing most on those that either could become severely sick or potentially die? For example, nursing homes and care facilities for the elderly.

How do people in these really benefit from lockdowns, curfews, and the like? Even with these restrictions in place, many of these kind of places in many countries have been hit very hard.

And why are we not looking at Japan more and what that situation implies? Literally they have the highest percentage of elderly people per their population as compared to every other nation, and they did not have strict lockdowns etc, and yet have fared amazingly well.

Well "masks" and "culture" you might say. I say look at China, because China is far more similar to Japan in those two areas than they are to the US and most western nations. Many of the Chinese were already wearing masks due to severe air pollution. And they had some of the most strict enforcement and lockdowns of all nations, and yet still have not fared near as well as Japan with its higher elderly population.

What is really going on with Japan? I would argue that they are more collectively healthy on average than many other nations. Consistently they show up as having lower incidences of chronic disease in various health studies. They have one of the highest longevity rates in the world. And why? Because they seem to eat better on a whole, have better attitudes, walk a lot, and have much less obesity, as compared to many other nations.

Would you really have me believe that all Japanese have stopped riding the ridiculously crowded Tokyo subways and trains since March of last year till now? Maybe reduced yes, but I doubt completely stopped.

Maybe governments in the West should be shutting down unhealthy fast food places only and promoting eating healthily at local mom and pop restaurants. Maybe healthy food at groceries should have been given subsidies like sugar, dairy, corn, etc have been.

posted January 29, 2021 06:08 AM            

The decisions taken at the start were based on the scant information known at the time. There's no way they were going to take the risk as they did not have enough information. And now it is too late to go back.

We need to move forward. We can't change the decisions that were made at a time when little was known about the virus. All we can do now is support each other, get well those who are ill, err on the side of caution considering how wide the spread (and its mutations) now is, achieve a semblance of stability, then we ask the questions that need to be asked.

posted January 29, 2021 03:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I agree. The middle way would have been better - to shield the vulnerable and let the economy tick over with the healthy. But this is in hindsight.

The decisions taken at the start were based on the scant information known at the time. There's no way they were going to take the risk as they did not have enough information. And now it is too late to go back.

We need to move forward. We can't change the decisions that were made at a time when little was known about the virus. All we can do now is support each other, get well those who are ill, err on the side of caution considering how wide the spread (and its mutations) now is, achieve a semblance of stability, then we ask the questions that need to be asked.

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Yes, but as mentioned there were noted experts from the very beginning advocating a very different response such as folks like, Ioannidis, Bhakdi, Wittkowski, and Wodarg. John Ioannidis being a particularly "big name" in the above, because he was almost single handedly responsible for helping to clean up crap science and statistics pre-Covid and got a fair amount of recognition for his work in that area. This guy reminds me of the Greeks of the ancient days--those high minded, super perceptive, philosopher-scientist types.

Also, Gate's little practice/exercise drill and "think tank" back in October 2019 dealing with a novel corona virus and world wide pandemic, and then the changes the Federal Reserve made back a bit before then (in September), among some other indications, indicate that there were some people who likely knew this was coming in a specific way.

This is a pretty good deep dive and breakdown of this foreknowledge and planning: http://youtu.be/AD0NR_NZlNc

For a more abbreviated, readable version: http://www.corbettreport.com/more-plandemic-foreknowledge/

I think these same forces that were part of the planning of this event, were also the same that pressured governments/politicians/bureaucratic health organizations to respond in the way that most did.

I don't believe in the "ah shucks, we didn't know" innocence of some of the parties involved. The average doctor etc, yes, probably totally in the dark and many relying on what they were being told by organizations like WHO (which is heavily funded by Gates) and CDC. The CDC back in March of 2019 was pressuring hospitals in the states to code any illness or any death with any covid like symptoms as being definitively "covid" caused/linked. As has been noted, there are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics, and the CDC et al. really ramped up on the latter.

And the problem is, is that most governments have not changed strategies in the meanwhile. We are relatively in the same boat as we were back when it all started.

Oh, except Gavin Newsom apparently lifted some of the draconian strictures in CA, cough cough now that Bid.. I mean the vaccine is sort of out and about. And btw, if you want a poster boy for someone with a strong psychopath vibe and manner, Newsom ticks all the right boxes ime. Especially those cold, dead, not too often blinking eyes of his, and how he appears to be almost self consciously pretending to be human.

posted January 30, 2021 02:55 PM            

And I agree with him, when you look at only one thing in isolation, there is no "smoking gun" per se, but when you look at the data from a holistic, bigger picture perspective, it does seem pretty clear that there were people that knew this was coming (because it was lab created and planned i.e. purposely released).

posted January 30, 2021 03:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Yes, but as mentioned there were noted experts from the very beginning advocating a very different response such as folks like, Ioannidis, Bhakdi, Wittkowski, and Wodarg. John Ioannidis being a particularly "big name" in the above, because he was almost single handedly responsible for helping to clean up crap science and statistics pre-Covid and got a fair amount of recognition for his work in that area. This guy reminds me of the Greeks of the ancient days--those high minded, super perceptive, philosopher-scientist types.

Also, Gate's little practice/exercise drill and "think tank" back in October 2019 dealing with a novel corona virus and world wide pandemic, and then the changes the Federal Reserve made back a bit before then (in September), among some other indications, indicate that there were some people who likely knew this was coming in a specific way.

This is a pretty good deep dive and breakdown of this foreknowledge and planning: http://youtu.be/AD0NR_NZlNc

For a more abbreviated, readable version: http://www.corbettreport.com/more-plandemic-foreknowledge/

I think these same forces that were part of the planning of this event, were also the same that pressured governments/politicians/bureaucratic health organizations to respond in the way that most did.

I don't believe in the "ah shucks, we didn't know" innocence of some of the parties involved. The average doctor etc, yes, probably totally in the dark and many relying on what they were being told by organizations like WHO (which is heavily funded by Gates) and CDC. The CDC back in March of 2019 was pressuring hospitals in the states to code any illness or any death with any covid like symptoms as being definitively "covid" caused/linked. As has been noted, there are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics, and the CDC et al. really ramped up on the latter.

And the problem is, is that most governments have not changed strategies in the meanwhile. We are relatively in the same boat as we were back when it all started.

Oh, except Gavin Newsom apparently lifted some of the draconian strictures in CA, cough cough now that Bid.. I mean the vaccine is sort of out and about. And btw, if you want a poster boy for someone with a strong psychopath vibe and manner, Newsom ticks all the right boxes ime. Especially those cold, dead, not too often blinking eyes of his, and how he appears to be almost self consciously pretending to be human.

---

The psychopathy in Newsom was never so evident as in the way he behaved when the pics of him dining maskless at that French Laundry restaurant came out.

But it's not just Newsom that's easing on lockdown as Biden is now inaugurated.

Insleee in Washington, Cuomo in NY, Lightfoot in Chicago, are all easing on lockdown restrictions, BUT the numbers of hospitalizations are currently higher than when they initially made people go into lockdown.

Awaken with JP has an excellent video on this:

posted January 30, 2021 08:22 PM            

If so it's relatively recent.

In Newsom's case, the recall petition has reached critical mass, and can no longer be ignored and blamed on rabid Trumpers. So the dems are trying to figure out in case Newsom is recalled, how they can drop him like a hot potatoe and present another democrat to run and take his place. They're being smart.

In Cuomo's case, NYT is finnally getting on the bandwagon, after ignoring the relatives of the deceased who had complained and filed suits to get the real numbers released while being ignored by mainstream media. Now that the numbers are being released due to court orders, NYT is now acting like it's regaining journalistic integrity.

posted January 31, 2021 01:47 PM            

Why isn't he staying home if he is so against the economy re-opening?

posted January 31, 2021 01:51 PM            

In Italy, the restaurant industry has defied the lockdown injunction and reopened en masse. So many of them have re opened that the police could not close them.

posted January 31, 2021 02:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
The psychopathy in Newsom was never so evident as in the way he behaved when the pics of him dining maskless at that French Laundry restaurant came out.

But it's not just Newsom that's easing on lockdown as Biden is now inaugurated.

Insleee in Washington, Cuomo in NY, Lightfoot in Chicago, are all easing on lockdown restrictions, BUT the numbers of hospitalizations are currently higher than when they initially made people go into lockdown.

Awaken with JP has an excellent video on this:

https://youtu.be/WZzufBXVa-0

---

Yup, very much agree. And as you mention later on, I think the easing of restrictions is likely also due to the 1.2+ million petition about getting him out. I didn't know that when I originally wrote the above.

Good video, had seen previously.

posted February 01, 2021 01:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
And by the way, it's not just stupid Trumpists who want the economy to re-open. The media will not tell you that in Europe, revolt is brewing.

In Italy, the restaurant industry has defied the lockdown injunction and reopened en masse. So many of them have re opened that the police could not close them.

In France, revolt is also brewing under the surface. The restaurant industry is planning on defying the government order that has them closed until April, and they are planning on re opening on February 1st.

---

Say what you want about the French and the common rudeness of theirs, especially in relation to their over attachment to their language (which I have personally experienced while hiking the Camino De Santiago and speaking Spanish to some French folks in Spain and having French spoken back), but those people don't f@ck around when it comes to government and their rights. They keep their government on their toes and a little fearful, and I think that is a very GOOD/NECESSARY thing.

It's too bad that Americans have forgotten this largely.

Imagine if millions from both the left, the right, the non directional group (smile), all banded together and stormed the Capitol, but with no guns and no violence, and said, "We do NOT agree! We want core, real change!"?

It's a pipe dream, I know. But such unified actions could help move things in the right direction, along with forcefully enacting changes to the political system such as lobbying, campaign funding, more strict term limits, etc, etc.

Biggest problem in politics par excellence, is how involved big money is with it. Until we root that out of the whole thing, it will always remain corrupt and more for the special interest groups and individuals than for "the people".

posted February 01, 2021 01:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Why are you and your dad out and about looking at all those packed restaurants if you are both so scared? Shouldn’t you both stay at home? The least you could do is go to some of those restaurants and support the people who have to make a living for their families.

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Grocery shopping. The only thing I get to do, outside of the house. Every weekend, except when the weather is really bad.

posted February 01, 2021 12:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
My dad was also an essential worker, he’s out making deliveries all week - mostly mail bags to post offices, but he was also delivering food and other things. He could have used hazard pay, health insurance, etc, and didn’t have the option of staying home, but the pubbies didn’t want them to have anything like that. We get to die for the economy. Why aren’t the pro-life lot concerned about all of the death, Randall? Why didn’t they see this as avoidable? Why don’t they want to help people to stay in their homes, and be able to get food? Why were all of the food lines acceptable, in trump’s America?

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As far as I am concerned, your dad can stop being a hero and stay home like the rest of the people who are forced to stay home if he truly feel everyone else should stay home and he is so afraid for his life. He should lead by example.

posted February 01, 2021 12:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
As far as I am concerned, your dad can stop being a hero and stay home like the rest of the people who are forced to stay home if he truly feel everyone else should stay home and he is so afraid for his life. He should lead by example.

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posted February 01, 2021 12:16 PM            

'Stay at Home' here is actually part of a wider guideline. The full statement is 'stay at home other than for essential purposes'.

I think buying groceries is kinda essential. Several jobs are also regarded as essential. I, for one, am thankful for those who have continued to provide essential services throughout the pandemic. We'd really know all about it if EVERYONE stayed at home.