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Author Topic:   Lying the unpardonable offense?
LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 02, 2011 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just realized something awhile ago.
The relationships I have ended, be it husbands, lovers, family, friends, business.....
has been because they lied to me.
Seems I have put up with many unwanted things from folks,
but lying to me is the one thing that more often than anything else, will cause me to say bye bye to others.
I detest lies from tiny to terrible.
If someone tells me even a white lie to "spare my feelings" or whatever.....even though kindly meant by them, trust has been damaged. I cannot trust them because I have no idea of their boundaries to the action of their choosing to lie.
Anything said from thereon is suspect.
Oh I can still like such folks but never trust them.
LOL!
I suppose then, I trust only myself and a rare few others?

------------------
~Be with someone who knows what they have when they have you ♥
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
~There is no box.~H♥
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
}><}}}(*>~

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dysfunctionalmystic
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Posts: 935
From: England
Registered: Sep 2010

posted July 02, 2011 05:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dysfunctionalmystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
~

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snarly
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From: Wales, UK
Registered: Oct 2010

posted July 02, 2011 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for snarly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a huge issue for me. The first thing I tell any possible suitor is 'tell me any lies and mess me about, and you are gone.' I don't see what is so hard about being upfront with someone you are supposed to care about. I guess I'm lucky - Ive been with a plain-talking man for over 10 years, and he can make my eyes water with his honesty!

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 02, 2011 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dysfunctionalmystic
{{{hugs}}}

snarly
{{{hugs}}}

------------------
~Be with someone who knows what they have when they have you ♥
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
~There is no box.~H♥
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
}><}}}(*>~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 02, 2011 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Origins
.
Honest and for True
by John Collins

I saw an old Greek fellow wandering the streets the other evening holding a lantern out in front of himself, scanning the storefronts, alleyways, and passing cars. He looked kind of disappointed. I can't say as I blame him.

I don't mean to be a Cynic, but I think Diogenes' task of finding an honest man was probably a lot easier in his day than it is in ours. In fact, dishonesty and deception are so pervasive in today's society that we've constructed entire lexicons of larcenous and libelous language for the everyday use of politicians, lawyers, and ex-football stars.

As you've probably guessed, this issue's Origins focusses on honesty. This is apropos, actually, since the main purpose of the column is to help uncover the truth behind everyday sayings. Now, time to get to the Naked Truth.

But what is Truth, really, and why is it naked. Well, Truth, it seems, is a tall, skinny fellow, slightly balding, with a protruding Adam's apple, very scholarly and, of course, modest and reserved, though occasionally a little self-righteous. One day, lo these many years agone, Truth and his rather slovenly counterpart, Falsehood, were strolling together through the woods (they were often together, as they are quite dependent on each other — what is the light of Truth, after all, without the darkness of Falsehood against which to compare it?). They were chatting amiably, as was their wont, though not paying much attention to each other:

Truth: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty — that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need know."

Falsehood: "Truth, sir, is a cow, which will yield people no more milk, and so they are gone to milk the bull."

Truth: "If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people."

Falsehood: "In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing."

Their friendly discourse was interrupted by the appearance of a lovely lake (well, okay, the lake didn't actually appear, it was sort of already there and they just happened upon it). On a hot day such as the one on which we are visiting the companions, it was a welcome sight, and they both stripped naked — see where this is going now? — and jumped in.

Truth was splashing pleasantly about enjoying the natural honesty of the little fishies when Falsehood challenged him to swim to the other side of the lake. As it wasn't all that far (and as Truth was, truth to tell, a tad gullible), Truth took the challenge and set off for the far shore. No sooner was he twenty yards away, however, than Falsehood splashed up to the beach and stole Truth's clothes for himself, since they were much finer than his old rags.

When Truth got back from his little excursion, he saw Falsehood parading around on the shore in Truth's finery. When asked about his actions, Falsehood replied, "Since Truth is beauty, you don't need these nice clothes. You can wear mine." And with that, he walked off into the woods.

Truth slogged out of the lake and looked down at the little pile of stained robes left by Falsehood. "I would rather," he announced to no one in particular, "walk naked than wear the raiment of Falsehood!" And henceforth, he walks the earth as Naked Truth.

So, there it is, the unadulterated truth about Truth.

------------------
~Be with someone who knows what they have when they have you ♥
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
~There is no box.~H♥
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
}><}}}(*>~

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dysfunctionalmystic
Knowflake

Posts: 935
From: England
Registered: Sep 2010

posted July 03, 2011 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dysfunctionalmystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I liked that. And the bit about falsehood going off dressed as truth.

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 03, 2011 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dysfunctionalmystic:
I liked that. And the bit about falsehood going off dressed as truth.
Yes I do too but folks will too often go for falsehood disguised as truth.

------------------
~Be with someone who knows what they have when they have you ♥
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
~There is no box.~H♥
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
}><}}}(*>~

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dysfunctionalmystic
Knowflake

Posts: 935
From: England
Registered: Sep 2010

posted July 03, 2011 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dysfunctionalmystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Especially when it's wearing nicer clothes ;-)

But I know what you mean. I don't always like the consequences of being honest, especially when the liars seems to never suffer. Not that I want people to suffer...I just wish I didn't have to.

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lechien
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From: in a giant room with 2 little furry friends
Registered: May 2009

posted July 03, 2011 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i really feel with that LEXX! it's only in the last few years that i have started to get used to certain types of lies... which to tell the truth has made my life a bit easier. my partner has taught me that there are harmless good lies and bad lies. i can kind of understand that now, but before i thought he was a terrible person to have said that.

but in principle, i still believe lies are the worst evil. all the bad comes from lies. lies to others, lies to self, everything evil is caused by lies (i think).

lie, to save someone's feeling? an ex cheated on me, and i asked why he just didn't tell me. he said that he wanted to spare me from feeling bad. while that's a dog turd excuse, i lost faith because he LIED to me, not because he cheated. he was too dumb to understand the difference though. and refused to tell me who he cheated with, because with the wise tone of voice he said to me, that i should not start an ugly blame war with the girl, for it's not her fault (err, no, why would it be her fault, it was his fault). 5 years later, i'm best friends with her now. LOL

a lie is like executing someone by cutting off the head with a saw. lies always surface eventually. i find it extremely ugly and arrogant of people who lie, to extend what can be over in one quick chop of a guillotine.

truth may hurt but it's a quick smart that does not have to linger long. lies linger, cling, hang around and never go away until the truth comes out.

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted September 04, 2011 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
truth may hurt but it's a quick smart that does not have to linger long. lies linger, cling, hang around and never go away until the truth comes out.

One knows a thief is going to steal and can prepare but a liar is much worse and attacks when unexpected.

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 04, 2011 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lechien:
truth may hurt but it's a quick smart that does not have to linger long. lies linger, cling, hang around and never go away until the truth comes out.
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
One knows a thief is going to steal and can prepare but a liar is much worse and attacks when unexpected.


So very true.

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BearsArcher
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From: Arizona with Bear the Leo
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posted September 05, 2011 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BearsArcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think there is a difference between lying and not commenting. I also think there is a difference when you lie to "protect" than lying to get out of something.

I hate lying but I will lie to protect someone I love. I will lie when it serves a greater purpose but I won't lie when it comes to me. I am honest to a fault (Sag / Aries moon) but it depends. Anyone that says they never lie is a liar!

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BearsArcher:
.............. Anyone that says they never lie is a liar!

Hmmmm................
Well there are people who do not lie, believe it or not.


------------------
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
}><}}('>~

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charmainec
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From: Venus next to Randall
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posted September 05, 2011 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmainec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I find out that I've been lied to, I'm extreme and amputate that person from my life. It isn't only the lie that causes concern; it's the broken trust.

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balancingflames
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Posts: 258
From: My own world
Registered: Aug 2011

posted September 05, 2011 04:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for balancingflames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lovely story about Truth and Falsehood. That's no lie from my side.

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by charmainec:
When I find out that I've been lied to, I'm extreme and amputate that person from my life. It isn't only the lie that causes concern; it's the broken trust.
I agree

------------------
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
}><}}('>~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by balancingflames:
Lovely story about Truth and Falsehood. That's no lie from my side.

------------------
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
}><}}('>~

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balancingflames
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Posts: 258
From: My own world
Registered: Aug 2011

posted September 05, 2011 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for balancingflames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I lie therefore I sleep.

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by balancingflames:
I lie therefore I sleep.
Punny! Love homographs, homonyms, homophones!

That is no lie! And do you close your eyes once you lie down and are close to sleep?

The English language is weird.

Lying=
1.
telling a falsehood
2.
in a horizontal position

Liar=
1.
a persons who tells lies

Lyre=
1.
A harp-like musical instrument

OK, will stop now or I will get carried away!

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juniperb
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Posts: 3461
From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted September 05, 2011 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
funny, if one lies without intention... is it still a lie?


For instance, if you ask where balancingflames went to and I said off to LLC2 because he told me he was going there.
Along the way he got side tracked and never went to LCC2.

Did he lie to me or me to you???

Tricky thing a lie can be. Many many times a lie is nothing but intention vs perspective

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
funny, if one lies without intention... is it still a lie?


For instance, if you ask where balancingflames went to and I said off to LLC2 because he told me he was going there.
Along the way he got side tracked and never went to LCC2.

Did he lie to me or me to you???

Tricky thing a lie can be. Many many times a lie is nothing but intention vs perspective



I would think that intention to deliberately deceive is a lie.
Like when I say I am going to go to the store at noon.
Then my ride does not show up.
I do not feel I lied.
One cannot go about saying...
I am going to the store at noon if my ride shows up and if my ride does not show up it does not mean I lied about going........
yadda yadda yadda.
It is the deliberate falsification with intent to deceive that is a lie.

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted September 05, 2011 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
It is the deliberate falsification with intent to deceive that is a lie.

In black and white I would agree with you

The devil is in the details. If the Intention to decieve was honorable...

Example .

If my dog pi88ed the neighbor off and he wanted to know where the dog was to kill it, I lied to his whereabouts to save the dogs life.

A lie with positive intent but a lie just the same. Is it an honorable lie?

(I believe that`s the roundabout kind of lie Pid was talking about . )

I can and do justify that type of lie. and suspect thats why they`re called "white lies" And, I wouldn`t hold it against the teller or think of them as a liar.

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see your point.
However using a dog example;
My dog would not be loose, and if he were,
and did something worthy of a death sentence like biting bloody the neighbor's child......
well the police would be at my doorstep asking, not the neighbor.
Hypothetically my neighbor would have no reason to want to kill my dog unless said dog was out and running illegally about, biting, digging, getting into trash, or barking too loud inside (which I would not put up with) or pooping on neighbor's lawn when I took dog for walkies, which I would not let dog do, and if he did I would poop scoop and bag. Same for p!ssing, not in my neighbor's yard.
No I would not lie about the dog's whereabouts.
I mean if not outside, then said neighbor knows it is most likely in my house.

I guess I do my best to avoid situations where most would choose to lie.
And if in one, "none of your business" if true.
Omission can cover a lot of situations.
Or like if Betty asks, "do you like my new hairdo" and I think ewwww it is awful,
I would say for example;
"I feel your other hairdo was more flattering".
Or a tactful, "it will get attention";
and if she kept bugging me,
I'd say, "I am not a hair fashion expert".
On the other hand, if Betty knows me well, she will know I would answer her honestly, and would not be asking unless she wanted naked truth.

I can think of a bad situation like in a war, where one is hiding innocent ones from the enemy.
I hope to never find myself in such a situation.
Or a lynch mob looking for an innocent person, who wants to kill said person because of their race for example.
Even then I would do my best to not lie.
Like if they asked, if I know where the one(s) they are looking for are.
Well, technically I do not know exactly where they are in area where I know they are.
I am not looking at them.....
So would say, no.
However those are extreme examples and the ones asking are the enemy.


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juniperb
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Posts: 3461
From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted September 05, 2011 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn`t say the dog was loose

I do make every attempt to walk the straight and narrow with my Intentions and words.. And I honor it in others. I was simply making a distinction in Intentions

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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LEXX
Knowflake

Posts: 9742
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 05, 2011 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
I didn`t say the dog was loose

I do make every attempt to walk the straight and narrow with my Intentions and words.. And I honor it in others. I was simply making a distinction in Intentions


I know you did not say dog was loose.
Just used dog as example.
And if a neighbor was that psycho....
well,
there are bigger issues afoot.

And I do understand the point you and Pid were making about the difference betwixt honourable motivation and dishonourable.


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