posted July 07, 2012 04:27 AM            

If you let someone abuse you or do horrible things, and just keep taking it, I would not call that healthy unconditional love.

Healthy unconditional love would be like if you had some issues, but worked actively on getting better, and people were emotionally supportive and encouraging.

posted July 07, 2012 06:19 AM            

some people might love you always but still be angry when you do bad things...

posted July 07, 2012 01:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

Oxytocin bonds are present in both mother-child relationships, and long-term relationships between lovers. It makes it debilitating to sever the bond - in fact, you could do so, and still grapple with feelings of intense love and attachment for the person. It's involuntary.

---

That would be more involuntary love then unconditional I would think. Guess it depends on how technical we get with the description of unconditional. I think there are categories of unconditional love. Community/humanitarian, self, and personal 'others'/relationships.

I think unconditional love for the community is easiest since we don't generally form deep attachments/bonds with humanitarian work. Atleast not where we start to place conditions on our giving and ego gratification. Some do of course but its easier to just love your fellow human when the self is not tied up in it.

As for unconditional love in a relationship, like others said, depends on the definition. Just accepting someone for all their flaws is honorable but not necessarily unconditional love. My personal definition would be if you could walk away or just being friends with someone because it is in the best interest of the other persons happiness, even if it would tear you to pieces. You don't have to like it, but you do it because that is what will bring them the most fulfillment or positive life outcome from their perspective. And you do it without hate or resentment.

posted July 07, 2012 02:35 PM            

Maybe it's a cancer thing.

------------------
Imagination is intelligence having fun.
—George Scialabba

posted July 07, 2012 07:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
I dunno... It's always been easy for me to give unconditional love...

Maybe it's a cancer thing.

---

Or a Pisces thing..

posted July 08, 2012 12:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Personally I don't think it exists because you cannot take out the dependency factor out of the equation. If a puppy did not depend on you (or think he might) for food and shelter, would he/she still love you?

---

I don't know about puppies, but once a dog accepts you as part of its pack and as its master then the love is often unconditional. Kick them aside everyday and they'll still lick your boots that kick them and help defend you from any they consider a threat to you.

Perhaps that's why I like cats so much better. You have to earn and maintain their love so it actually means something. Abuse a cat like you abuse a dog and there's a good chance that cat will leave your life, or at least do everything to avoid you. (Still, they seem able to tell when harm is accidental or aberrational and forgive.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Babies don't love you unconditionally, they simply have no choice because they are utterly dependent on you

---

That seems irrelevant to me. So they're dependent. So what?

I mean it's true that if you didn't keep them alive they wouldn't love you but that's because they'd be DEAD, not because they said, "Screw you, I'm crawling away from home."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Same with self-sacrificing love.. it seems like self-gratifying martyrdom. Heh.. my mom used to do that so she'd have that card to play in an argument and make me feel guilty so I'd obey her.

---

I'm glad you gave an example because I was thinking of those who give their lives for another. Heck, people have given their lives for complete strangers (even animals) in trying to rescue them, for whatever that's worth. If they feel good about themselves for having done so afterward, does that somehow invalidate their risk or sacrifice for you?

But yeah, I've learned to be wary of people who did me favors for the "hidden price tag" that sometimes came with it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
I think parent-child love is def NOT unconditional. They might not take their love back but they do threaten to and sometimes that's enough

---

That's true of plenty parent-child relationships, but not all of them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Like there is a subconscious selfish reason behind it.. most of the time to be appreciated for being capable of such a lofty feeling. Coz at the end of the day, we love people for how they make us feel - about OURSELVES lol

---

Are you saying that it's not "love" unless the person who loves suffers for it or at least gains nothing from it? If so, how did you ever come up with such a definition for love?

If your idea of unconditional love is to love someone even if that person does nothing for you (or worse, take advantage of and/or abuse you) then I hope it doesn't exist.

posted July 08, 2012 12:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Take any guy and marry him. And he becomes fat and ugly. He doesn't shave and never showers. He becomes a druggie. He robs banks. He beats up old ladies. He cheats like a philandering fool. He has no manners. He is loud and obnoxious.

If you still manage to love him, then we have unconditional love.

---

posted July 08, 2012 01:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Or a Pisces thing..

I thought I did it too.. but it stroke me it was just self-gratifying. I have a saviour complex. Giving love makes me feel good about myself, loftier, better, more noble. When it's really very selfish. It's not the real deal.

---

I think you're confused... and being way too hard on yourself. Everyone has the capacity to give true love.

------------------
Imagination is intelligence having fun.
—George Scialabba

posted July 08, 2012 02:06 PM            

I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to say I appreciate you giving your opinions on this. I still think it is an utopic concept, though, and that there are diff reasons behind it, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong sometime in the future, by experience! hehe

posted July 08, 2012 03:35 PM            

I don't mean to say there is no true love, is just that love doesn't seem to be unconditional, ever. There is a catch, always.. Dependency is a catch, so pets and children are out of the picture. I'm not sure if I would have loved my parents if I had a choice in the matter. But I sort of felt obligated to love them, because I totally depended on them and what kind of person doesn't love their family. Even when it seems most disinterested, it's for self flagellation/gratification. And though very few, if any, will admit it, they do expect in return to be looked up to as such noble idealists and self-sacrificing saints. Humanitarians don't give unconditionally, they might give materially but they expect psychologically in return. And possibly a place in Heaven. I used to do volunteer work. I guess you could say I still do because sometimes I don't get paid for my work at the hospital, yes, with the sick sad people. It's not unconditional. I get such a kick from proving to myself that I am a good person that I don't even need money for it. That feeling will do. It's not unconditional. At all. I get my self-validation out of it.

Ahhh and there is also one more thing. I think at the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me all that much who the person I love is, but rather to have such a person in order to project my affection onto them, because yeah, giving love makes me feel good about myself. Which is really very selfish if you think about it. Because loving someone is not about them, it's about me/you. You don't even need a real person to love, imaginary or unavailable person will suffice. Fanclubs world wide understand this. Dating sites too.

posted July 08, 2012 04:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Take any guy and marry him. And he becomes fat and ugly. He doesn't shave and never showers. He becomes a druggie. He robs banks. He beats up old ladies. He cheats like a philandering fool. He has no manners. He is loud and obnoxious.

If you still manage to love him, then we have unconditional love.

---

posted July 08, 2012 05:30 PM            

I don't totally understand what people mean by unconditional love. Something may not be good for you, and you may choose to be away from them, but you still love them. The simple answer is, that if you stop loving someone, then you never really loved them in the first place.

quote:

---

Ahhh and there is also one more thing. I think at the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me all that much who the person I love is, but rather to have such a person in order to project my affection onto them, because yeah, giving love makes me feel good about myself. Which is really very selfish if you think about it. Because loving someone is not about them, it's about me/you. You don't even need a real person to love, imaginary or unavailable person will suffice. Fanclubs world wide understand this. Dating sites too.

---

You can't love just anyone. In my opinion, you would need to have at least composite sun conjunct venus with them. The full love stellium is ideal, but sun conjunct venus might suffice if there are other nice aspects. Because Venus is the planet of love and the sun is the identity of the relationship. sun conjunct venus indicates that the identity of the relationship is comepetely defined by love. And since venus is the planet OF love, this means it knows what true love is, it is REAL love. Jupiter isn't pluto isn't neptune isn't. THOSE aren't the planets of love, for a reason.

You don't have the capacity or rather the astrological capacity to love just anyone. You have to have certain aspects. I am not the authority on what aspects indicate true love and which don't. You will have to figure that out for yourself. But, I can tell you that composite sun conjunct venus is often an indication of unconditional love, even if from a distance. Other runners up are moon in negative aspect to venus in either composite or synastry combined with a venus-pluto aspect in the composite. And also sun conjunct jupiter. I admit, those are very similar to love, but in the end, you find, it wasn't real love. Why? You are not as forgiving with them as you might be with someone you have sun conjunct venus. Trust me, I've done a lot of readings. This is what I've seen.

Either way, the reason why you feel obligated to love your parents, for example, is because you DON'T truly love them. I have the love stellium with my grandma and I can't help but love her. The rest of my family I feel very different about. Whenever me and my grandma are apart for too long and we see each other the hugs and kisses are bountiful . But if i dont see my mom, dad, or sister, for a while, meh who cares? Ha. A simple hey how ya doin, haven't seen you in forever might suffice. I love my grandma no matter how angry she makes me, no matter how much nonsense she talks, no matter what she does. Because she is a reflection of me. Her smile looks like mine, as does her body movements, and there's an understanding with her we both have acknowledged we dont have with many others. there's always the need to keep the harmony between us. We just GET where the other is coming from, and we're always on the other's side when my whole family is against her or me. It just works. She's like me in so many ways, and that's what it really comes down to. Since we are so similar, we connect. And loving her is like loving myself. Is that selfish?

------------------
Imagination is intelligence having fun.
—George Scialabba

posted July 09, 2012 12:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
I love your humor, YTA, and your logic!

---