posted August 04, 2008 03:42 AM              

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MUMBAI: They walked in holding hands and left again an hour later with their doctor — a little crestfallen, and even more aware of the clock ticking away.

Haresh and Niketa Mehta, the young couple who dared to walk the legal path and question the abortion law that does not permit a medical termination of pregnancy beyond 20 weeks will have to face another agonising weekend. ( Watch )

On Friday, the Bombay high court, not satisfied with the medical report it had called for from J J Hospital on the condition of Niketa's unborn fetus, directed the hospital's special committee to "give an additional confirmed opinion". The court said, "Looking into the urgency of the matter, the report should be in by Monday morning."

The J J Hospital committee had held that there was indeed a complete heart blockage in the fetus but added that "the findings were not significant to warrant an abortion".

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is it just me ??
am i conservative to think the parents are taking the easy way out. i feel sorry for them but their attitude and statements given by them are ...sick. the mother said she wants a baby but does not want to spend the money that will be needed...

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Jaslok Hospital director of cardiology A B Mehta said.

"Many such babies may require or may not require pacemakers . The baby could have little or no problem if there is no structural or functional abnormality of the heart. Many such babies, whose defects are not known, may or may not require a pacemaker immediately after birth. However, some of them have corrected transposition of the great vessels; that condition is compatible with natural and normal birth,'' he added on Friday after the court said it would wait for a clearer report from J J Hospital doctors before adjudicating.

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heres the mothers statement

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Of course I was excited about my first pregnancy. I still am excited. But I want a healthy baby. I want a normal baby. I don't want to spend for the treatment of the child. We didn't expect this delay. The J J Hospital committee has given a safe report. The issue here is of choice.

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seeing this story in the news and sympathising with the couple many NGO's came forward to help them.

quote:

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Even as a question mark looms large over the status of their foetus, the Mehtas, were approached on Sunday by a local NGO that offered to help raise the child, which is expected to be born with a congenital heart defect.

Niketa, 25 weeks pregnant, meanwhile shunned the NGO offer with a firm "no". Her husband Haresh supported her stand, saying, "We don't want the baby."

He told TOI , "We got a call from an NGO offering to place the baby elsewhere. But how can we? Hum apna dukh doosro ke saath kaise baate? (How can we share our sadness with someone else?) Even if they have the money to look after the baby, the child will always be compared with other normal children."

Besides, with the child on a pacemaker, there may be many complications, he added. "What if the surgery fails? It could get septic. The child will have a tough life. As it is, life in Mumbai is such a struggle and so fast.

The child would be at a disadvantage right from the start. How can the child travel? By train? We have thought it over a lot in the past few weeks. How can a mother and father watch their own child die, whether it is with us or anyone else? That's why we said no to the NGO."

Help has been offered from other quarters too. A private medical aid company wrote to TOI expressing an interest in offering the baby a free pacemaker. A pro-life group in the city, not willing to be identified, said it was willing to confidentially find an alternate home for babies with congenital heart defects.

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posted August 04, 2008 05:06 AM            

The Daily Mail are constantly running stories about women regretting having abortions. It is clear to see how their editor sits on political movements to shorten the legal abortion cut-off date.
A paper wanting to see looser regulations could do the opposite.

posted August 04, 2008 10:42 AM              

i had the worst , most horrible timing any baby can have in human history...
my dad was 24 and mom 21. they had moved from a small town to Mumbai- a metro. he was an accountant who was crunching numbers for an accounting firm for 1000 rupees. thats like 15 dollars. they were living in a shabby studio apartment, and rented at that. they being young had DECIDED to have kids not before 5 years so they would own their own apartment or atleast have enough money to ensure good life for their children.. Fair Enough eh ???

then my dad with a sudden daredevil inspiration decided to start his own firm ....never mind it takes a loooong time to have that kind of client base where u can afford monthly expenses let alone own ur own place. my mom was supportive. and then i decided Bad Timing AINT no SIN...

3 months into living on their savings, my dad struggling to have people entrust their tax returns to him ,mom discovered to her horror I was on my way.she and Dad both agreed they couldnt go along with it... i was an inconvenient bump on the road that was difficult as it is.. right ? no money , no secure future, young enough to delay kids.... can there be more reasons to get an Abortion ?????

my dad however freaked at the prospect of a clinic and whatnot and my mom being the spunk fox she is went all alone to get me ...well whatever inoffensive desensitising word a liberal can come up with for killing a human baby...

only... and thank god a million times from me.. the doctor who was to perform the procedure had slipped in the bathroom and stayed home... being Indian and all my mom freaked out thinking it was an omen or something....then she went ahead and asked for another docotr on the facility who could....do the job.

the doctor was a kind, old lady with enough money so she could do without the few hundred bucks she could have easily made for a 10 minute job.she asked my mom about the background and situation she was in to need an abortion...she heard all that was and told my mom...' walk down the stairs, turn left out of the facility. theres a nice pattisierie. buy u and ur man a cake and rejoice "

posted August 04, 2008 10:43 AM              

so you see I have been in the shoes ... of the baby.i reckon i m well within my rights to say the parents are selfish...first they say they cant afford the medical costs ...of theior own child. when they are offered help they say they dont want to see a sick baby... their own baby deal with his/her illness....someone tell me i m a nut

i know i m being too estoric here. but remember what Linda taked about in Star Signs about parental- child contracts... its rife with karma. i m willing to bet my shirt on it.. these parents get rid of this one.. the next time they will have a baby with issues that are as serious only they wont find out in time so as to take the easy way out. i dont intend to sound cruel but from my study and research of Karma...in every parent-child relationship the circumstances good or bad hold karmic retribution as well evolutionary lessons for both the parties involved. This could well be a lesson for the couple in selfless acceptance... What WOULD they have done if they hadnt found out about the complication until birth ???

throw the baby in the indian ocean.???..

what makes abortio nany different ??? that its a bag of cells growing inside someone ???

i can tell from my regression work hell NO.
a year back to get a Reiki healer course my teacher regressed me to release all childhood issues.. coz a healer can't be a healer if he needs healing right ??

i was regressed into my childhood, early years.. infancy... and then invitro. i actually heard my parents arguing and bickering and bemoaning their state... and how they wished they were in a better situation... and i actually felt anger and fear and rage ....feelings lying dormant within my subconscious for so long. These feelings and memories stopped me from bonding too close to my parents..

and after the regresssion when i asked my Mom... diplomaticaally ofcourse.. she came out with what i have said above...how she nearly killed me.... yeah NOT ABORTED... KILLLED .

posted August 04, 2008 12:08 PM              

If my parents had known about it before birth, would they have had an abortion?
NO WAY.

And they didn`t bring him into an orphanage or to foster parents as many people do, because they don`t want an "abnormal" baby.

But it took them a lot of strength. Actually my mom has been called stupid by the doctor who delivered my brother, because she wanted to keep the baby! (this was the 70-ies).

But having said that, I say it was the right decision for my parents, because they were strong enough and they had the background to provide care for my brother, the love and the responsibility.

But I could never never make that decision for someone else. I don`t vote for abortion, in no way, but I understand that sometimes parents are just not ABLE to care for a baby with love, patience and money (it IS an important factor).

I think everyone has to make the decision for themselves. BUT I am actually horrified w hen I see how LITTLE people think aobut what it means to have a baby BEFORE having them.
I mean, in my opinion you should be doing some serious soulsearching before you decide to have a baby, and not be so glib about it, as many people unfortunately are. This is what makes me angry and I believe this what fills the magazines with news of children who had been starved to death, because their parents just didn`T care enough to give them something to eat.
It`s not the majority of people, of course not, but they do exist. And I believe those people should never had children in the first place.

posted August 04, 2008 02:30 PM            

I can see both sides, having been through both sides.

In December 2003 whilst married to my now ex husband whom l shall call Devil.. l got pregnant. We already had 2 kids and to be honest l was looking for a way out of my marriage. He is Indian... if l had gone ahead and had my baby l would have been forced to stay with him and l probably would have taken my own life, somewhere down the road. So, l had an abortion... took some pills at 6 weeks pregnant and waited for it, knowing l had made the right decision. I promised myself there and then that l would never have an abortion again.

I left my husband.
We started divorce proceedings.

In May 2005, l got pregnant (i am EXTREMELY) fertile with my boyfriend even though we were using condoms... now, this was a tricky situation as my boyfriend was an old friend l was having a fling with AND l didn't want to make our fling long-term. SO, I told him about it and said that, seeing as l already have 2 kids l was happy to go through the pregnancy alone, have the baby and bring him/her up as best l could with full access to him of his child. The one condition is that he would have to set money aside to finance his child as l could not.

He agreed.

I now have a beautiful little boy whom l absolutely love beyond love! He is so intelligent, loving, kind, compassionate and is totally devoted to me, his mother. He is like an angel actually and l feel that l have been blessed for making the difficult decision, taking the hard line and succeeding in having a baby all on my own. I feel very blessed.

NOW, l was brought up with handicapped kids because my father started a huge charity in the UK that helped handicappy kids, so they were my friends as l grew up. I loved them all, was not embarrassed nor shocked by their behaviour and differences, although l did often see frustration in their eyes and a sadness in their souls. They only knew their lives and their lives were so loving. They were completely loved by their families.

I do not have any opinion on who is right nor wrong. Personally, l am of the view that once you conceive a child and that seed is growing within you, then you are simply a host. You no longer have any right over the child's life or death.

You chose the child's life by getting pregnant! So l am inclined to stand on the side of VenusdeIndia, yet having been in an abusive relationship and decided to abort for my own sanity l also stand up and say, "yes l was selfish" so shoot me down.

I am 10 times the woman l was in December 2003, and l would never judge another for having to be in my shoes because l have been in their shoes and chosen both options.

I dedicate my post to all the aborted souls who are probably living on this earth in different bodies, and to all the unwanted, unloved children who perhaps should have been aborted.

posted August 05, 2008 02:41 AM              

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A division bench of Justices R M S Khandeparkar and Amjad Sayed held that the couple and a gynaecologist Dr Nikhil Datar, who had petitioned the court against the prevailing law, failed to make out a case to show that the child once born faced a substantial risk of severe physical or mental disability.

The bench said that the couple and doctors could not establish grounds fit enough for the court to step in and make an exception for them by exercising its extraordinary jusrisdiction. The HC relied on the J J Hospital committee’s additional report submitted on Monday which totally contradicted its earlier finding.

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hilarious as it is here is the doctors responsible for the circus...

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n the end, it was just one word that changed the medical report submitted to the high court by J J Hospital.

On Saturday, the JJ report's conclusion read, "The committee is of the opinion that there are very fair chances that child will be born incapacitated and handicapped to survive."

On Monday morning, the JJ report submitted a report which was identical except that it said, "The committee is of the opinion that there are very least chances that child will be born incapacitated and handicapped to survive."

The change in state-run JJ Hospital's report over abortion of Niketa Mehta's unborn child may have turned the tide against the aggrieved mother.

"It was a typo," said Dr B M Subnis, dean of the JJ groups of Hospitals who had to sign the report submitted by three of his experts. The three-doctor committee was formed at the behest of the High Court's directive last week to assess the merit of Niketa Mehta's plea seeking termination of her pregnancy.

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the Judge has practically takes words from my mouth

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The court observed: "The J J report is clear that the child is not deformed. Once there is life, can you ask for it to be killed now? Is it any different from mercy killing?"

Havnur said the law required an amendment and the lacuna needed to be filled. "What about the issue of quality of life after birth? This is a law dating back to 1971..." he trailed off. Justice Khandeparkar said, "It is not our job to amend the laws, it is for legislators to do so. How can the court legislate? It is beyond our powers. It is very difficult for us to give the direction you are asking. You should approach the legislators."

Besides, Justice Sayed asked, "If an abnormality is detected in the ninth month, will you ask for an abortion?" Justice Khandeparkar said section 5 of MTP Act undoubtedly permits abortion when it is necessary to save the woman’s life. "It nowhere says pregnancy can be terminated if an abnormality exists in the child..."

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posted August 05, 2008 01:32 PM            

It was 8:49 on a beautiful 9th day of July
There was not a cloud to speak of
So the orange sun hung lonely in the sky
I lay prone in my campy home
Listening to fine Nappy Jackie and His Jazzcat's horn
Sliding in a tape of "Bird" on Verve
When suddenly rang my phone.

"Hey Butterfly." the voice said.
"Slip on some duds, comb out your 'fro
And slide on down to my pad
The vibe here is very pleasant
And I truly request your presence
A problem of great magnitude has arose
And as we speak it grows."

Damn, what could it be I thought?
A juice I bought
And rolled on down to her pad
Seeing bros I know slapping fives I arrived And pressed G-5
And there was Nikki
Looking some kind of sad
With tears fallin from her eyes

She sat me down
And dug my frown
And began to run it down

"You remember my boyfriend Sid that fly kid who I love
Well our love is often a verb
And spontaneity has brought a third
But do to our youth an economic state
We wish to terminate
About this we don't feel great
But baby that's how it is
But the feds have dissed me
They ignored and dismissed me
The pro-lifers harrassed me outside the clinic
And called me a murderer
Now that's hate
So needless to say we're in a mental state of debate."

"Hey beautiful bird," I said
Digging her somber mood
"The fascists are some heavy dudes
They don't really give a damn about life
They just don't want a woman to control her body
Or have the right to choose
But baby that ain't nothin
They just want a male finger on the button
Because if you say war
They will send them to die by the score
Aborting mission should be YOUR VOLITION
But if Souter and Thomas have their way
You'll be standing in line unable to get welfare
While they'll be off hunting and fishing

It has ALWAYS been around
It will ALWAYS have a niche
But they'll make it a PRIVELEGE not a right
ACCESSIBLE ONLY TO THE RICH!!

posted August 05, 2008 08:27 PM            

My mother could have aborted me when she was 17 years old. She didn't want to because I wasn't completely unexpected but she was young and so was dad.

That doesn't bother me. I'd only have been born later or to someone else.

I've had an abortion for elective reasons.

I've had an abortion for life-threatening reasons.

I've also had a healthy living child who is now 9 years old.

posted August 05, 2008 10:20 PM              

I have not had an abortion ever - I have 3 kids. Had my first one at 17. The last baby I had - now 7 years old, is autistic.

When I was 3 months along, the doctor told me that there is a slight chance that he might not be normal. This was after some tests were taken. I refused to take any more tests. I told the doctor that I would rather not know if my baby is going to have problems because I am having him no matter what. He was born autistic. I have absolutely no regrets. BUT that was my CHOICE.

I would have been very upset at anyone who tells me that this is the only choice. Afterall, I am the one who will be raising my child. Not anyone else.

Sure it's irresponsible of the parents to want to abort because they made a mistake. But isn't it a bigger mistake to keep the child and bring it to this world when the parents cannot afford to have him? What do you think will happen to him when the parents give him up? I think it's a bigger mistake to let parents keep having kids when they can't raise them properly.

posted August 06, 2008 01:45 AM              

the real issue in this case - and it has caused quite a circus in our country is - who decides that a disabled or sick life is LESS than a healthy or supposedly normal one.

is this not saying - Let us Exterminate all who are diosabled - they are a burden on society - a sinking fund invsetment.
after all we know what is right - a kid whi is able to compete in this world.
whereas a disbility or poor health - makes him an expendable lump of cells.

thats what the ruling Judge said and what i was hoping someone would catch on - Is Disability in a child reason for execution - should we just rid our world of all handicapped/disabled so we who know best can make it a better place ?

posted August 06, 2008 12:40 PM            

No, not at all. The fetus is not a "child" yet in biological terms, especially if it can't survive outside of the mother's body.

"its good there are Laws that dont give us all the rights we would love."

What really needs to happen is government needs to take it's periscope out of this woman's uterus and her private life. The right to privacy is a human right, now the whole country is judging her on her decision of whether to continue her pregnancy or not. Where will the government be when she has to watch her young baby suffer from this condition, is the government opening it's wallet to pay for the care that will be needed?

If you worked in a hospital and saw how many times and swiftly life and death decisions were made for someone's comfort or for the financial ease of families who's adult relatives were in comas or brain damaged or paralyzed, you'd quickly change your mind about this woman's choice. When it's an adults quality of life at stake they call it "Quality of Life Counseling" with the family and you would see how quickly families decide to end the life of a son, daughter, parent or relative because the burden would be too much. Should a person who may be in a coma for the rest of they're life be kept alive? Should a severely brain damaged person be kept alive at the expense of the families quality of life?

It's very easy to say that you would continue to care for this loved one, we would all like to believe that we would do it. It's very idealistic and makes you feel heroic and self-righteous, but the cold hard reality is that it's more difficult than you can even imagine.

These are questions that are just as important as this woman's choice.

And since this is such huge news in your country right now, what other important world issues is it diverting the people's attention from right now. They have really put the burden of the world on this woman's shoulder's and judging her for making a decision that is individually right for her.

Also, make sure you understand how the press could be spinning it, no one knows the exact situation and the law needs to present her story in a specific manner in order to present it at court. There is so much more that is not being revealed, yet she's being held up to be judged.

The government needs to keep it's periscope out of her Uterus. It doesn't belong there.

posted August 06, 2008 01:03 PM            

I think 6 (and not 5) months is a fair limit.

Has any child been born before 7 months?

I wonder when the soul enters the body...

Is it at the instant of birth...

Or does the soul come in gradually...

Does she begin at the moment of conception?

Is she finished by the first respiration?

Or is the soul still entering by the age of 6 months, or 5 years?

Perhaps the soul is never completely in the body...

Perhaps the body dies when it can hold no more soul...

Or when the soul grows too big for the body...

When the soul overgrows her host...

And stretches out for another.

posted August 06, 2008 02:16 PM            

We are all here to learn and I suppose this issue is a huge learning experience for all of us. I've heard many channelers speak about when the soul enters the body and none of them have been consistant except for the premise that the soul can never be destroyed.

posted August 06, 2008 02:49 PM              

I suppose it's easy enough to declare this woman selfish. Maybe she is. Or maybe she's afraid. Woman don't generally dream about raising handicappd or severely ill children. We dream about perfectly behaved, pink cheeked cherubs. When reality sets in, either in the form of something as common as colic or as serious as an unheathy heart, our old attachment to the ideal can cause pain, depression, and disillusionment. Maybe this woman sincerely feels she can't cope. As rude as I think it is to extend an invitation and then slam the door in the guest's face when they arrive, I can't help but think forcing women to bear unwanted children can come to no long term good for any of us.

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Thank you for continuing to focus on the spiritual element which I think is what it really comes down to on a forum of this type. Energy can never be destroyed, that's scientific as well as esoteric, and if that is what the soul is made of, then you can not destroy a soul.

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Exactly. But, as you mentioned, none of us are in the position to know when the spirit, mind or soul take possession of the body. Possibly that's a good part of the reason abortion is such an important and controversial subject nowadays. Are we being forced to consider the spiritual angle, not just the material?

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I am of the opinion that if a soul is meant to incarnate on this plane, there is nothing on earth a human being can do to stop it. That child will get here.

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Me too. I would hazard a guess that what we might term a "selfish" abortion does considerably more damage to the expectant mother then to the unborn spirit.