posted June 04, 2012 05:46 AM            

I think you can only use words like non committal if they really like someone and run away from it. Everyone is different and we don't all want to be stuck in long term relationships.

Maybe they're highly idealistic and don't want to accept anything less than what they've envisioned? It's a lot easier to break off with someone who isn't the marrying kind.

posted June 05, 2012 11:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I have noticed that when the man has acted uninterested the woman is crazy about him, but when the man actually reciprocates the woman runs for the hills, and they say only men are commitment phobes. -_-

---

This is actually true. Men and women who have commitment issues themselves, will seek out others who have similar issues. It's simply like energy attracting like. So if you (generic "you" here) are attracting a certain type of people in your life, it's important to look at yourself to see what in "you" is attracting that type of energy.

However, you have to take into consideration the age of the persons involved. The fact is that the human brain doesn't fully develop till age 25. And nowadays, emotionally and psychologically, the recommended marriage age is 30 and above. In America the age of marriage has been going up steadily.

This is because the more you understand yourself mentally, emotionally, and psychologically, the better choices you will make in selecting a life partner. And this does not commonly happen in the early 20s.

So the behavior shown by women as mentioned by you, is not necessarily indicative of lifelong commitment issues, but more just an indication of these women not yet knowing and understanding what they want. People in their early 20s are generally very easily influenced by fads and think that what everyone else wants is probably the best. So time and maturity is what's needed.

posted June 06, 2012 02:13 AM            

You are referring again to women in their early 20s. Can you hold it against them that they want to explore different relationships, just as men have done for eons, before deciding to settle down.

Have you noticed how a toddler constantly gets in situations where he/she could potentially be harmed, yet does not stop doing it, no matter how much the mother yells "stop." It is because the child is learning about his environment through his own exploration.

In the same way these women are learning about relationships by trying out different ones. Granted sometimes their decisions are not the best ones, but again some learn through their own mistakes.

How do you know that these same women, once they've matured (hopefully by 30) won't settle down to marry and have kids?

The point I'm trying to make is that despite your "experiments" you cannot make hard and fast conclusions about women in their early 20s being commitment phobic. The fact that they are going after guys who are themselves commitment phobic, tells you nothing beyond the simple message that these women are not yet ready to settle down. You cannot conclusively draw the psychological "result" you've mentioned about women in their early 20s, simply because their brains are still not fully developed, i.e., they are still mentally and emotionally immature.

Now if you were speaking about the same observations about older women, like those in their 30s, yeah I'd agree with you that the older ones definitely have commitment issues.

Hope you get what I'm trying to say. I know you're serious about finding the right person to settle down with and perhaps your 1H Saturn gives you the forbearance and wisdom that's needed to do so, but the majority of men and women in their early 20s do not have the same maturity and readiness.

But Saturn is also going to give you the necessary patience to wait for the right woman. And she'll come along when the Universe (not you) thinks the time is right. you'll see

posted June 06, 2012 05:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Also I have done a few dating experiments that prove this theory true, one in particular blew my mind,she was born the same day as me, so we had a lot in common, and I was really interested in her romantically but she put me in the friendzone. So I changed it up a bit and started telling her lies that I was going to clubs and meeting and sleeping with women, well all of a sudden this girl is going from feeling nothing for me to telling me she is in love with me, so she wants a commited relationship with a man who is an admitted manwhore? This is exactly what I am talking about. She didn't want anything to do with me when I was into the idea of a relationship with her but suddenly I start pretending I'm banging other women and she's in love with me,I was pretending to be the kind of Guy who would never commit and as I said she fell for that Guy, so this and several other experiments I have done with the same methods have yielded the same results.

---

To be very honest, I've never liked the concept of the "friend zone".

I mean, honestly, sometimes women just don't want a romantic or sexual relationship, and she's not obligated to be in one if she does not want to do that.

Why can't a guy and a girl just be friends? What's wrong with a girl wanting to have male friends (or a guy wanting to have female friends)? I guess I don't understand why so many guys seem to have an issue with that and take being a 'friend' as some kind of slight/as offensive. Friendships often last longer than romances do anyway, so I personally would value a friendship a lot more.

posted June 06, 2012 09:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I don't see a problem with friendship either as long as both people only want friendship.the term friendzone is used by guys who have tried forging a romantic relationship and been rejected, but its as if the girl gets amnesia and says hey! Lets be good buddies , and than acts as if the Guy having attraction and/or feelings is supposed to miraculously dissappear.also my attitude might be different if the girl truly wanted to be my friend,my experience has been that these girls who say lets only be friends is that they don't truly care about me, they only see a surrogate boyfriend who will be there for them when they are having a bad day, but they were scarce otherwise.

---

^^ So the guy is rejected and offered friendship by the girl... what other solutions by the girl do you think is most acceptable to you in that sorta scenerior? Personally, I feel the girl has done the best acceptable behavior... cos the next solution I can think a girl can do is to avoid that guy like plague... which in my opinion is a No-No.

My personal view: Girls, Guys are entitled to choose - they dun commit cos they do not see a future and they dun want to hurt the other party.

posted June 06, 2012 03:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilithpluto:
^^ So the guy is rejected and offered friendship by the girl... what other solutions by the girl do you think is most acceptable to you in that sorta scenerior? Personally, I feel the girl has done the best acceptable behavior... cos the next solution I can think a girl can do is to avoid that guy like plague... which in my opinion is a No-No.

My personal view: Girls, Guys are entitled to choose - they dun commit cos they do not see a future and they dun want to hurt the other party.

Life isn't perfect and definately not fair.. we trip fall bruise and meet the wrong people along the way - let's focus on the girls who commit to you.

---

posted June 06, 2012 05:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I agree everyone has the right to choose ,lol and that also means that the guy has the right to decline being "just friends" without being called a jerk

---

Well, though, it is kind of jerk-ish to stop being someone's friend just because they just aren't into you that way, but they still value you as a person and genuinely want to be friends. It's like saying that their friendship isn't good enough, and that you don't even want them around at all unless you can have them around in the way that you want to have them around.

I can understand not being friends with someone if they are really nasty about being disinterested or if they no longer feel comfortable around you. I mean, yeah, that happens. However, sometimes people just don't have "those" feelings, even if they really like you as a person. Feelings can't be forced; they either develop and happen or they don't. I don't really feel like it's fair in that case to hold it against someone--such as by withholding friendship--if they just don't get those kinds of feelings. It's not like it's their fault, and losing a friend really hurts a lot.

posted June 06, 2012 05:17 PM            

Of course as we get older we learn there’s much more to life than appearances or status, or at least this is what should happen… I agree with Hera and think it ultimately just comes down to emotional maturity and self esteem. Girls with low self-esteem will go after guys who treat them badly, to re affirm how they already feel about themselves, same goes for guys… From my experience living in Hawaii surrounded by military bases, I’ve met a lot of “good hearted” guys who claim to only want a good girl and stable relationship, but seem to always be pursuing women who aren’t interested back or treat them like s***. Then the resentment comes pouring out later on, because women are liars and w*****…

posted June 06, 2012 06:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
Well, though, it is kind of jerk-ish to stop being someone's friend just because they just aren't into you that way, but they still value you as a person and genuinely want to be friends. It's like saying that their friendship isn't good enough, and that you don't even want them around at all unless you can have them around in the way that you want to have them around.

I can understand not being friends with someone if they are really nasty about being disinterested or if they no longer feel comfortable around you. I mean, yeah, that happens. However, sometimes people just don't have "those" feelings, even if they really like you as a person. Feelings can't be forced; they either develop and happen or they don't. I don't really feel like it's fair in that case to hold it against someone--such as by withholding friendship--if they just don't get those kinds of feelings. It's not like it's their fault, and losing a friend really hurts a lot.

---

posted June 06, 2012 07:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
But most of the time if a woman knows your attracted and she is not it ruins having any kind of closeness, they act weird towards the guy and puts lots of distance there,even though they are the ones who said "but you are like a brother to me,i could never see you that way." or i dont want to risk it, it could ruin things. XD so they say they want to only be friends but dont act like friends, unless they have some kind of crisis,usually guy related,they want advice etc. ^this has been my experience.

---

she might not want closeness and might create distance because she doesn't want to unfairly lead someone on; she also might really sincerely believe that she values the friendship a lot and doesn't want to risk losing it in case the romance goes sour

posted June 06, 2012 10:12 PM            

quote:

---

when the man has acted uninterested the woman is crazy about him, but when the man actually reciprocates the woman runs for the hill

---

This always goes both ways. Anyone who has low self esteem will have a gut reaction of "OMG OH NO.. Someone doesn't like me.. I have to do everything to prove myself to be likeable".
It is a psychological thing.

It is possible though that American media leads women to have lower self esteem in a sexual/romantic setting... It seems that way in *certain* movies & tv series. They are very influenced to be kind of *dumb* when it comes to getting a man. They are a bit too high on aggression and too lost on seduction & sensuality.

Women on average have a much stronger presence in European countries (specially central EU) and seem to have stronger self-esteem overall.

quote:

---

From the time we’re old enough to learn about sex we’re taught that it’s not appropriate for women to be sexually aggressive

---

posted June 07, 2012 03:01 AM            

BUT - if we are just talking about women chasing after men who are disinterested...... This seems to be a HUGE trend in the US. If it is not a trend - then why was "He's not that into you" - both the book & movie.. so popular?
Whenever I have seen an American tv series regarding dating or a movie that was dating-related.. in the past few years --- they ALWAYS latch on to this topic of the girl who chases the disinterested a-hole.

posted June 07, 2012 04:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
I see what you mean ^ when you put it that way..

BUT - if we are just talking about women chasing after men who are disinterested...... This seems to be a HUGE trend in the US. If it is not a trend - then why was "He's not that into you" - both the book & movie.. so popular?
Whenever I have seen an American tv series regarding dating or a movie that was dating-related.. in the past few years --- they ALWAYS latch on to this topic of the girl who chases the disinterested a-hole.

I mean I agree that it is BS... but unfortunately the media is really good at brainwashing people.. and many young women are under the impression that this is just *normal* behaviour.

---

Not my experience. For example I'm watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer and The L Word right now and as a general rule women aren't flocking after the disinterested a-hole (Willow did pine after Xander, but then there was Oz and Tara and Kennedy and they were most definitely interested in her and not a jerk).

And then there are movies like Stardust, Enchanted, White Oleander, Mean Girls, and The Notebook which also don't follow that trope (and I'm not including so many movies I can think of where the guy is nice & interested from the start that isn't a "chick flick" but if I did then I'd list A LOT more). If it wasn't after 1 AM and my not having had much sleep that past couple of days I'm sure I could think of more.

Now a common trope in romance is a guy who doesn't care for a woman and he's often in an adversarial position (a landlord, a rake, even a pirate who kidnaps her) but it becomes clear he's obsessed with her and it could be just the fantasy of a man who has very high standards who is forced into a woman's company and then comes to fall under her power (as much as he resists) as he gets to know her, both for her beauty and for just being who she is, and thus soul mates. In some cases it gets extremely unrealistic when say a pirate gives up the outlaw life to settle with her and raise a respectable family in a rich mansion (as just an example) though porn for men is full of unrealistic scenerios as well and men & women both would do well to remember the difference between reality & fantasy or they're at extreme risk for disappointment, disillusionment, and a world of hurt.

As for He's Just Not That Into You, I'd say it was popular because of its all-star cast, and even so it didn't get many good reviews (that is when it first opened people flocked to see the actors rather than the story, and I'm sure some went to see it just because everyone else seemed to have seen it). I actually haven't seen it myself.

But Twilight, OTOH, would be a perfect example of girls (and women) wanting an asinine metrosexual (though it turns out he's only a jerk because he loves her so much) with a monster **** (well, having sex with her could kill her anyway...), though he comes off as asexual (before Bella) rather than "playing the field." But at least in the case of the kids I'd say they're used to being treated in such demeaning and controlling ways and being treated badly by those they love and thus don't recognize just how disturbing Edward's behavior was (maybe it was those tight abs...)

posted June 07, 2012 06:22 AM            

When a movie or series is in that genre ^ -- THEN -- the way dating is portrayed and the problems involved... are usually from the perspective of the poor woman who wants to get married and all the troubles she has on the way there.. and how she keeps getting rejected and trying and chasing after the jerks who do not call her back bla bla... the poor little thing...
It's very classic American-style... to make a tv series or movie - along these lines with the "poor" little Jane who can't find a guy who wants to commit.

I feel like it's a vicious circle.. because the media creates this problem and exacerbates it by emphasising it.