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Author
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Topic: Advice Needed re: Young Children and "Atypically Gendered" People
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mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 1299
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted March 11, 2013 10:01 AM
  
I'll start this question with a story:Shortly after my second child was born, my Mom took me, her, and my eldest out to lunch.
Our server was someone who seemed to be in the midst of a male-to-female transition, but also obviously seemed to wish to "pass" as a woman. My eldest, at the time had just turned 3-years-old, and decided to yell while our server was taking our drinks, "IS SHE A HE-SHE? IS SHE A HE-SHE?!?"
To my knowledge, she had never heard "he-she" before - she simply constructed it out of what she knew at that time regarding gender. Our server seemed mortified, but I didn't know what to say. In my defense, I had a 3-day-old baby and was exhausted, but still... What should I have done and said? Should I have simply said, "No, our waitress is a woman," and have left it at that?
Should I have said, "She's our waitress/a person, and that's all you should worry about,"? (This is actually, now that I'm not terribly sleep deprived, the answer that I lean towards.) I have since explained things to her (in private), but she's older and can more thoroughly understand, but I'm not sure what I should have done when asked so public a question in front of the person it concerns by a child who's old enough only to understand gender enough to ask (yell) about it.
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peregrine
Knowflake Posts: 2184
From: sand castle
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted March 11, 2013 10:25 AM
Girl. They will be flattered. Then explain in private.IP: Logged |
somethingexcellent
Knowflake Posts: 613
From: a red, dead scorpion
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted March 11, 2013 06:01 PM
Yes, I agree with peregrine. I would have told her that the server was the sex that the server wanted to be. Theeeeeen explain in private.IP: Logged |
Kerosene
Knowflake Posts: 1393
From: Mercury
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted March 11, 2013 06:28 PM
^
Yeah, that would of been a good way to apologize to the server too by telling her the desired sex.If she's too curious and opinionated than maybe not take her out as much to avoid these situations.
My baby cousin did something similar with an overweight person. "Why is she sooo wround."
We were all mortified...
Try explaining that one lol
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Lexxigramer
Moderator Posts: 1841
From: The Etheric Realms...Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat...& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted March 11, 2013 07:38 PM
Well first off;
was the waitress/waiter dressed in feminine attire or androgynous attire?
Was the hair gender non specific?
Did they have a name tag with a definite female name?
Were you ABSOLUTELY SURE the person was female?
Or even transitioning from male to female?
I have often been mistook for being an mtf
because of my facial hair.
And children have asked odd questions.
I simply say;
yes, I am a bearded lady.
Little children, providing the parent(s) do not freak;
reply in cute ways;
like;
its pretty
or
can I touch it?
Or they just smile sweetly.
As for the waitress/waiter
If it were a very feminine man then telling the child he was a girl would be a mistake.
On the other hand,
I do not see why the person acted mortified;
I mean come on;
I know I look strange to lots of people;
so they should realize they do not look convincingly female or male.
Sadly many of those folks are in deep denial that prevents them from realizing that their attempts at being/looking like the opposite gender;
is not working very well.
Either accept that or stop trying or make sure you can go all the way and pass.Oh yeah;
kids
(little ones, not usually over 7 or so)
noticing fat people;
happened a lot when I was over 400 pounds.
Adults are far meaner.
Oddly usually it is nasty women, not men.
Yeah, the meanest in my experiences have been teens of both genders, and skinny women.
I really respect the teens and skinny women who do not act like they are going to puke at the sight of me, or make fun of me in public.
And those who accept me as I am;
that is very nice. IP: Logged |
somethingexcellent
Knowflake Posts: 613
From: a red, dead scorpion
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted March 11, 2013 10:18 PM
^I've experienced that too. Little kids and stuff asking if I'm a boy or a girl, calling me a he-she hahahhaa.I usually just smile, talk to them, turn it around.
"What do you think...? Would you be surprised if I said boy...?"
Engage with them and get them thinking.  Even become 'friends' if they're like, say, a neighbour! Or they say that boys shouldn't have long hair. And I ask them why, stuff like that. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1821
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 11, 2013 11:22 PM
Being fit can get some harsh looks & treatment, too. Harassment by guys that turns mean when he feels rejected as well as well as female hostility (even violence back when I was a kid) who see you as competition and sometimes even just for existing. But anyway, I LOVE turning the "Why?" game back on kids. And unlike many adults they'll actually start to wonder themselves more often than not, which I figure is a good habit to inspire. And as for the question that started this thread, as a general rule it's best to refer to those transitioning as the gender they're transitioning to, though of course there are some murky waters and some aren't actually transitioning so it can get awkward pretty easy, but anyone who works with little kids had best get used to things they say and ask getting awkward at least once in awhile.
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SunChild
Moderator Posts: 3712
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 12, 2013 04:45 AM
My 'sister' is transgendered. FTM. 'She' is now a 'He'. I have three young children so I'll have the task to tell them about his gender because my eldest already has noticed the fact that his gender is not clear. Transitioning includes hormone treatment, he is growing facial hair but still looks somewhat female. My daughter is ready to know. She is nearly 6. She knows that my brother ('she') is becoming a 'he.' and the reasons why. She accepts more easily than other adults do. I don't really know any fancy ways to describe these adult things to young children, I just tell it how it is. Children are very accepting, they adopt and imitate our opinions and world views, so just be an example, so, for a three year old the less intimate descriptions, the better it is. Tell her in pictorial form or tell a story. Be creative. For an older child, you can be more frank. IP: Logged |
SunChild
Moderator Posts: 3712
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 12, 2013 04:58 AM
My brother wanted me to share his pic with you all and is available to answer any questions anyone has. FTM  IP: Logged |
somethingexcellent
Knowflake Posts: 613
From: a red, dead scorpion
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted March 12, 2013 05:00 AM
^Before or during transitioning (I guess now too, if he's still in the process), has he ever experienced dysphoria? What was it like, if so? IP: Logged |
SunChild
Moderator Posts: 3712
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 12, 2013 05:38 AM
*During. (he is typing his response. be with you shortly.) IP: Logged |
Xiiro
Moderator Posts: 1494
From: San Diego CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted March 12, 2013 06:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SunChild:
My brother wanted me to share his pic with you all and is available to answer any questions anyone has. FTM
Umm you're brother is a stud.
that is all
To the OP:
"She's our waitress/a person, and that's all you should worry about," I prefer this response personally. I would replace "that's all you should worry about" though with, "do people have to be just a boy or just a girl? if yes, why?"
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Venus
Moderator Posts: 1681
From:
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted March 12, 2013 06:03 PM
He's good looking SunChild.Children should ask "difficult" questions, it's the only time they can get away with it imo..
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mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 1299
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted March 13, 2013 09:25 AM
Absolutely!I welcome questions and observations, but I hate to make others feel awkward or ashamed. I think that when my oldest was very young, we handled the inevitable yelled question/observation, "WHY IS THAT LADY SO FAT?? SHE'S REALLY BIG! WHY IS SHE SO FAT?"
My answer: "People come in all different shapes and sizes - isn't that neat? Wouldn't it be boring if we all looked the same?"
Of course, the next time we saw a very large person, she yelled, "THAT LADY'S FAT, BUT THAT'S OK BECAUSE WE ALL COME IN DIFFERENT SHAPES AND SIZES, RIGHT?"
...she has a Gemini Stellium and an Aries Merc. Thinking about it, maybe I should have just answered (for the first situation), "Isn't it neat that everyone looks different than everyone else?"...
...but, then, maybe not.
That may have made her feel worse. Lexx - I assumed that she was MtF because she, at that point, looked like a young man in drag and had to consciously pitch-shift her voice (she slipped on a word or two).
She may have been a transvestite, but the (admittedly few) transvestites I've known usually handle questions/kids better.
Our server hid in the kitchen until we were gone - another server finished us up, but I saw her through the kitchen door window a few times, so I don't think she was just on break.
It still bothers me that we made her feel so awkward  SunChild - Your brother is quite handsome  IP: Logged |
mockingbird
Knowflake Posts: 1299
From:
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted March 13, 2013 09:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Xiiro:
"She's our waitress/a person, and that's all you should worry about," I prefer this response personally. I would replace "that's all you should worry about" though with, "do people have to be just a boy or just a girl? if yes, why?"
That's actually the direction I went in when I explained it to her in private 
Kids at that age are so into categorizing, though - for a while, she called a young women "C----s" (my name)...I was flattered 
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hippichick
Moderator Posts: 2350
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted March 13, 2013 11:09 AM
I have always been terribly honest with my daughters, age appropriate, of course.I didnt even want to start the Santa Clause and Easter Bunny thing, but was forced to per their paternal grandmother. It just seemed so dumb to me to make these figures real then, one day, say "just kidding!" Anyway, honesty with a child is paramount, again age appropriate, and speaking to a child in a way they can understand. I remember back in the 60's and 70's, it was more sarcasim then, (Bob Segar "Is that a woman or a man?" ), well society is kind of thrown back on itself now, because those dumb questions of the hippie age are now real questions!!! My grandma always said she did not like the (hippy) men with long hair, but she never tried to hide or sugar coat it, told me like it was.... IP: Logged |
hippichick
Moderator Posts: 2350
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted March 13, 2013 01:13 PM
By the way, my eldest daughter is gay.I find it so friggin funny, idiotic and just plain annoying when she enters a woman's restroom and gets looked at.. She has been questioned if she is a he. She is not trans, has no intent to be so, she is of a tall, lean build and wears her hair short. I want to scream at those folks who question her appearance! Once, I did: "really? she has high cheek bones, a VERY femanine face and (a woman's chest bumps) !!!!"  IP: Logged |
somethingexcellent
Knowflake Posts: 613
From: a red, dead scorpion
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted March 15, 2013 12:39 AM
quote:
SunChild: (he is typing his response. be with you shortly.)
Like 23088475893 days later 
JOKING!! IP: Logged | |
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