posted April 08, 2013 03:09 PM            

I really didn't have any female role models growing up. My mom was insane for a while among other things. At a very young age I liked things that for whatever reason were considered to be "for boys" and of course disliked things that were considered "for girls". I thought I had to choose one or the other. I thought I had to pick male or female. There were times when I actually wanted to feel more girly but was afraid to express it because it made me feel very vulnerable and weak. I think for a long time I was sexist against my own sex. I wondered if I was a boy trapped in a girl's body. I didn't think that to be the case. My family said "you should have been born a boy". I wished for that as well. There were many times when I would play sports with guys and another female would want to play and I wouldn't want her to because, "she's a girl, she's going to suck".

Flash forward to now at the age of 26 and I have grown up a bit. I do not want to live life just to avoid being vulnerable. I have since met many different women who are strong, capable, great role models. I do not want to live my entire life trying to avoid becoming my mother. You get the idea. Many of my sexist ideas were the same as feminist ideas. It's just that...they only applied to me and other women were just a sea of pink. I can relate a lot to aquaguy's posts actually. It didn't hit me until a few years ago just how much I let my parents rule my life and my ideas on gender roles.

Now, I am reading about more about these issues. I am excited to learn. (Once again, I already had all of those same viewpoints for myself and interestingly some of the opposing ones too for other more feminine women haha.) That is embarrassing to admit.

For me, I am just very disturbed when certain things are described as "male" and other things are described as "female". (I guess I was secretly part of the problem.)

I am happy for the change in myself. I know I have to keep working at it or else my need to protect myself will close my mind. And this applies to more than male-female roles. Any type of stereotype really. The amount of times I used to say "gay" as an adjective for something is way too much.

posted April 08, 2013 04:10 PM            

I've always been anti attributing any specific gender societal biases to myself or others. Societal conditioning is something that's apart of many cultures, nature vs nurture, but I think it's important as a society for us to continually evolve and grow as a people, and try to separate ourselves from these limiting concepts and ideas.

My parents are conservative in their lifestyle choices because of our ethnic culture, but they are both very intellectually open minded individuals. They never preached or intentionally pushed societal ideas of how women or men should act upon my siblings and I which I appreciated. I grew up thinking and believing that all people were on the same playing, men and women were equals, all humans were equals and I learned a harsh lesson in the real world about how untrue that was. I've grown to learn it's going to take time for society to change, and like you I just live to be apart of that change, continually working towards separating myself from limiting ideas and concepts.

posted April 08, 2013 08:23 PM            

I got shunned by the girls in my neighborhood between ages 6-10 (because my parents weren't liked by them or their parents and also because I had the Barbies act a little TOO dysfunctional, including with profanity I heard the 'rents say a lot, which possibly got the parents to tell the girls to exclude me) and was thus forced to socialize almost exclusively with boys (in my neighborhood anyway) and that certainly pushed me to some masculine traits (though I did get sick of boy games all the time, got one boy in trouble when I convinced him to play dress up with me, and felt tremendous relief when a girl moved near me that I was able to bond with and relate to...though her chart was similar to mine yet she was mostly feminine, though her sun was Scorpio instead of Libra, and I don't know her ascendant). Because I was athletic in Texas heat (and rode in back of trucks and in cars with windows down) I preferred to keep my hair short. Granny would girl me up (longer hair, dresses, etc) when she could. I had delayed puberty and remained physically androgynous until my early 20s when I filled out a little and was also convinced to go all girly which was fun at first, and even when I tired of it I still found it too useful to abandon completely.

And I'm currently the one who takes care of the car (though my partner does most of the driving as I hate that), computers, electronics, yard, teach the kids sports and the boy lightsaber combat, practice archery & shooting, and I'm said to be very good with tools and easily assemble furniture and also a bicycle for my boy once. Yet at the same time I do a lot of the cooking & cleaning, take care of the kids, teach the girl how to use makeup, host guests, and my primary money making endeavors over the years come from sewing and entertaining birthday girls. I also tend to have feminine taste in media (with the notable exception of vampires, I very much want them to be scary instead of romantic). I'm sexually versatile. I'm whatever is needed at the time without a preference. Needless to say there's no easy answer for those who ask which of us "is the guy." (I'd add about my partner but I don't think she'd appreciate me sharing details about her.)

As for myself, I just see me as me, not as being "fluid" or anything like that. I reject the entire binary paradigm, at least for myself. If others want to live up to the stereotype, then have fun, just don't try to push it on me. I didn't even allow gender norms to be pushed on me (too much anyway) back when I was in school, I'm certainly not now as an adult.

posted April 08, 2013 09:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I reject the entire binary paradigm, at least for myself. If others want to live up to the stereotype, then have fun, just don't try to push it on me. I didn't even allow gender norms to be pushed on me (too much anyway) back when I was in school, I'm certainly not now as an adult.

Besides, gender norms are variable.

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I share this philosophy. I'm also mostly masculine signs in my chart and cardinal signs.

posted April 11, 2013 12:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
I completely understand where you're coming from and I think it's wonderful that you've decided to disassociate yourself from many of the gender biases in our society that hurt and limit both men and women.

I've always been anti attributing any specific gender societal biases to myself or others. Societal conditioning is something that's apart of many cultures, nature vs nurture, but I think it's important as a society for us to continually evolve and grow as a people, and try to separate ourselves from these limiting concepts and ideas.

My parents are conservative in their lifestyle choices because of our ethnic culture, but they are both very intellectually open minded individuals. They never preached or intentionally pushed societal ideas of how women or men should act upon my siblings and I which I appreciated. I grew up thinking and believing that all people were on the same playing, men and women were equals, all humans were equals and I learned a harsh lesson in the real world about how untrue that was. I've grown to learn it's going to take time for society to change, and like you I just live to be apart of that change, continually working towards separating myself from limiting ideas and concepts.

I'm a strong person, does that make me more masculine and less feminine, NO. It makes me human. I really can't stand gender stereotypes, at all or any form of cultural or societal stereotyping. I have no patience for it.

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posted April 11, 2013 12:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
So as for me...my chart is almost completely masculine (split between Sag & Libra, and I have a Leo ascendant), which might explain some traits in my life. It's possible my last incarnation was that of a male pirate.

I got shunned by the girls in my neighborhood between ages 6-10 (because my parents weren't liked by them or their parents and also because I had the Barbies act a little TOO dysfunctional, including with profanity I heard the 'rents say a lot, which possibly got the parents to tell the girls to exclude me) and was thus forced to socialize almost exclusively with boys (in my neighborhood anyway) and that certainly pushed me to some masculine traits (though I did get sick of boy games all the time, got one boy in trouble when I convinced him to play dress up with me, and felt tremendous relief when a girl moved near me that I was able to bond with and relate to...though her chart was similar to mine yet she was mostly feminine, though her sun was Scorpio instead of Libra, and I don't know her ascendant). Because I was athletic in Texas heat (and rode in back of trucks and in cars with windows down) I preferred to keep my hair short. Granny would girl me up (longer hair, dresses, etc) when she could. I had delayed puberty and remained physically androgynous until my early 20s when I filled out a little and was also convinced to go all girly which was fun at first, and even when I tired of it I still found it too useful to abandon completely.

And I'm currently the one who takes care of the car (though my partner does most of the driving as I hate that), computers, electronics, yard, teach the kids sports and the boy lightsaber combat, practice archery & shooting, and I'm said to be very good with tools and easily assemble furniture and also a bicycle for my boy once. Yet at the same time I do a lot of the cooking & cleaning, take care of the kids, teach the girl how to use makeup, host guests, and my primary money making endeavors over the years come from sewing and entertaining birthday girls. I also tend to have feminine taste in media (with the notable exception of vampires, I very much want them to be scary instead of romantic). I'm sexually versatile. I'm whatever is needed at the time without a preference. Needless to say there's no easy answer for those who ask which of us "is the guy." (I'd add about my partner but I don't think she'd appreciate me sharing details about her.)

As for myself, I just see me as me, not as being "fluid" or anything like that. I reject the entire binary paradigm, at least for myself. If others want to live up to the stereotype, then have fun, just don't try to push it on me. I didn't even allow gender norms to be pushed on me (too much anyway) back when I was in school, I'm certainly not now as an adult.

Besides, gender norms are variable. No one accuses Jesus of being less a man for having wept or being portrayed with long hair. Chefs work in the kitchen but no one accuses them of being girly (and I bet more than a few men respect, perhaps even admire, Gordon Ramsay). Lady Sovereign curses, belches, and spits on stage (and seems dressed very masculine every time I've seen her in a pic or vid) but I never heard anyone say she's not a woman. (Though I remember my cousin once saying how East Texans hated men who grew their hair long and yet still loved the country singers with a long mane...so maybe celebrities get a bit of a pass then.) It all seems so arbitrary to me (but then a lot of social policing is, depending more on who you are and/or who you do it to than what you do).

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I also agree with what you are saying. I guess for a long time I felt different from other females and so my ego basically came up with this idea that I was more..."manly" or whatever than them and also any adjective you can associate with the stereotype of a man....so I sometimes played into the sexism to feel better about myself I think. Kind of ridiculous. I had a limited scope. Even now I am often very different from other women but I can see that doesn't mean I have to construct some gender based differences to protect myself from them.