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Author
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Topic: Individuation Vs Co Dependecy
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:20 AM
  
I am on the Concorde to becoming a person.I am going from 0 to 80 in a second,a minute.
Twenty years ago, A Voice came me.It said,"I will restore what the locusts have eaten"
Locusts,in the Bible ,are evil. I remember the moment, where I was sitting,what I was doing, the weather outside, raining. It came to me so strongly. Now, I am getting my sanity back.
I took so long that I despaired of it ever happening but a promise is a promise in God's economy even though time ,to Him, is very different.
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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:23 AM
I have been thinking about co-dependency a lot.
I knew I was seriously co dependent but had no idea how to break it.
I have a million books and a Masters Degree in Counseling and that did not do it.
I went to Al--Anon for 13 years and that did not do it.
I went to AA with a friend ,even though I am not an alcoholic but just stayed cuz I loved it.
AA is a "real" group if you need "real" and I did.
However, with all these attempts to get better,I never did.------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:28 AM
I remember the moment I became co-dependent.Isn't that weird to remember moments like that?
I remember the moment I went numb, too. I remember when I shifted TO being co-dependent.
I liked a boy,my first boyfriend. I was looking out the window and yearning for him.
I felt fuzzy,numb and in great angst.
I thought if I could only get him, everything would be OK.
You can be co-dependent on many things,not just people ,even though the word suggests people.
I was co-dependent on many things as most of us are.
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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh.
IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:31 AM
I went numb at 14 and co-dependent at the same time, virtually. I thought "If only"---then I will be OK.
The 'if only" at 14 was "if only" I go to a good college, THEN I will be OK.
So, I threw myself into studying and determined to go to a good college. When,I got that goal, it paled. Then,I thought if I only go to a good graduate school, married the right man,had the right career,looked the right way, was successful enough,on and on.
Everyone knows the score or most everyone  ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:34 AM
I was in a horrible marriage and tried to get out after my first son was born.
I turned to my mother for help.She said,"You made your bed,you lie in it"
I remember the moment, I gave up on my life.
It was right after my second son was born ,at the Bris, which is the Jewish ritual for circumcision.
I was standing near the food table .I thought,"Well, I will give my life up for my children and my husband.
That will be my choice and that is all right" My body did not like that cuz from that time on, I could barely eat. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:37 AM
I did normal things a mother would do, take care of kids,doing the housework, cooking meals, doing activities with woman etc.I thought that if I looked good on the outside and did all these normal things, then I would be OK ,on the inside.
My main state was numb.
It was all I had known from 14 on so it was normal ,to me. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:37 AM
dpIP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:45 AM
This is bringing me to co-dependency and individuation but I may have to go slowly cuz it is a painful trip down memory lane. I will have to stop and start as I need to in order to get to the end which is how I am now starting to be a person, an individual which is the opposite of a co-dependent. However, everyone will be co-dependent to a degree cuz we are social creatures.
It is ALL a matter of degree. I will be back cuz all of a sudden,I got too tired to go on. Coming out of numb/co-dependency is very hard,very tiring,like waking up from surgery. You feel as if you are walking underwater.You are trying to reach the surface of the water but something only lets you go so fast. I have to respect that something and so will have to write,slowly
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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:52 AM
For the people who say"Why do you write so much?
Why don't you just shut up?My answer is that as long as I am real, I have something to offer. When I cannot be real ,anymore, I will shut up.
If I ever look at a post and it is me exalting and aggrandizing myself,I will stop. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:56 AM
It is a horrible feeling to be a co-dependent.
You have a hole inside which hurts all the time.
It hurts cuz a self is supposed to be in there.
Instead, you threw yourself away, at some point,usually unknown to you. You did not do it cuz you were bad or weak, you did it to survive. Whenever you see a messed up person, they got that way to survive, not cuz they were being a jerk or an ass. They may act like a jerk or an ass.
We,all ,do.
However, what has brought that "deformed" person to that state is pure pain. Pain made them throw themselves away. As such, SOMETHING has to fill that hole. Co-dependency does. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 06:58 AM
My Higher self forgives my mother and everyone who has hurt me.
My Higher self forgives myself
My Lower self hates my mother and everyone who has hurt me.
My Lower self hates myself ,too  ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 07:03 AM
When you throw yourself away,you become co-dependent.Inside,a void has replaced the sense of yourself as a separate person. You think your "self" is not acceptable cuz you were told it/shown it enough times that you believed it. You never want to be hurt or shamed again, so you "become" this perfect person. The perfect person will look and act so good that they will never be hurt,again. That is the etiology of co-dependency, trying to avoid pain, sorrow , heartache ,despair cuz you have had so much that any more may just tip you over the edge and you don't want to take the chance. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 07:04 AM
A co--dependent is not bad, a jerk or weak.He has just lost something VERY precious along the way----his self. ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 09:30 AM
If not everyone can relate to me, that is cool.We are all different  ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
BanxxManxx
Knowflake Posts: 118
From: Center of The Galaxy
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 09:39 AM
Nice thread! Venting is god, er good.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 09:41 AM
You is cute,Boyfriend ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
coconutcancermoon
Knowflake Posts: 89
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 11:33 AM
Ami, are you a writer? This is pretty heavy stuff, really good to read. I can relate with alot of it.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 11:43 AM
Thank you ,Coconut.YOU have an apt word in due season 
Bless you!
PS No, I am not a writer but with an 8th house stellium in Gemini ,I MUST write in order to preserve my sanity LOL
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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 01:28 PM
I have been totally exhausted. My mother admitting what she did took it out of me, big.
I told her sister and my mother is hugely angry at me.
My mother may never talk to me ,again,cuz she is very competitive with her sister.
I feel a HUGE loss cuz I love my mother.I know she loves me.
Love does cover a multitude of sins. It really does.
Simple love, even though it is flawed, even VERY flawed, means a lot.
I would feel a huge loss if I could not call her.
Even though she often had bum advice, she did care.
Sometimes ,her advice was good ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 27, 2010 07:49 PM
I am gonna share what is going on with me cuz I need a place to share/write.
My mother won't talk to me ,now.I feel very sad.I wonder if she ever will,again.She cared a lot even if her advice was really whacked.
When I told her sister, I think I pushed her over the edge with shame but I needed some sane people to talk with.
Her sister is sane.
I feel such a loss of PEOPLE.
I think I have lost another friend.The person just did not like me. (It is no one here.Please,I don;t want to get in to that kind of a weird thing lol)
I mean, people are just not everyone's cup of tea ,in life.
It is still sad.
Then,another person( no one here, again lol ) is ignoring me.
I just feel a lot of pain and loss.
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Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted December 28, 2010 09:50 AM
When I was at the last conference , one speaker came in.
He said,"I don't need anything from you.I am filled with God.
I would LIKE you to like me but I don't need it"
That would be individuation i.e. not co-dependent,to me------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
A_L_F
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Jun 2010
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posted January 03, 2011 12:49 PM
I have read every post on this thread. I think it's good the way you write in small managable chunks for people. Long posts drive most people away. That's considerate of you. I suspect you didn't conciously do it, but subconciously. Interesting in your last post Ami you allude to god as not being a tool of co-dependence. I think that's only true in the purist sense. For the genuine person. The person who's personal and existential proof of god is beyond all doubt. They have individuated or self-actualised. But i think there are also alot of blind church goers etc who habitually do things of a religious leaning, but in their hearts have not 'found', nor truly believe in their hearts. These people are still co-dependent. For them god has been made a co-dependent tool. Moreover i think co-dependency is an earthly phenomenon. Objects of co-dependency are earthly things, like people, fast cars, a college, etc etc. And a false worship of god is co-dependency. Only a true worship; that is to say a heartfelt, intuitive, and existentually proven appreciation of the universe and our part in it - is individuation. IP: Logged |
A_L_F
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Jun 2010
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posted January 03, 2011 12:53 PM
Summary Suggestion:Things of earth = co-dendency (people, friends, material things, worshipping false idols, blind conformity) Things outside of earth'ly resriction = Individuation (True belief in god leading our conduct, sight, leading not following, heartfelt love) Again people probably vary more by degree than they do in kind with regard to this dichotomy. That is to say an individuated person, will still have a surface interaction with earthly things - since they are physically on earth. But they respond and interact differently, and to a much less dependent degree than a co-dependent person at a 'heart level' (i.e, their soul). IP: Logged |
A_L_F
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Jun 2010
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posted January 03, 2011 01:02 PM
Summary 2: Indviduation versus Co-Dependence is not, or should not be characterised by external practices, or habits, but soley by the 'heart state' of the individual in question.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 4809
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted January 03, 2011 01:23 PM
You know what?It is ALL heart,isn't it?
That is so simple but it will fall away,prolly,as I struggle with the ins and outs of things . In the end the heart has all the answers, if you will listen.
Thank you, A_L_F------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
Pluto conjunct Deja ,Bruh. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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